Deep cycle charger comparison

[gundogwanted]

I'm looking to get a new charger for my trolling motor batteries. (Two batteries, two boats). I am looking at either the NOCO genius g15000 or the BatteryMinder 12248 or the updated 128CEC1. I currently have an older Exide that has the pulse technology, it takes a long time to charge a 50% draw down with the pulse.   I was looking for more of a constant current to about 75% than cut back to slower amperage. NOCO claims a 2% battery will be charged in about 3 to 4 hours. Just looking for some input on any of these. Not looking for an onboard, mostly for moving it from one boat to the other.

[stripernut]

This info is not about what brand of charger, but what type;
I worked as the Customer Service Manger for ProMariner for years and have worked with many of the Battery Companies setting up charging analogs... Here is some info I hope you find helpful;

In the past couple decades, battery charging technology has advanced. The older technology used for charging batteries was a Ferro-Resonant (FR) charger, often called a trickle charger. This type of charger is still very common in the automotive industry. These chargers work by charging at a constant output of 13.8 volts and as the batteries are charged the amperage drops. At 13.8 volts the batteries will charge the first 75% fairly quickly, but the last 25% takes a long time, as the amps trickle in. The closer it gets to being fully charged the slower it chargers. Holding a lead acid battery at 13.8 volt for long periods gases out the batteries, so electrolytes (distilled water) needs constant replacement. If the electrolytes are not replaced the cells will run dry and the lead plates will warp and cause a short, destroying the battery. All the major battery manufacturers recommend against using FR battery chargers. #

The style of charger that all the major battery manufacturers recommend is a stepped or multi staged charger. The new stepped chargers charge at a higher voltage and as the batteries become charged, the voltage drops to a lower level.  Most all lead acid/ AGM battery manufactures call for their batteries to be charged at about 14.6 volts. At this voltage range batteries will charge quickly, fully and help to de-sulfate the batteries.  As batteries discharges sulfates builds up on the plates and make a barrier that current cannot flow through. With a higher voltage the sulfate is “knocked” off the plates. A gentle bubbling you see when a lead acid battery is charging is helping to knock the sulfates off the plates. Some chargers even have an equalization phase that runs in the 15-17 volt range to help bring back badly sulfated batteries. The danger of having an equalization phase is that you must not have anything else hooked up to the batteries during this phase or the high voltage may damage your equipment. It is always important to quickly recharge discharged batteries, the longer a battery sits discharged the harder sulfate becomes, shorting the batteries life.

Battery Types- Lead Acid, AGM and Gel.

Lead acid battery technology has been around for generations. They are made, in the simplest of terms, of sheets of lead hanging in a liquid electrolyte (acid). A well made and well maintained lead acid battery is still the cheapest and longest lasting battery. They do have some disadvantages; lead acid batteries can leak, they need to be checked, filled, mounted upright and self discharge when sitting unused.  Just to mention a few of the things that need to be taken care of. There are sealed lead acid batteries, but they are a poor choice, since the electrolyte can not be replaced, if any is vented out, as all “sealed” batteries are vented.

The first common alternative to the standard lead acid battery was Gel battery. The electrolyte in the battery is turned into a Gel and sealed, but still vented. This eliminates many of the problems of standard lead acid batteries. With Gel batteries there is nothing to fill and they can be mounted in any direction. One of the biggest differences of a Gel battery is that it must be charged differently from other batteries and should not be charged over 14.1 vols. If it is charged at much more than that, cracks can develop in the Gel and the battery will no longer work.

The newest common battery (lead acid) technology to come alone is AGMs, which stands for “Absorbent Glass Mat”. This type of battery comes in two forms; with first manufacturing method, the lead plates are rolled up with a layer of fiberglass like material, so that it looks like a jelly roll to make each cell, giving the battery the “six Pack” look. The second type has the same configuration as standard a lead acid battery, but between each of the layers of lead is the fiberglass like material. In both styles the fiberglass like material is semi saturated with electrolyte, eliminating battery leakage. With each style of manufacturing the layers are compressed and kept under pressure. Some advantages are; unused they discharging very slowly, they are highly vibration resistant, and in some cases can be recharged and discharged faster than any other batteries. This technology has make Gel batteries obsolete.

Please note there is a great deal of misinformation and confusion in regards to battery types. Almost all Gel Cell batteries will state that they are Gel on the battery housing and they need to be charged at Gel rates. Many AGM batteries that are sold are confused with Gel batteries; AGM batteries are not gel cells. If you have any concerns or questions about the type of battery you have, contact the battery manufacturer.

Hope you find this helpful
Tight Lines
Allan Butler

[gundogwanted]

Striper, I like your read, very good. I am using basic Die hard batteries for both trolling motors, one is a year old, the other, about six. (still works well). As far as replacing the electrolytes, is it common to drain the old completely and add new, or just add if low? All lead is completely covered, so not low. As far as the charger, I am leaning towards the  NOCO genius g15000. it is a 15 amp charger with multiple stages, but would the 15 amps be too much for the battery? Or would the 7 amp be more appropriate? Need something to get me back up between morning and evening fishing.

