MyFishFinder Forum

MFF US Northeast => New York => Topic started by: fishgalore on Oct 29, 2011, 08:22 PM

Title: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 29, 2011, 08:22 PM
This thread is for those who would like to continue any dialogue on the topic noted above. The purpose of which is merely to learn, share and educate one another on how to better to understand the species O Mykiss:which includes the Skamanian & Washington strains of Steelhead and Domestic Rainbow Trout.

I'm also starting it so that the Oswego report thread can be used for the purpose for which it was started and not see it get clogged up with this discussion.

Additionally, I would like to recommend the book An Entirely Synthetic Fish written by Anders Halverson concerning the subject of how Rainbow Trout beguiled America and overran the world. Here is a link to his website for anyone interested in his book:- http://syntheticfish.com/

Like me, you'll have to read the book to find out what that means exactly, but he covers much of the history and origins of the species from what I have gathered from some reviews and excerpts.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Dark Cloud on Oct 29, 2011, 08:32 PM
Im "the glass is full" kinda guy but I see bad things in the forecast for this one...
 
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9112/persistentfail.jpg)

Just trying to lighten things up a bit...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Jimmy on Oct 29, 2011, 08:33 PM
Thats hilarious, Dark Cloud.  Mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 29, 2011, 08:34 PM
great  thread  fishglore   and  i  have  your   first  guestion  ....  i  notice  you  have  a Pequest river  rainbow      my  guestion  is    this  ,  do  you  know  if   just   rainbows    are  stocked  there  or   a  steelhead  strain  too  ????(i  ask  for  a  reason  and  your  picture  has  nothing  to  do  with  it)

I guess I have some research to do since I'm not certain. The Pequest hatchery is right near the spot where I caught that female in December of '09 in a light snow storm. I'll go on the NJDEP site and see what I can find. My guess though would be a Rainbow and not Steelhead.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 29, 2011, 08:40 PM
Im "the glass is full" kinda guy but I see bad things in the forecast for this one...
 
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9112/persistentfail.jpg)

Just trying to lighten things up a bit...

Maybe you'll see that I'm a slow learner...............I hope that participants on this thread would contribute their findings on the subject, whatever that may be. The hope is that your here because you want to engage on the subject. All hijacking is prohibited............LOL only kidding. I'm no moderator and I don't own this thread so have fun boys. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Oct 29, 2011, 08:47 PM
so which one is trying to jump the dam in oswego in june  ???
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 29, 2011, 08:56 PM
great  thread  fishglore   and  i  have  your   first  guestion  ....  i  notice  you  have  a Pequest river  rainbow      my  guestion  is    this  ,  do  you  know  if   just   rainbows    are  stocked  there  or   a  steelhead  strain  too  ????(i  ask  for  a  reason  and  your  picture  has  nothing  to  do  with  it)

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/peqsum11.htm (http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/peqsum11.htm)  3 types are stocked. Rainbows, Brook & Browns. No Strain is noted.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 09:34 PM

i  have  seen  this    alot   of  places   ....  this  is  why  i  have  come  to  the  conclusion   coloration  and   body  shape   are  not  a  effective  way   of    knowing   what  kind  of  fish  you  are  dealing  with  .


Well.... without testing their DNA ... what else to you have ? 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: pike46 on Oct 29, 2011, 09:35 PM
I'm a Pike Fisherman. And have done lots of trout fishing through the catskills for years.....have fished salmon river handful of times got a couple big steelhead. So dumb question for the pros...if you stocked regular stream rainbows and browns into Ontario, would they grow to steelhead proportions?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 09:38 PM
http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/Definition.html (http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/Definition.html)

the outward physical manifestation of
internally coded, inheritable, information.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 There are two parts to this definition ...
 PHENOTYPE
This is the "outward, physical manifestation" of the organism. These are the physical parts, the sum of the atoms, molecules, macromolecules, cells, structures, metabolism, energy utilization, tissues, organs, reflexes and behaviors; anything that is part of the observable structure, function or behavior of a living organism.

GENOTYPE

This is the "internally coded, inheritable information" carried by all living organisms. This stored information is used as a "blueprint" or set of instructions for building and maintaining a living creature. These instructions are found within almost all cells (the "internal" part), they are written in a coded language (the genetic code), they are copied at the time of cell division or reproduction and are passed from one generation to the next ("inheritable"). These instructions are intimately involved with all aspects of the life of a cell or an organism. They control everything from the formation of protein macromolecules, to the regulation of metabolism and synthesis.
 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 09:40 PM
I'm a Pike Fisherman. And have done lots of trout fishing through the catskills for years.....have fished salmon river handful of times got a couple big steelhead. So dumb question for the pros...if you stocked regular stream rainbows and browns into Ontario, would they grow to steelhead proportions?
YES ... Domestic rainbows are basicly the same as trout stocked in streams
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: pike46 on Oct 29, 2011, 10:07 PM
Thanks Esox. that makes sense . The esopus holds the occasional 10-15 lb bow, that run out of the ashokan. I fish SAcandaga lake..A pike, walleye, bass fishery. Then they began to stock bows and browns. They are now in the 4-6 lb range..and run in the creeks....I suppose if the lake was deeper and cooler they would run larger
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Oct 29, 2011, 10:29 PM
For the folks who are having an issue reading. we'll go to pictures again.
What is this?

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010137.jpg)
Domestic Rainbow.. Say it Class D-O-M-E-S-T-I-C  R-A-I-N-B-O-W.. Very Good Class!

What is this? Well??

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010129.jpg)
Its A Steelhead.. VERY GOOD Now Say it S-T-E-E-L-H-E-A-D.. Very good!!

Again ok

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010062.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010064.jpg)
DOMSETIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010002-4.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011344.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011345.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010003-1.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011299.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P10111245.jpg)
Class dissmissed!
you need More OK!!
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/feb16101-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010008.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/RSSTHEAD.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010116.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_007.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_008.jpg)
OK GOING BACK TO THE DOMESTIC RAINBOWS, DON'T BLINK!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Bow2.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/bow3.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010115.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA050005-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA250012.jpg)
END OF STORY!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: pike46 on Oct 29, 2011, 10:36 PM
I caught a 14lb domestic rainbow/steelhead. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: pike46 on Oct 29, 2011, 10:40 PM
Domestic trout, steelhead are the exact same species.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 10:55 PM
Domestic trout, steelhead are the exact same species.
Yes they are....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: pike46 on Oct 29, 2011, 11:02 PM
Would love to cross a steelhead with a pike! Now that would be a fish!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 11:30 PM
I say basicly meaning that they are not from an Anadromous strain of rainbow trout...........
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 29, 2011, 11:38 PM
Would love to cross a steelhead with a pike! Now that would be a fish!
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071114-taimen-mongolia.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071114-taimen-mongolia.html)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Stormy_NY on Oct 30, 2011, 12:38 AM
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071114-taimen-mongolia.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071114-taimen-mongolia.html)

50 year old fish ..... They need Sen Barclay over there...  Very cool video
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Oct 30, 2011, 07:06 AM
everyone has a theory. In one article i read was the hatchery's have cross bread the differant strains for so many years they all are almost the same fish but it also depends on where they got there brood stock from.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 08:24 AM
50 year old fish ..... They need Sen Barclay over there...  Very cool video
I wonder if he's going to buy Leto island !! :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: It's strange trying to figure whats going on there... the cost to repair that bridge leading property has to be to huge for a private individual to afford... No road access would kill the property value or dramatically lower it... I've been wondering if someone connected to the government.. wasn't trying to squeeze the current owner out of the property for a steal... Could  be the CITY doing it for all I know....

