Summer Trout

[staubsaugen]

While technically not summer, the trout in the Oliver Lake chain have moved into summer mode. Fished twice this week: Saturday evening with a good friend and Monday morning with my nearly 4 year old boy. Saturday was slow slow slow! Finally had a little action just before we left around 10:00pm. Ended with only one rainbow in the boat. Monday shook out much better-landed four rainbows (one of which was clearly a hold over), 2 bass, and one 9 1/4 inch female bluegill spewing eggs. Missed a few trout as well and had one break off at the boat. All fishing was done in 30-50 FOW with worms under slip bobbers usually set at about 20 ft. This year's stockers have put on good growth running about 12-13" now. Surface water temp Sat. 76, Monday 72.  The boy and I also jumped in for a little swim!
Question for those who fish there: do any of you target the brown trout? and if so what techniques do you use?

[taxid]

I think you should have gone a little deeper than 20 feet. Thermocline in the Oliver usually starts at 23 feet. Hence he warm water fish you were catching. Had a guy with me that was catching warm water fish while the rest of us were getting rainbows. Turns out his knot on his slip bobber rig was moving down the line every time he reeled in and he was fishing several feed shallower than the rest of us. I also know from years of experience fishing just after a cold front can seriously reduce your catch at night for trout. Can't explain why but it effects them. I've caught my limit in hot muggy weather and not got a bite after a cold front.

There's also a possibility that even though the summer thermociline has set up, it's not as well defined and narrow as it will be later which concentrates the fish. It's also a good idea to try several places. Sometimes Olin Lake can be hot although being a smaller lake the thermocline will be a little shallower starting at about 18 feet.

Brown trout from my experience in the lake are more bottom oriented while the rainbows are more likely to suspend, but there are exceptions. I would back troll or simply bottom fish the breaks starting at 23 feet for the browns during the day.

[tater140]

So the rainbow stockers are below the thermocline in the summer?  Or right in it?  I'm not sure I was aware of that, I have never targeted them specifically but have always caught a few in Tri lakes while bluegill fishing.

[staubsaugen]

Right in or below the thermocline. The way I understand it maximizing colder temp and dissolved oxygen.

[taxid]

Right in or below the thermocline. The way I understand it maximizing colder temp and dissolved oxygen.

Spot on. As you know it's a layer that has the right temperature and oxygen level for trout and that's primarily the thermocline at least later in the summer. A temperature probe would suddenly show a drop in temperature at some point as it's lowered, and that's the beginning of the thermocline. About 23 feet in Oliver and 18 feet in Olin. Once the temperature stabilizes, that is the end of the thermocline. That suitable thermocline layer becomes narrower and narrower as summer progresses. This can make fishing easier as it concentrates the trout, but if the layer degrades enough in late summer it can be detrimental to the trout. Oliver actually has had a few coldwater fish kills back in the 60's. It would be interesting to know if the switch away from septic tanks has improved the water quality. Anybody know?

And keep in mind the trout in the Oliver Lake Chain are primarily zooplankton feeders and some bottom invertebrates. It would be nice if our DNR would replant or allow an outside party to plant a coldwater forage like smelt, which I'm convinced the lake trout they planted wiped out along with the cisco. A coldwater forage would produce larger, faster growing trout, and longer lived trout. I fear someone is going to take it into their own hands eventually and introduce an exotic along with something bad that could hitchhike along. They could dump in gizzard shad, alewives, or smelt from Lake Michigan. That's how the smelt got started in the first place.

Kudos to the biologists that have pushed to use federal brown trout to stock the chain or whomever else is responsible for that. I know one biologist that was pulling for us just retired. Just wish they could take it step farther and allow the planting of smelt fry from an approved health tested source in Maine I know of.

Enjoy it while you can. I wouldn't be surprised if some pencil pusher bean counter in Indy pushes to end the inland trout program to cut costs. Less and less lakes are being planted. There also seems to be a push in a lot of states to stop planting nonnative species.

Hopefully if Curtis Creek is closed they can take up the slack at another coldwater hatchery.

[staubsaugen]

Would a coldwater forage hang out where the trout are in summer too? Could one plant enough to get a populuation established with so many hungry trout already established? Guessing you would stock them every year as well at least for a while.
Are the browns more tolerant of warmer and less oxygenated water?

[Fishoninct]

Browns do tolerate warm water better than rainbows and brookies.  Don't know about lakers.  I use lead core or downriggers in the summer to target browns.  The places I fish have alewives, so I troll silver spoons.

[taxid]

Would a coldwater forage hang out where the trout are in summer too? Could one plant enough to get a populuation established with so many hungry trout already established? Guessing you would stock them every year as well at least for a while.
Are the browns more tolerant of warmer and less oxygenated water?

Historically according to some INDNR surveys that go back to the 70s, (You can ask for them and read them) the smelt occupied the areas where the trout existed and even much deeper (max depth of lake) where they did not. In fact a biologist by the name of Gulish proposed a combination of brown and lake trout for the lake as he felt the deeper smelt were not being eaten by the browns and rainbows but could be utilized by the lake trout.  He did have chinook salmon planted experimentally. There were a few caught but it was thought many went down stream as one was caught in Dallas Lake.