[Mac Attack]

Striper, I like your read, very good. I am using basic Die hard batteries for both trolling motors, one is a year old, the other, about six. (still works well). As far as replacing the electrolytes, is it common to drain the old completely and add new, or just add if low? All lead is completely covered, so not low. As far as the charger, I am leaning towards the  NOCO genius g15000. it is a 15 amp charger with multiple stages, but would the 15 amps be too much for the battery? Or would the 7 amp be more appropriate? Need something to get me back up between morning and evening fishing.

The current will throttle back as the battery gets closer to being charged, requiring less amperage to do the job.
Stay with the 15 amp as it will shorten your charging cycles.

Also, even though this appears to be a decent charger, do not "poopoo" the idea of an on-board charger.
I used an on-board for over a year between multiple batteries before finally mounting it inside my boat.
Just a thought.

Lastly, I would never drain the electrolyte and add new.
Disposing of the old electrolyte would be hazardous waste.
I simply add distilled water to my batteries.
Not tap water - there's minerals in tap water that will harm the battery.

Mac

[stripernut]

Attack is right don't drain the battery!
15 amps is great, the battery actually dictates the amp draw, not the charger. A charger drives voltage and only makes the amperage available to the battery. I personally like to have at least 10 amps available (more is better) per battery, the battery charges fast and the charger is not working as hard... Now when I say "more is better" I want to qualify that. You can use a 80 amp charger to charge even a small battery, remember, the battery draws the amps it can take. But you don't want to make a habit of doing something like that because if something goes wrong (battery shorts, charger overvoltages) it will be bad with a normal 15 amp charger, but VERY bad with a 80 amp charger... Sounds like you are on the right track with a multi stage charger... My vote would be for a ProMariner charger, but I am bias.

[Mac Attack]

... My vote would be for a ProMariner charger,

 

[gundogwanted]

Stripernut and Attack, thanks for all your info. Although an onboard would be nice, my problem is I have too many boats. LOL.. With that in mind, I am going to stick with a multi stage portable. Most likely the NOCO G15000. Hopefully in the near future I will get an onboard and will then consider the Mariner we discussed here. Thanks again for your assistance.

[Mac Attack]

............... my problem is I have too many boats. LOL..

WHAT!?!?!?

Never.

[lowaccord66]

Nice post Alan.  I use a promariner myself.  Its a cabelas built by them.  2 bank 8 amps.  Inexpensive too.

[Dabluz]

A few years ago, I bought a Schumacher battery charger at Walmart's.  It charges lead-acid, gel and AGM batteries.  It was quite inexpensive.  I bought the model 2, 6, 15 amps.  It's made of plastic, the dial reads in percentage or voltage and is very light.  I guess the transformer is small.  Anyway, it works marvelously.  No more replacing deep cycle batteries.  Yes, I top up the cells on the batteries with distilled water.

[stripernut]

A few years ago, I bought a Schumacher battery charger at Walmart's.  It charges lead-acid, gel and AGM batteries.  It was quite inexpensive.  I bought the model 2, 6, 15 amps.  It's made of plastic, the dial reads in percentage or voltage and is very light.  I guess the transformer is small.  Anyway, it works marvelously.  No more replacing deep cycle batteries.  Yes, I top up the cells on the batteries with distilled water.

This is what you have; The older technology used for charging batteries was a Ferro-Resonant (FR) charger, often called a trickle charger.;

These chargers work by charging at a constant output of 13.8 volts and as the batteries are charged the amperage drops. At 13.8 volts the batteries will charge the first 75% fairly quickly, but the last 25% takes a long time, as the amps trickle in. The closer it gets to being fully charged the slower it chargers. Holding a lead acid battery at 13.8 volt for long periods gases out the batteries, so electrolytes (distilled water) needs constant replacement. If the electrolytes are not replaced the cells will run dry and the lead plates will warp and cause a short, destroying the battery. All the major battery manufacturers recommend against using FR battery chargers. #

[lowaccord66]

Hey Allen or RG...I could use a recommendation in regards to finding a battery with a large enough reserve to keep a 12v minkota with ipilot going alll day.  Initially I was after a 24v system but I found a sweet deal on CL for a 12v unit.  Is my logic in regards to finding a 12v battery with a large reserve correct?

[stripernut]

One big battery or multiple batteries in Parallel... With quality being equal in lead acid batteries; more "weight" more amps (longer run time).

[lowaccord66]

Thanks bud.  I got the unit today for 700 so now I just need my boat back and Ill go battery shopping.  If anyone has a recommendation or a battery brand they really like I want to hear it.  I run 2 diehard marine for my main and accessories which are ok (mounted in the stern).  But being that this next battery will be for the bow maybe a AGM?

[stripernut]

You don't need a AGM unless you are going you Beat on it (like a pounding boat) a lot. Unless you have a special use just go with some good lead acid (not sealed) and take care of them and you will get many years out of them. Keep in mind, most batteries don't die on there own, they are murdered with improper care...  If you want to throw money at it, look at Trojan Batteries, you won't get better.