NOTE.... This is all speculation on my part... It's kind of strange whats going on over there ... I seems to me the owner or new owner would have to be connected to the government in order to negotiate the  red tape and acquire the political money to make it affordable.. I also heard It was classified as BROWN FIELD...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 08:26 AM
and  thats  the  thing  esox  they  all  have  to  be  anadromous   or  they  wouldn't   come  back  into  the  streams  to  spawn  then  return  to  the  lake!  even  the  "domestics"  are  acting  like the  steelhead  ...add  to this  it  happens  everywhere  ...good  example  are  the  finger  lakes ....

as  we   look  at  the  fish  in  different  locations   around  the  country  we  can  clearly  see   fish  the  "look"  like  what  we  commonly call steelhead    were  the  steelhead  strain  was  never  introduced! 

i  find  this  fascinating  and  i  personally  want  to learn  more, i  want  to  know  is  it  a  mix  up in  the  genes    at  the hatcherys   or  is  it  simples  a  change  all  O mykiss  can  go  threw  .... 

theres  really  some  interesting  things  here  and  truth  i  don't  think theres  a  100%  sure  answer  .......
By manipulating the Rainbows to spawn in the fall would be helpful in keeping them from interbreeding with the steelhead..
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 08:47 AM
and  thats  the  thing  esox  they  all  have  to  be  anadromous   or  they  wouldn't   come  back  into  the  streams  to  spawn  then  return  to  the  lake!  even  the  "domestics"  are  acting  like the  steelhead  ...add  to this  it  happens  everywhere  ...good  example  are  the  finger  lakes ....
Not really ..... If you look at the defenition of  Andromous Our steelhead do not live in the ocean.... But the strain they came from DOES !!

Also the term Domestic Rainbow... the term domestic comes from the fact that the stocked fish come from a captively raised broodstock. Our  Stocked steelhead come from wild fish that live in the lake and run the rivers and then collected.



http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt10.pdf (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt10.pdf)
 (Domestic). A captive broodstock which
reaches maturity in a hatchery, regardless of the
source of the eggs that they were derived from.

W (Wild). A broodstock which spends a
significant amount of time and achieve most
growth in a lake or river, including both fish from
natural reproduction as well as feral fish stocked
at an earlier life stage. Adult fish may be held in
captivity for several weeks or months until eggs
are ready to be stripped.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 30, 2011, 08:52 AM
By manipulating the Rainbows to spawn in the fall would be helpful in keeping them from interbreeding with the steelhead..

I have to go to work so I'll be back on in 2 or 3 days but the problem with that Scott is that they don't just spawn once they can do it over a period of months. It's not fool proof or if you like spawn proof!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 08:54 AM
I have to go to work so I'll be back on in 2 or 3 days but the problem with that Scott is that they don't just spawn once they can do it over a period of months. It's not fool proof or if you like spawn proof!!
I said it would  HELP... not that it was 100%bullet proof.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 08:55 AM
 I wonder why our rainbows would be clasified as anadromous ?? If they didn't come from an anadromous strain??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_migration   (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_migration)
Potamodromous.

Truly migratory fishes whose migrations occur wholly within freshwater. (From [potamos], river ... ) ... [Rarely used[1]. This term and oceanodromous received the fishes excluded by the narrowing of anadromous and catadromous]
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 09:33 AM
I have to go to work so I'll be back on in 2 or 3 days but the problem with that Scott is that they don't just spawn once they can do it over a period of months. It's not fool proof or if you like spawn proof!!
and If DR's start to spawn in October till December.... They are still seperated by a 3 month period of time having the coldest water temperatures of the year...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Oct 30, 2011, 09:45 AM
Give up Bro, he's not getting it..(http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15442.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)(http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-10181.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)(http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-11513.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Dark Cloud on Oct 30, 2011, 09:59 AM
 ..... did  you know  at  one  time   steelhead  sperm  was  used  in  the  medical  fields  as  a  anti  cloguant??

Lets keep this clean and about fishing. I dont want to hear about what people do behind closed doors...  :w00t: :w00t: :whistling: :whistling: ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 10:01 AM
thats  not  always  the   case,   a  hatchery  raised  domestic     can  spawn  in  oct     or  nov  and   again  spawn   in  early  spring!  ...... the  reason  why   all  this  is  so  very  very  important  and  why   they  are  starting  to  study  with  DNA markers  has  to  do  with  the  facts  that   the   natural  steelhead  population  is  dwindling!   it  is  very possiable  that  the  great  lakes   could  one  day  return  the   favor  and     be  used  as   stockings   for  the  west  coast!  
 
Where are you getting this info on our fishery ?? I don't recall seeing anything like that ? or are you speaking of the west coast noaa study?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Oct 30, 2011, 12:56 PM
 or  that   farm  raised   rainbows  are   becomeing  a   top food  source  ,  the  rainbow  has  been   transplanted   to  47  countrys ....  hing ;D
Both of those statements are old news.     Rainbow trout have been the #1 selling Farm Raised / Aquacultured) food fish for many years.   
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Oct 30, 2011, 02:38 PM
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u166/marpibeach/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: bcons on Oct 30, 2011, 02:53 PM
Wow this is still going?  Steelie sperm really? Uhhhhhh no matter what side of a debate you're on, or what your personal beliefs are you can google any opinion and find 6000000000000 links to back up your point, however so can the other guy. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Oct 30, 2011, 03:32 PM
Wow this is still going?  Steelie sperm really? Uhhhhhh no matter what side of a debate you're on, or what your personal beliefs are you can google any opinion and find 6000000000000 links to back up your point, however so can the other guy.  
hear is a question bcons: was that a steel head or a domestic rainbow that i got thru the ice last year ::) ::) ::) ::) ??? :-* ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 04:36 PM
Wow this is still going?  Steelie sperm really? Uhhhhhh no matter what side of a debate you're on, or what your personal beliefs are you can google any opinion and find 6000000000000 links to back up your point, however so can the other guy. 
Not necessarly B.... the facts in this debate have been pretty much one sided..........
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Oct 30, 2011, 04:41 PM
hear is a question bcons: was that a steel head or a domestic rainbow that i got thru the ice last year ::) ::) ::) ::) ??? :-* ;D
It was your fish what do you think ??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Raquettedacker on Oct 31, 2011, 07:32 AM
Have at it.....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 31, 2011, 07:35 AM
Have at it.....