According to a potential source in Maine, that I contacted via NEITA, when we were hoping to buy and plant smelt, stocking does have to be on a more than one time basis to get them going. IIRR we could get about 50,000 fry Fed Exed overnight and they are about the size of the period at the end of this sentence! However as I stated this has to be with the blessing of the INDNR with proof sent to the smelt source, and we eventually got turned down. The reason given was they are voracious predators on the eggs and fry of native species, but I'm skeptical of that as the only two species that would have eggs and fry in temps the smelt could tolerate are northern pike and yellow perch, which don't make up a significant part of the lake fishery. In fact in the INDNR's own surveys of the lake they downplay the significance of natives species in the lake citing the preponderance of coldwater habitat. My guess is there is pressure from somewhere to not plant an exotic species although technically the trout are an exotic species.

Yes, brown trout are supposed to be more tolerant of marginal water conditions. They are also more piscivorous than rainbows. When I produced my 20 page written proposal to the INDNR to get them to allow an 18 inch size limit on browns in the lake, to enhance their trophy potential, I showed using their own survey reports that brown trout have a better return size wise and survival than rainbow trout in the Lake chain. I can email you a copy if you're interested. It has some interesting history and data that I got from the INDNR.  I can also email anyone that is interested the smelt planting proposal I put together.

With a stocking of only 500 brown trout in 1968 of 8 to 10 inches, brown trout up to 7 lbs. 12 oz. were caught several years later. Of course keep in mind that the smelt and cisco were pretty common back then. Interestingly the smelt and cisco and trout seemed to coexist together just fine. It wasn't until after lake trout were planted that their numbers significantly declined. Maybe a coincidence but I don't believe so. I have seen reports in the northeast part of the country where lake trout can decimate smelt in smaller lakes and reservoirs and have to be periodically replanted. Not so with browns and rainbows.

[taxid]

Browns do tolerate warm water better than rainbows and brookies.  Don't know about lakers.  I use lead core or downriggers in the summer to target browns.  The places I fish have alewives, so I troll silver spoons.

Saw a study from Lake Simcoe in Canada where lake trout, even though they need very cold oxygenated water, can ride out marginal oxygen conditions in late summer by just sulking on the bottom until the lake turns over. Oxygen levels got down to 3 mg/l.

[staubsaugen]

So on my fish finder through the ice and even now there are times that I can clearly "see" what looks like bait fish of some sort relating to the bottom, and often there will be larger fish relating to them.  Any ideas what they could be? I have heard people say they think there still exists a smelt population in the chain, and I have caught fish that puked up what could be smelt, but may well be something else. taxid I think you mentioned in another thread another bait fish called brookside silvers or something like that?

[taxid]

So on my fish finder through the ice and even now there are times that I can clearly "see" what looks like bait fish of some sort relating to the bottom, and often there will be larger fish relating to them.  Any ideas what they could be? I have heard people say they think there still exists a smelt population in the chain, and I have caught fish that puked up what could be smelt, but may well be something else. taxid I think you mentioned in another thread another bait fish called brookside silvers or something like that?

It is possible there still are smelt, and I know one guy that swears he caught a brown that spit some up a few years ago. The trouble is someone needs to save these fish and get them to a biologist to identify them. It would be awesome if they made a come back!

I don't know a lot about Brook Silversides (Labidesthes sicculus) but know the lake has them. The little I do know is they are probably not available to coldwater fish in the summer as they seem to prefer the warmer surface at least in the summer.  From seeing what showed up in a minnow trap at a friends cottage on the east end, there are lots of different types of shiners and at least one species of chub,  and it's possible young yellow perch could be a forage species, although I've never caught many in the lake chain. I don't' remember for sure, but I think I saw some darters too.

And much to my surprise while pulling gill nets with Larry Koza, we were pulling up large Common White suckers that were suspended probably feeding on zooplankton. Was surprised to find out that is not unusual.

I've marked some big fish suspended in the lake and around the two shoals that upon examination with a camera turned out to be common carp. Oliver has some huge carp. Once caught one that could have weighed 25 to 30 lbs. Had only one eye as it was apparently hit with a spear. It had healed over.

[taxid]

we seen some tiny "smelt like" minnows on camera one night in olin. dont know what but they were very deep.  interesting stuff you find laying on bottom.  lol  what bait would you use in a minnow trap if you were after smelt? would it kill minnows to come up from 40ft?

Don't really know. Smelt are usually caught in fine mesh gill nets. Maybe some ground up fish or even tuna from a can? I have trout feed I could hydrate and give you to try.

It would probably kill them to bring them up as smelt are supposed to be very sensitive anyway according to some I've talked to that use them for bait in other states. However the important thing would be to put them in a zip lock bag on ice and get them to a biologist to identify. Larry Koza at Fawn River in Orland would be the man. Hmmm… maybe I need to get out there and do some looking myself...

Crazy think about fish in deep water. A friend was marking fish deep on Clear Lake and dropped the camera. They were a school of gar!

There is a danger if cisco were found it could effect the trout program and give someone an excuse to terminate it. That happened on Crooked in Whitley county I believe?

[zwiggles]

Smelt have an adipose fin like trout which I believe makes them easy to recognize among baitfish.

[taxid]

Smelt have an adipose fin like trout which I believe makes them easy to recognize among baitfish.

Yep.

[netminder34]

we seen some tiny "smelt like" minnows on camera one night in olin. dont know what but they were very deep.  interesting stuff you find laying on bottom.  lol  what bait would you use in a minnow trap if you were after smelt? would it kill minnows to come up from 40ft?

Smelt are often caught on Wax Worms, Spikes and Wigglers(Mayfly larva) where I fish them in Michigan.  Yes, people do fish for them other ways then just with a net, LOL.  I say that because I get asked that a lot with weird looks on faces.  They do feed during the day but most fish them at night, under light which attracts the micro organisms they will school around.