"Cheaters for Salmon"??

[dickbaker]

    Ok!  I think I will try a cheater or two off my downriggers this spring?   Does anyone have a simple way to attach them to the downrigger rod.    I'm really afraid that a salmon on the upper lure will lead to a big tangle when the fish and the lower lure come to the surface??
Any advice will be appreciated?

Thanks, Dick

[Perchbait]

My Dad and I usually just make a leader, about 3 feet long, with a clip on one side and a snap-swivel on the other. We then put our lines down to the desired depth, let out a little extra line to put a bow in it, and attach the cheater. As far as tangles go, there all a part of the game. Small risk with BIG rewards.

[boondox]

I use around 15 to 20 foot for the leaders here are some diagrams of them you really need a double clamp release with a a clasp to hook to the down rigger cable  wire you can run two to three lures with a fixed cheater and a slider lure seen in these diagrams so pay attention to local laws... like our laws we could only run 3 lures per two rods or two lures per 3 rods..  hope these help out..

[boondox]

By the way one thd fish hit grab the rod and reel fast depending were it hits at..   to get it out of the first and second release if you don't reel line really fast till your tight aginst fish you might lose fish.. and having like we do 75 down in between the slider and cheater maybe 40 foot trying to recover all of it tIll on last spoon or rig 90 foot or so of reeling really fast.. till tight on the fish ..

[Mac Attack]

We used to use a fixed cheater with a 4-6' leader and a flutter spoon of some sort.
We used a #4 rubber band to fix the snap swivel to the downrigger cable.
The same snap swivel was attached to the line on the downrigger rod.
When the fish hit the cheater the rubber band would break and the snap swivel would slide down the line to the bottom release with the main lure.
After the main release would let go, the cheater snap swivel continued down the line to the main lure and you fought the fish.
Set back of the main lure and also how high you stacked the cheater before attaching it to the cable with the rubber band all added to the length the cheater had to travel before the fish came up tight on things.  This added to time where the fish could shake the hook.
Of course, there was no leverage.
In any event, we typically stacked the cheater 10 foot above the main release and kept our main lure drop back to only 8-10 feet or so.
Also, sharp hooks are a must!!!

[dickbaker]

   Early in the year will there be enough of a bow in the line if the ball is only down 15 or 20 feet?
Dick

[boondox]

How deeps the lake/river your fishing on avarge? Or are you doing the shallow spring haunts were there up high in the shallow water in the spring cause it is so cold now?  I looking at the 15 to 20 foot like your fishing up high? If so shallow divers 100 to 200 back on planer boards should work magic..if trying down riggers use a rubber band like attack suggest.  This is were down riggers I don't use much of in spring cause fish are so high up just line counter reel and mOno attached to planer board..

[Mac Attack]

  Early in the year will there be enough of a bow in the line if the ball is only down 15 or 20 feet?
Dick

If the ball is only down 15-20 feet your cheater will be only 5-10' from the boat.
(Not doing the trig)

Not sure how many you will catch with the cheater lure that close to the boat.
I've had coho hit that close though.

Typically, when running shallow you need longer leads.
This will make things tougher with sliders or cheaters.


Just food for thought.

[dickbaker]

   OK!  Thanks a lot for the help.   I guess I should wait until May or June  to think about cheaters?
Dick

[boondox]

Bingo on wait to run the cheaters.. if you got line counter reels planner boards are cheap to run.. I suggest braid but you can't always run it the way you want it..cause the pads slide some times on it even with the s shape the clip mfg tells you to run with braid.. but it does cut water better then 30 lb mono so you deside.. check the down loads from precision trolling for the lures you plan to run in spring I bought the book but the lures change from time to time so it better to either down load etc and print.  Etc.. from thier site.  I think down loads are cheaper to the books were selling for $400 last I looked.. and a down load was 3 bucks.. or some thing similar  per lure..

[Fish Farmer]

My Dad and I usually just make a leader, about 3 feet long, with a clip on one side and a snap-swivel on the other. We then put our lines down to the desired depth, let out a little extra line to put a bow in it, and attach the cheater. As far as tangles go, there all a part of the game. Small risk with BIG rewards.

I do the same for Vermont salmon. I do occasionally use fixed cheaters, but when I'm alone, I just throw on sliding cheaters.

Dick, are you going to be fishing Champlain landlocks this spring? I've run riggers down 5 feet and 5 feet back WITH verticle blades and had salmon hit right behind the boat and clear the water. So if I run 15 to 20 feet anytime, spring or fall, I throw on a cheater. It may be just below the surface, but it is another lure in the water.

I never seem to have tangles, except when netting and getting both rigs in the boat where they can catch on things. If I'm not using a lighter leader, which some fisherman do, I don't have a barrel swivel several feet up from the main lure so my cheater slides all the way down to the main lure. A cheater caught fish would wind up all the way at the end of the line and a main lure caught fish would have the cheater lure trailing behind.

[dickbaker]

   I've always run 4 ft of Dave Davis spinners directly of the balls with release 2 ft. above the ball.   Ive also considered them horizontal because thinking that the cable was vertical and the water surface horizontal?      When the salmon are near the surface I often set the lure or bait 5 to 15 ft deep and 10 to 15 back.   Exciting when a  salmon's first jump is directly beside the boat      

When a salmon hits the cheater does it often release the bottom lure?    I'm still trying to anticipate 15 to 20 ft. of leaders coming together at netting time??    

Dick

[Fish Farmer]

So it looks like you run your blades straight off the ball. I run mine from the ball  up to the the lure release. Same results, different approach.

I  usually don't run any thinner leader off my main line like flurocarbon, which some guys do. I think I have 10 to 12 lbs mono right to the lure so there are no stops for a slider to hit while fighting a fish.

If you do run a heavy line, then a swivel, then a thin leader, your slider will stop at that leader so you may see wrap around. I would probably run a 10 foot main leader and a 3 foot cheater leader, so the lure stays above the lower lure during a fight with a fish on the lower lure. The upper lure would also come to boat before the fish does. You don't want too long a leader in this case since you wont be able to reel in a cheater stopped far up if the fish is still 20 feet out on the main lure, unless you quickly clip off the lure and are able to reel your swivel into your rod.

I have had problems with fish hitting the cheater and not releasing the bottom lure. I think this has happened more with sliding cheaters than fixed, since they have more room to move. I can usually grab the rod and release with a tug. Many times I can tell if the fish hit the cheater and I'm usually grabbing the rod anyway to check and start reeling until I feel the fish.

[dickbaker]

 ???Any good recommendations for best spread in mid to late April when salmon are in top 10 feet?  In the past I've trolled two flat lines and two lead core (1 color and two colors).
Dick

[boondox]

 

When a salmon hits the cheater does it often release the bottom lure?    I'm still trying to anticipate 15 to 20 ft. of leaders coming together at netting time??    

Dick

Not always that why you reel down pop the release and reel again tI'll you got good hook up with fish.. of course that a lake michigan type leader that 15 to 20 foot out of the clips cause are trout spook real easy..If your trout don't spook that easy go with the short leads.. go with what works.. German brown are real flighty and spook real easy there is thousands  of them in some areas  and other fish follow what they do.. so it makes for harder fishing.. cause they maybe the dominate species.. that's why the m-dnr planted them.