thank you sir............I hope it doesn't come back to bite me if you know what I mean. I don't mind if Im incorrect on the subject at hand but lets keep it clean gents.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 31, 2011, 07:46 AM
Here's some info from the DEC sites and links I sent to Scott:-

Scott,

This is what the DEC link noted and it says it was recently updated info.:-

Spawning
Rainbow trout spawn or reproduce in the spring, while New York's other trout spawn in the fall. Like salmon, most trout species build nests, called redds. Using their tails to fan the bottom, female trout create a depression in clean gravel or cobble sites in streams and, occasionally, in seepage areas in ponds. The males remain nearby and drive off rivals. When the nest is ready, the eggs are deposited, quickly fertilized, and covered under a layer of gravel. Both adults then move on, leaving the eggs and young to develop on their own.

Lake trout, however, do not follow this spawning habit. Rather than build a nest, they simply scatter their eggs over the lake bottom.

Trout eggs are larger and fewer in number than those of many other fish species. For example, while a mature female walleye may have 50,000 to 100,000 eggs, a mature female trout may only have 1,000 to 3,000 eggs. After the trout eggs hatch, the young fish (called alevins) remain in the gravel for about one week before emerging to feed.

An interesting fact is that although rainbow trout spawn later than other New York trout species, their eggs still hatch at about the same time in the spring. This is because the amount of time required for fish eggs to develop depends on the water temperature. Eggs develop faster in warm water than in cool water. Therefore, the eggs deposited in the fall take longer to hatch - as they develop over the winter - than those deposited in the early spring, allowing the eggs of each species to hatch at a similar time.

Washington Steelhead
Mature Washington steelhead begin to enter Lake Ontario tributaries in small numbers as early as mid-September. By mid-October the run has intensified as the water temperatures of the streams drop to the optimum range of 45-58 degrees F for migration. The late October thru November period, before water temperatures get cooler than 40 degrees F, is typically one of the best times to fish for Washington steelhead in the tributaries as they are aggressively feeding. As water temperatures drop into the 30's, the run will slow considerably; however brief warming periods will bring new fish into the tributaries throughout the winter months of January and February. Spawning usually begins in Mid-March and continues through late April. After spawning, the fish begin to drop back downstream to the lake. Hungry and no longer distracted by the spawning ritual, these "drop-back" fish begin to feed heavily and can provide excellent fishing on some tributaries into mid-May.


I know it's been said that Domestic spawn in the fall and Steel in the Spring. So why does the DEC note that Rainbows spawn in the Spring as well? BTW:- I searched this by the phrase on their site "Domestic Rainbow Spawn".

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7016.html (http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7016.html)

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/62202.html (http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/62202.html)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishingjason on Oct 31, 2011, 04:07 PM
Whatever the case, here is a link to some interseting Pacific water Rainbows/Steelhead replicas.

http://www.blackwaterfishreplicas.com/site/gallery.html#steel (http://www.blackwaterfishreplicas.com/site/gallery.html#steel)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 31, 2011, 05:43 PM
Dinner break again at home...........woohoo.

I spoke to my buddy COD (aka Gillripper1)about this today and he said when he did the "Catch the Drift" boat trip in Nov. '09 that Capt Kevin said you cannot ID them by sight alone then he showed them how to ID them (Domestic Rainbows or Steelhead colored like Rainbows) . The better way, he said, is the way they fight on a hook..................so a slender one like the picture I posted on the other thread may, in fact, be a Steelhead (ie the one that was in the middle of the Chrome Steelie and Brown). James would know from the fight the fish gave. If the thing rockets out of the water doing cartwheels and flips galore then the likelihood is that it is a Steelhead. The difference is in the fight and not the color. i think fisher7450 noted this already.  He also noted that the Domestics may have more of a football shape as well. The Domestics fight but not like a Steelie. COD said the difference was very evident that day on the Oz between Domestics and Steelies that looked like Domestics.

Possibly more opinion than proof but the source is a very good one.   
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Oct 31, 2011, 06:01 PM
and i only stated that from experience my pb i believe was a domestic. it didn't take any runs more than 10 ft and did more flipping and spinning under water right in front of me then any fish i ever caught. oh and it was caught on the break wall in the lake fully colored in oct. on a cleo with 8lb test line  and from belly to dorsal it was built like a coho, just over 16lbs  that was about 8 years ago.  funnny thing i brought it ovet to larry's and he begged me to mount it as i had him fileted but he called it a steelhead so like i said i believe it was a domestic but i'll never no for sure  ;)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 01, 2011, 08:15 AM
Well it looks like several more days 16 on 8 off so Ill have to wait a few more days to get to the library to try and locate that book I want to read. If I can do so I willl share its contents as I read it on this thread. I have to say, and my track record to date this year is not good for landing anything, I hope I can hook into both kinds the next trip up in about 9 days time.

A trip in December for a weekend only is still in the cards as well. If conditions permit Oz is a must both trips.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: jj7leaf on Nov 01, 2011, 01:42 PM
Dinner break again at home...........woohoo.

I spoke to my buddy COD (aka Gillripper1)about this today and he said when he did the "Catch the Drift" boat trip in Nov. '09 that Capt Kevin said you cannot ID them by sight alone then he showed them how to ID them (Domestic Rainbows or Steelhead colored like Rainbows) . The better way, he said, is the way they fight on a hook..................so a slender one like the picture I posted on the other thread may, in fact, be a Steelhead (ie the one that was in the middle of the Chrome Steelie and Brown). James would know from the fight the fish gave. If the thing rockets out of the water doing cartwheels and flips galore then the likelihood is that it is a Steelhead. The difference is in the fight and not the color. i think fisher7450 noted this already.  He also noted that the Domestics may have more of a football shape as well. The Domestics fight but not like a Steelie. COD said the difference was very evident that day on the Oz between Domestics and Steelies that looked like Domestics.

Possibly more opinion than proof but the source is a very good one.   

Great opinion and I have a lot of respect for Kevin but if you hook a steelhead that has been hooked, played or landed twice that week do you think it would still jump all over the place and go crazy or do you think it would just bull dog using the current?   


 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: jj7leaf on Nov 01, 2011, 01:56 PM
For the folks who are having an issue reading. we'll go to pictures again.
What is this?

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010137.jpg)
Domestic Rainbow.. Say it Class D-O-M-E-S-T-I-C  R-A-I-N-B-O-W.. Very Good Class!

What is this? Well??

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010129.jpg)
Its A Steelhead.. VERY GOOD Now Say it S-T-E-E-L-H-E-A-D.. Very good!!

Again ok

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010062.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010064.jpg)
DOMSETIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010002-4.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011344.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011345.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010003-1.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011299.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P10111245.jpg)
Class dissmissed!
you need More OK!!
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/feb16101-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010008.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/RSSTHEAD.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010116.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_007.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_008.jpg)
OK GOING BACK TO THE DOMESTIC RAINBOWS, DON'T BLINK!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Bow2.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/bow3.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010115.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA050005-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA250012.jpg)
END OF STORY!
(From Simplecarp pictures On page #1)

I agree with every one of your examples except #5
Can you tell what the date was at that point?
If it was after December I would say Male Steelhead, alot of upper river steelhead that spend the entire winter in the shallow dark water will take up coloration like that for camoflage.  


Who can ID these?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI2.jpg)

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 01, 2011, 04:14 PM
Great opinion and I have a lot of respect for Kevin but if you hook a steelhead that has been hooked, played or landed twice that week do you think it would still jump all over the place and go crazy or do you think it would just bull dog using the current?   


 


I thought about that scenario and obviously it's not fool proof but remember the note about Domestics above that they are shaped more like footballs..............couple that with the fight and you may be able to tell.  Some of Franks examples clearly were Domestics and others could be questioned as you already noted. Additionally, some are not even allowing the possibility that if it is colored like a Rainbow that it may be a Steelhead. That's what I don't get.  100% ID'ing is likely not possible for many fisherman. You have to have a greater knowledge of many factors including color, shape, size, spawn & fight!

The scenario you posed is a good one but it highlights the difficulty of the task IMO.

Trap, in part, it is about ID'ing but that's not the whole ball of wax either. More to come in the next few weeks.

Dinner break at home again............yabadabado!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: steelie24 on Nov 01, 2011, 05:03 PM
A questions for those that have fished Oswego a long time...I started fishing there around 2000 and noticed a bunch of domestics that were as previously stated looked like footballs, short and very wide. I actually caught a very colorful male that I estimated was in the 16-17lb range in 2002, I thought at the time I would get another as I had seen quite a few over the previous couple years, so I released it...I didn't catch another one like it and saw very few since. I had some domestic that were over 10lbs but they weren't the same shape. My question is...was there a different strain there years ago?...and there just isn't anymore around. The only other place I saw fish like these was out west in some of the lakes.  Oh, and about 3 years ago I lost one in N. Sandy that was huge and wide.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 01, 2011, 05:42 PM
i have a possible wild Steelie i caught last year out of the burty

i know its not native to burt but everything was clean. fins were tight no marks. and boy did it fight harder than hell... harder than any other steelie ive ever hooked

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/150227_497543816423_748346423_7176758_2751898_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Nov 01, 2011, 06:19 PM
A questions for those that have fished Oswego a long time...I started fishing there around 2000 and noticed a bunch of domestics that were as previously stated looked like footballs, short and very wide. I actually caught a very colorful male that I estimated was in the 16-17lb range in 2002, I thought at the time I would get another as I had seen quite a few over the previous couple years, so I released it...I didn't catch another one like it and saw very few since. I had some domestic that were over 10lbs but they weren't the same shape. My question is...was there a different strain there years ago?...and there just isn't anymore around. The only other place I saw fish like these was out west in some of the lakes.  Oh, and about 3 years ago I lost one in N. Sandy that was huge and wide.
I think the size changed when the bait changd but thats opinion
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 01, 2011, 06:58 PM
now  thats   exactly  what  were  talking  about  ....  what  is  that?   rainbow ?   domistic?  steelhead  ...wild   spawn  ... orrrrrrrrr  mix?????

very  very  nice  fish     ;D

Thanks Trap. and my friend Adam who i was fishing with. came right out and said he believed it was a wild fish. ive never seen a fish fly so high out of the water. and pull so hard on my pin. it faught like a 20 pound king
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Nov 01, 2011, 07:07 PM
thats a good point trap it would explain why they vary so much in shape and color
 all i was saying was when the smelt population dove so did the girth of our fish
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 01, 2011, 07:31 PM
(From Simplecarp pictures On page #1)

I agree with every one of your examples except #5
Can you tell what the date was at that point?
If it was after December I would say Male Steelhead, alot of upper river steelhead that spend the entire winter in the shallow dark water will take up coloration like that for camoflage.  


Who can ID these?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI2.jpg)


Are them are the crazy bass giant rainbows they catch up by DRIFTER in Canada ?? They look familiar
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 01, 2011, 07:33 PM
i have a possible wild Steelie i caught last year out of the burty

i know its not native to burt but everything was clean. fins were tight no marks. and boy did it fight harder than hell... harder than any other steelie ive ever hooked

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/150227_497543816423_748346423_7176758_2751898_n.jpg)
Why did you photoshop in them ugly glasses ??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 01, 2011, 09:15 PM
(From Simplecarp pictures On page #1)

I agree with every one of your examples except #5
Can you tell what the date was at that point?
That fish was caught on my birthday December 4th... I took the picture.... Look at the coloration of these fish all caught on the same day from the same body of water... Note body shape and coloration of these fish...could be male steelhead all lit up ?????
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010006-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010010.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010009.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010008-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010007-2.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010005-2.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P10100032.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010002-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: SNAGGER on Nov 01, 2011, 09:53 PM
Scanned this quick........

  Your domestic rainbows will start spawning in the next 2 weeks around here and your earliest cowlitz strain steelhead will start around Christmas and continue all winter, even though your biggest cluster of spawners occurs in march through mid may.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: jj7leaf on Nov 02, 2011, 07:13 AM
Are them are the crazy bass giant rainbows they catch up by DRIFTER in Canada ?? They look familiar

Both of the fish I showed were Steelhead that run from the west coast to Idaho.  They are in the river for a long time to go that far and they all darken up for camoflage as they near spawing time.  Same way a bass and alot of other fish show different colorations depending on the depth, water clarity, and how long they were in the area you found them in.

j
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 02, 2011, 07:25 AM
(From Simplecarp pictures On page #1)

I agree with every one of your examples except #5
Can you tell what the date was at that point?
If it was after December I would say Male Steelhead, alot of upper river steelhead that spend the entire winter in the shallow dark water will take up coloration like that for camoflage.  


Who can ID these?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/jj7leaf/whoamI2.jpg)



I just want to know if you are in any of those pics with either fish? If you are then, darn dude, that is one nice catch. Bet that was some real fun to land a fish like that.

What did you catch it on.........Flyrod, CP or ??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: jj7leaf on Nov 02, 2011, 07:31 AM
I just want to know if you are in any of those pics with either fish? If you are then, darn dude, that is one nice catch. Bet that was some real fun to land a fish like that.

What did you catch it on.........Flyrod, CP or ??

Not me, pulled from the interweb.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 02, 2011, 07:39 AM
Not me, pulled from the interweb.

Thanks and to bad! Don Hunter is my friends friend (Don has a place in Pulaski & fishes the SR often). Anyway here's some pics from a recent trip he did in Oregon:-

Don is the guy in the 3rd row. Maybe someday I can get there.
http://www.hobofishing.com/post/2011/10/24/Got-out-in-Oregon-Hit-a-little-secret-hole.aspx (http://www.hobofishing.com/post/2011/10/24/Got-out-in-Oregon-Hit-a-little-secret-hole.aspx)

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishthefalls123 on Nov 02, 2011, 08:04 AM
nice pics on don bob! great looking fish and that looks like one heck of a place to go to!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: waterwolf603 on Nov 02, 2011, 08:28 AM
some good looking fish guys, I still have no clue I think I am with the majority of you and will go with the omykiss theory... none the less they are fun as heck to catch and great looking fish
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 02, 2011, 08:37 AM
Don got into a good mix of fish, Kings, Silvers (Coho), Steelhead and even a Cut Throat.  

I cannot ID the Cut Throat so I went here and found this:- http://www.coloradotrouthunters.com/troutidentification.html (http://www.coloradotrouthunters.com/troutidentification.html)

Still can't see which one in Don's picture is a Cut Throat. But I didn't spend a lot of time either. Getting ready for work again but found the site interesting.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishthefalls123 on Nov 02, 2011, 09:14 AM
very interesting site bob. i belive a way to check for a deffinate cut throat is the distinct red line in the lower section of the gill plate from seeing a normal cut throat and a the hyrid on the site you can see tht both have a red line in  the lower section on the gill plate. i think thats a way of telling if im not mistaken
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishthefalls123 on Nov 02, 2011, 09:16 AM
also on a side note glad to see you got your power back on im heading back home later in the afternoon today but gotta work at ramsey 5:30 till 9:30. so praying we have light !!!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 02, 2011, 06:20 PM
OK, so I asked Aaron Shook from Hobofishing.com out in Oregon one of the questions we've been discussing and here is his response:-

Hey Bob.
 The answer to your question is yes we do get Steelies colored like bows, but telling them apart is very easy. We do not have any bows that big, ans also the bows have a lot of spots through out the face and a Steelhead typically will not.
 Size is the best tell though.


Thanks for the comment.

Aaron
Flymstr;

The comment I made and question is posted at the bottom of the link on his site for the "Got out in Oregon. Hit a little secret hole date". Just click on the comments (3) link to view. In addition, go to the home page for more of Donny's trip and the Chums they are catching now.

http://www.hobofishing.com/ (http://www.hobofishing.com/)

Dinner at home again.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 02, 2011, 07:25 PM
well  , i  am feeling  good  about  this  thread  now !  seeing  all the  different    strains  ...... i  think  the  more  we  learn  the  more  we realize  we  don't  know  ......  but  thats  what  makes  fishing  fun  ;D .......
What don't you Know? you can tell by just looking at the fish what they are.
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/milemilebow-1.jpg)
Somebody tell me when a spring spawner Drops eggs in October????
Now here is a Spring spawning Female Washington Steelhead I caught 5 weeks later.

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010005-2-1.jpg)
 :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
What's this WE stuff? :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 02, 2011, 07:27 PM
Heres the thing, some Domestic strains spawn in the fall. it all depends on what strain it is.. or how mutated the gene's of the fish are.  Here in New York it is clear that we have created a bunch of mutt steelhead in dog terms
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Nov 02, 2011, 08:03 PM
What don't you Know? you can tell by just looking at the fish what they are.
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/milemilebow-1.jpg)
Somebody tell me when a spring spawner Drops eggs in October????
Now here is a Spring spawning Female Washington Steelhead I caught 5 weeks later.

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010005-2-1.jpg)
 :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
What's this WE stuff? :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
all i can say is i ways there for that one and i watched as the pair were making a bed and spawning. as i took the picture eggs were poring out and that fish was done. not a steel head is my opinion it was a fall spawning domestic rain bow :-*
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 02, 2011, 08:20 PM
exactly  what  i  think  has  happened   however  what  people  are   missing  ...being  a  put  and  take  fishery   ,changes  can  be  made  rather   quickly ,  another  thing   no one  has  mentioned     theres   5  other   lakes  upstream   and  another  country  stocking   just   on  the  other  shore  line  ....  years  ago i  can  rember   the   different  fin  clips   between  the  US  and   canada  ....  i  admitt  i  haven't   stayed    abreast     to  it  all  .... 

 i  still  find  the  number  of   cross  kings  and  cohos    strange  ...i  honestly  wonder  if  this   occures   in  the  wild  of  hatchery  mishaps  .... 
As much as it is a put and take fishery, i do know that Canada focuses mostly on Atlantics now. they have a lot of natural Repro for the steel/bows, as for the America Side. who truely knows if we actually do have natural reproduction. i know they do not know for sure. but think about the Lower Niagara River. its HUGE. and a lot of gravel in areas. whose to say that they are not reproducing there. and sometimes it stays in the low 50's into the Beginning of July.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 03:08 AM
Ok now I'm convinced that James Rainbow colored fish is not a Rainbow at all. Here's the reason why:- "also the bows have a lot of spots through out the face and a Steelhead typically will not". Aaron Shooks (Steelhead expert and guide) answer to my question is as simple as that.  http://www.hobofishing.com/ (http://www.hobofishing.com/)

Look closely at the picture and in particular at the middle ?Rainbow? or ?Steelhead?. STEELHEAD! I zoomed in on Tinypic and there are NO spots on it's face............none!!!
"We" that is all of us that are interested in this topic, just might have hit the jackpot!!! Some may be happy about it and some might be angry about it but it is what it is. Might I conclude case closed? NO because the learning is not over and "we" have not arrived to a full and complete understanding of this species. There is more to learn just watch and see.
If anyone would like me to forward a copy of the picture so you can zoom in as I did just let me know. I guarantee you will see for yourself!


(http://i53.tinypic.com/nvqgzl.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 03:12 AM
For the folks who are having an issue reading. we'll go to pictures again.
What is this?

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010137.jpg)
Domestic Rainbow.. Say it Class D-O-M-E-S-T-I-C  R-A-I-N-B-O-W.. Very Good Class!

What is this? Well??

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010129.jpg)
Its A Steelhead.. VERY GOOD Now Say it S-T-E-E-L-H-E-A-D.. Very good!!

Again ok

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010062.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010064.jpg)
DOMSETIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010002-4.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011344.jpg)
DOMESTIC RAINBOW!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011345.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010003-1.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1011299.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P10111245.jpg)
Class dissmissed!
you need More OK!!
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/feb16101-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010008.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/RSSTHEAD.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010116.jpg)
STEELHEAD!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_007.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Fall_2009_Steelhead_008.jpg)
OK GOING BACK TO THE DOMESTIC RAINBOWS, DON'T BLINK!
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/Bow2.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/bow3.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/P1010115.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA050005-1.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p374/Frankeysquad/PA250012.jpg)
END OF STORY!

As far as I can tell in all of Franks examples there ARE spots on the face of these Domestic Rainbows. So I would conclude that Frank is correct with regard to these examples.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 03:58 AM
This cropped view is not as clear as I'd like but it seems to me that there are no spots. In Franks examples the spots are all over the face/head. Also with the magnifier on my Gillripper cap shows no visible spots when I use it to view the original picture.

(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i379/fishsomemore/1024091203-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 04:15 AM
Compare:-  Also notice the wound on the underside of her mouth. It appears she was preparing a redd and was either preparing to spawn or was spawning. I caught this fish on 12/13/09

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2d98gfn.jpg)

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 03, 2011, 05:31 AM
You also have to put into a perspcetive too Bob, at that time of the year you have a few different strains of Steelhead in the river too. Summer spawners and spring spawners. The fish that Gillripper is hold is a Spring spawning Steelhead. The other one that guy number two is holding, looks to me to be a Late, summer run Male Steelhead. To thin and sleak to be a Domestic Rainbow. Look at your pig your holding just fat from the head to the anal fin. Thats what we're talking about here.. You can I.D. the different fish very easy.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Nov 03, 2011, 07:58 AM


http://www.fws.gov/ennis/investigations/BIANNUAL%20SPAWNING%20BEHAVIOR%20IN%20THREE%20STRAINS%20OF%20RAINBOW%20TROUT.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/ennis/investigations/BIANNUAL%20SPAWNING%20BEHAVIOR%20IN%20THREE%20STRAINS%20OF%20RAINBOW%20TROUT.pdf)

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 08:45 AM
interesting  tidbit  i  found  .....adds  somw  interesting  ideas 

http://www.lakesuperiorstreams.org/understanding/rainbowtrout.html (http://www.lakesuperiorstreams.org/understanding/rainbowtrout.html)

Some steelhead spawn in the fall, but most spawn in the spring mostly in April in Minnesota. Water temperatures must go above 5°C (41° F) and streams must rise (from rain) or the steelhead will not spawn.

oh  my  this  would  throw a  monkey  wrench  in  everything  .....


(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/CedarWeb1.jpg)

i  showed  this  picture  before  a  fish i know  in all honesty   most  would  id  as a  steelhead  silver  bullet  no facial  spots  .....can't  even  call it a  cross  it's  a  new  jersy  rainbow  where  the  hatchery  uses  it's  own  brood  stock  and  no washington   or  skamina  strain ....



Interesting link and a good read. I remembered this morning that the little fish you see below Trappers & my screen name is called a Steelhead. At least that's what MFF called it in the list of choices they give. Notice the color. How come it took me pages and pages to find that out for sure. LMAO. Anyway this whole topic is very interesting to me and the likelihood that we will become "experts" hinges upon how much study and or fishing for this species that we do. It's a fairly large undertaking as I think we are finding out.

Fisher7450 your first link is a dead one........it goes to some verizon screen. The 2nd one looks like its worth a read. Maybe another day. Back for 16 soon.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 03, 2011, 08:51 AM
You also have to put into a perspcetive too Bob, at that time of the year you have a few different strains of Steelhead in the river too. Summer spawners and spring spawners. The fish that Gillripper is hold is a Spring spawning Steelhead. The other one that guy number two is holding, looks to me to be a Late, summer run Male Steelhead. To thin and sleak to be a Domestic Rainbow. Look at your pig your holding just fat from the head to the anal fin. Thats what we're talking about here.. You can I.D. the different fish very easy.

I'm trying to Frank but my head is spinning from all this info. Which ones spawn when and multiple times, etc....... It's not so easy if you don't know what to look for but that's where the learning part comes in. It's a journey not a destination in the sense that we will ever "arrive" completely. There is just to much cross breeding that has occurred or at least that's what I think I'm gonna find when I read the book. Additionally, other factors such as those you note that are required knowledge. We'll see.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Nov 03, 2011, 09:38 AM
http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm (http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm)
try again  its about cross breads i know its not our hatchery but its an example
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 03, 2011, 04:01 PM
All this talking about cross breads, and domestic's and steelhead. just make me want to go catch some more mutt's. just saying. so this weekend who ever gets a mutt. lets post a picture and play guess what kind of mutt it is?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: draketrutta on Nov 03, 2011, 05:46 PM
so Trap - do you agree with the spots on head theory posted by fishgalore?

I never knew about the spots before - but I never really paid much attention to detailed ID matters.

Just wondering if that gets your expert stamp of approval... ;)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 04, 2011, 02:27 AM
drake   truth   i  been   fishing    steelies   for     40  years  including  west  coast   ,  i  have   volenteered    and   worked  in  2   fish  hatcherys  ,  i been  to  seminars  and   read  books  ..........  my  opinion  .....truth  ....  i  think  we  all  get  them  mixed   up alot  of  times  ..... there   is  no  one  rule   to  follow  ...  even   experts   us terms  such  as   "most  likely"  and "has  traits  of" ..... this    has  been  going  on   for  100's   of  years!!!!   until   the  1980's  steelhead  where  considered  a  different  spicies  ....spots  on  the   face  no  spots   color  shape domestic   wild   washington  michagan   skamanian  .....  drake   i  think   alot   of  them  jumped  the   fence ,wether  in  the  wild   or  in  the  hatcherys, i  think  there  is  no  100%  sure   way   we   can  id  all  the  fish (but  i  do  think  we  can   get  alot)    ....  now  michagan   says  they  have  steelhead  spawning  in  the  fall  too   ???  ???  hey  at  worse  it's  a  50  50    ;D

That is a fair assessment in light of Aaron's words..................... and a Steelhead "typically" will not.  I think Trapp is onto something here and I said it myself before. Trying to discover though has been fun for me. Learning is a part of the process and in the end all this learning might just lead us to the conclusion (which many have already resolved to note) that we CANNOT with 100% certainty ID them without some kind of genetic test anymore.

I'd bet that most guys reading this thread though will be looking for some of the specific traits that are being noted on the fish they are catching and that's a good thing IMO.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 04, 2011, 02:30 AM
http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm (http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm)
try again  its about cross breads i know its not our hatchery but its an example

Good read thanks!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: draketrutta on Nov 04, 2011, 06:43 AM
gotcha Trap...

honestly, I never thought about the dots on the "rainbow trout's head.

Glad that fishgalore posted about it. It was very interesting research he dug up.

later
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 04, 2011, 08:09 AM
Compare:-  Also notice the wound on the underside of her mouth. It appears she was preparing a redd and was either preparing to spawn or was spawning. I caught this fish on 12/13/09

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2d98gfn.jpg)



I forgot to note.............she lived to see another day. So hopefully she spawned out before someone took her out. I'm mostly a C & R guy.  If someone I'm with wants the fish and will eat it, they can have it. But don't freeze it for 6 mos then throw it away. I'd let it go if I knew that would happen.  The Pequest empties into the Delaware River.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 04, 2011, 08:33 AM
skamania steelhead  spawn  at  the  same  time  as  regular  steelhead  spawn  ...unless     steelhead  too   can  spawn   at  different  times    and  if  thats  the  case   your  fall  spawning  domistics     may  not  be  domestics  at  all  ......

Skamania steelhead spawn in the spring they just enter the river early.... One of the key factors you will see repeating in systems with Fall spawning fish is the domestic or hatchery raised captive broodstock... There are many different strains spring and autum spawning rainbows..
 Do a search on the London strain of Rainbow trout. see what you can dig up....................

this is also an interesting read...
http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf (http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf)  
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 04, 2011, 08:48 AM
now  michagan   says  they  have  steelhead  spawning  in  the  fall  too   ???  ??? 
as does Ontario, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Minnesota..... And you thought they didn't exist two weeks ago !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 04, 2011, 10:35 AM
as does Ontario, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Minnesota..... And you thought they didn't exist two weeks ago !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Flip Flop Flip Flop Flip Flop  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 04, 2011, 11:35 AM
  my  point  esox   mishagan  reports (some)  steelhead    spawning   wild  in  the  fall!  same  strains  we  have  ....  oh my  another  monkey  wrench 
Thats because the trait can be passed on ...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 04, 2011, 11:50 AM
One of the key factors you will see repeating in systems with Fall spawning fish is the domestic or hatchery raised captive broodstock... They are not sterile and can interbreed.... the cold water period will help to keep that separate...... but not 100%
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 04, 2011, 05:26 PM
esox  see   what  you  can  find  on  how  hatcherys    seperate  a  skaminia   from  a  washington  strain  ....  another   question  if  a  domestic  is    artificailly   forced  to  spawn   using light   and  temps   to  fool it's  body  into  believeing  it's     spring   or  late  winter  ....why  would  it   continue  to  spawn  in  the  natural   fall   when  those    forced   factors  are  now   gone?  another  words     fall is  no longer  false   spring  it's  fall  .....  and  the light   is   not  getting longer  but getting  shorter .....   the   bio  clock  should  go  back  to  it's  natural  state    ...as   it  merely   reacted  to     the  light  and  temps   being made  to  mimic   spring
I agree with you.... I asked that specific question....  That's what I was told by the region 7 biologist .... Doesn't make sense to me ?? A random call on the phone he could have just been blowing me off who knows ??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 04, 2011, 05:27 PM
Flip Flop Flip Flop Flip Flop  ::) ;D

Not necessarily, when you study you can flip when the facts indicate you should: otherwise you flop!! I'm pretty certain almost everyone that has read and interacted on this topic has learned at least something that they didn't know before. If they had to flip does that make them a flop? Uh-uh, keep your minds open boys for we haven't arrived yet.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 04, 2011, 05:38 PM
Skamania steelhead spawn in the spring they just enter the river early.... One of the key factors you will see repeating in systems with Fall spawning fish is the domestic or hatchery raised captive broodstock... There are many different strains spring and autum spawning rainbows..
 Do a search on the London strain of Rainbow trout. see what you can dig up....................

this is also an interesting read...
http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf (http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf)  

More to read.........great (sigh). At least I will be able to better interact with the material sometime next week. Better yet, fishing up there next weekend!

I tied flies today while sitting on a site to protect the public. It's boring when there isn't much chance of someone walking through barracaded roadways, sidewalks or other caution taped areas. It's amazing more people don't get injured after a storm like this. 50% of cars that could have turned right or left to a safer roadway choose instead to drive through a barracade and risk injury from downed lines and trees. If you showed them a picture of that street and the one about 100' away they would choose to go down the clear roadway (on paper) every time. People just don't think.

Conclusion, this thread is for thinkers and not robots who just believe what they are told or make decisions based merely upon convenience or what is expedient. 50% chose the expedient way yesterday. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 04, 2011, 07:15 PM
i  got   a  picture  of  mutley!!!!

(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/Mutley-logo-42BC20AE91-seeklogocom.gif)

i  seen  the   red  on  his  throat  so  i  was  thinking cut  throat  ,  then  i  seen  the  bright   red   on  his  head  and   his   stocky  body  i   figured  domstic  ......  yup  this  is  a   cross  mute   fer  sure

i saw this and started to laugh histerically
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 05, 2011, 04:24 AM
Apparently, this discussion is going on over at SC but not on the same level as here. I may have given them something to chew on over there.   http://www.salmoncrazy.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53300-let-the-good-times-roll/ (http://www.salmoncrazy.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53300-let-the-good-times-roll/)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 05, 2011, 08:02 AM
bob  i  think  what  it  is  , people  that  have  a    real  interest  in   steelhead  salmon  and  trout    are     seeing   traits    becoming  shared   and  not    just  used  by  any  one  strain!   it  appears  to  be  happening   threw  out  the  great  lakes  and  not  just  here....

this   altering  the   spawning  time  table   has  caused  alarm  for  me  now    that i  have  had  time  to  think  about  it  ....  severeal  questions  loom ...!  why  bother  to  alter  the   spawning ?  2 are  these  fish  released  in other  waters  and  if   just  released  in ontario  ,can't  they  travel upstreams ....  we  have   all  seen  salmon  go  threw  the  locks  and  end  up   way  above  fulton  and  in  black  creek !  waterhouse  creek  and  so on ....3  will  this   cause   problems   with   wild  reprodoucing  fish ????  i'm  not  just  talking  the  ontario  fishery  here ..... 

I'm thinking the answer to number 3 is happening already. That's what you will find when I read the book and is part of the whole problem.  We have tampered to the point where it has hurt the ecosystem as much as it has helped. It's a paradoxical situation.

And I agree that people do have an interest because we are fisherman we want to be able to know what it is that we are catching. You are spot on!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 05, 2011, 04:42 PM
Now what turn has this thing taken??
Had a nice talk with one of the fish techs from the Hatchery this morning.. Very nice lady. You guys should have been there.. It would have put this topic to sleep! :-*
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 04:41 AM
Just when you think this topic is dead some idiot comes up with, yet, another example that spins your head.

Thanks griz for posting this bit of info. Now we won't know what we are catching again!! (slight bit of sarcasm)
http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/2011/11/salmon_acres.html (http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/2011/11/salmon_acres.html)


So how is the fish in that 1st picture a Steelhead? If it's colored like a Rainbow it's got to be a Rainbow. Then secondly, what traits reveal that it is a Steelhead? It's color............. size............... shape,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, not spawning............. exactly what, pray tell, determined that it's a Steelhead and not a Rainbow? Did they do a genetic test? Or are they sadly mistaken, which for an average joe on the river could be a costly mistake with the DEC, depending upon what other fish you kept!  Looks like someone could be fined in the near future since the ID problem seems to be in full tilt. Heck maybe OIN is in kahoots with the DEC on misidentifying to help line the States coffers (dripping with sarcasm).  Gillripper1 said this issue for him means he will never have a "Rainbow" & an obvious chrome Steelhead in his possession EVER at the same time on a stringer. Now that's coming from a guy that's been doing this over 16 years up there. 

Curious questions will lead to some more curious questions. Who's right and who's wrong anyway? Or are we all right or maybe all wrong? So far it depends on WHO you talk to. So.......................has anyone asked the DEC, you know...........da man: what is a Domestic Rainbow? We've all been going to the wrong source for our answers! Shame on us! (more sarcasm)
Oh, and you SC guys are even more confused than the MFF clan.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 07, 2011, 06:03 AM
Just never have a "Rainbow" & an obvious chrome Steelhead in his possession EVER at the same time on a stringer. Now that's coming from a guy that's been doing this over 16 years up there.  Bob you can only have one as the book reads One Rainbow/steelhead over 21 inches. So if its a steelhead or a rainbow you can only keep one!! End of Story there...

 WHO you talk to. So.......................has anyone asked the DEC, you know...........da man: what is a Domestic Rainbow? We've all been going to the wrong source for our answers! Shame on us! (more sarcasm)
Oh, and you SC guys are even more confused than the MFF clan.
Esoxv and myself spent 40 mins talk to a biologist who works at the Hatchery on Saturday, she was doing a creel servey. She said that there are domestic fall spawning rainbows in the lake and the River systems.. She also said that a good fisherman can tell the difference between the two fish.. Hence Steelhead and Domestic Rainbows.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 07, 2011, 06:29 AM
Esoxv and myself spent 40 mins talk to a biologist who works at the Hatchery on Saturday, she was doing a creel servey. She said that there are domestic fall spawning rainbows in the lake and the River systems.. She also said that a good fisherman can tell the difference between the two fish.. Hence Steelhead and Domestic Rainbows.
I agree with everything that was said.... but.... She was a fish tec i believe.. Not a biologist
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 09:10 AM
Esoxv and myself spent 40 mins talk to a biologist who works at the Hatchery on Saturday, she was doing a creel servey. She said that there are domestic fall spawning rainbows in the lake and the River systems.. She also said that a good fisherman can tell the difference between the two fish.. Hence Steelhead and Domestic Rainbows.

So Frank, do you mean to say I'm not a good fisherman?   LMAO...........only kidding. Maybe inexperienced in so far as the SR is concerned but I'm a fast learner (or trouble maker with all my questions).
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: bcons on Nov 07, 2011, 10:42 AM
I agree with everything that was said.... but.... She was a fish tec i believe.. Not a biologist

Personally I think Esox & SGC need to learn to ice fish, QUIT BEING SKEERED!  Leanr to catch some edible fish like perch & eyes QUIT arguing bout trout  :P :P :P
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishfishfishfish on Nov 07, 2011, 02:07 PM
Ok now I'm convinced that James Rainbow colored fish is not a Rainbow at all. Here's the reason why:- "also the bows have a lot of spots through out the face and a Steelhead typically will not". Aaron Shooks (Steelhead expert and guide) answer to my question is as simple as that.  http://www.hobofishing.com/ (http://www.hobofishing.com/)

Look closely at the picture and in particular at the middle ?Rainbow? or ?Steelhead?. STEELHEAD! I zoomed in on Tinypic and there are NO spots on it's face............none!!!
"We" that is all of us that are interested in this topic, just might have hit the jackpot!!! Some may be happy about it and some might be angry about it but it is what it is. Might I conclude case closed? NO because the learning is not over and "we" have not arrived to a full and complete understanding of this species. There is more to learn just watch and see.
If anyone would like me to forward a copy of the picture so you can zoom in as I did just let me know. I guarantee you will see for yourself!


(http://i53.tinypic.com/nvqgzl.jpg)

 i would not get too hung up on using the spots on the head as the big factor in deciding if it is a domestic rainbow or steelhead. as your  steelhead expert says "typically" .  looking at pics of chrome steel  a fair number have  spots on the head , and  i have one looks like a dom  rainbow in all way except no spots. if you want i can post some pics when i get a chance.  imho that one looks like a young ?2 year rainbow , older fish will  start to look more  like the typical fish of the strain .

It can be easy to id a fish if it dsplays  all the  characteristics of the strain but there are many times  when it  is in a grey zone and the best most of us could say is  it could be this or it could be that.

otherwise good discussion and looking forward to read your links whe i have a chance.



Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 07, 2011, 02:49 PM
im waiting for my buddy to email me the pictures from saturday. got a handful of steel/bow pics
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 04:41 PM
a  fish  tec  does  readings   collects  data   and  works  in  the  hatchery  !  

no  one  is  saying  theres  not  fall  spawning  domestic  rainbows  !!!!   michagan  is  saying   hey   we  have   fall  spawning  steel  now  too  .....  i  could  care  less   who  can   id  what  ....  or  thinks  they  can  at least    but  i   am   VERY  VERY  interested  in  the  fall  spawning  and   why   steelhead  would   be   doing  it  !   i  have   read  a  few    things  that  west  coast  fish  have  done  this  too  !!!!  

i  really  don't  understand  the  hostility    just  because   A LOT   OF  FISHERMAN,AREA GUIDES,AND PEOPLE  WITH MANY  YEARS  OF  EXPERANCE   are  saying  something  ain't  adding  up  ....  we  want  to  find  out  why  andd  what  .....

our   fishery   is  40  years  old  it's  still  a experament!  if  your   content   with   what  you  catch  and  what  you  want  to   call it   and  the  explanations  you  have  ...good  for  you!   god  bless  ya  ....   but  theres  nothing  wrong with  the  others   wanting  to learn more   ,understand  more  ,  talk  about  it  and   research  it  .....

so  what  if  one  person   really   could  100%  id   every  fish  (  which   every   biologist   admits  is  impossiable)    but    for  the  sake  of  argueement    one  guy  can ,  what  so  wrong  with    me  or  bob    and  the  rest  of  the   gang   saying  ,  we  can't  but  were   going  to  try  to learn  as  much  as  we  can????  it  you  had  a     brain   tumor  (god   forbit)  do  you  want  the  doctoor  that  says   yup i know  everything  there  is  to know  about  them   ...or   a  doctor  that   says    yeah  i know  alot   but  i'm   learning  more  and  researching  more   everyday?

 just   really   bewildered  why     tring  to learn  more  and    researching  and  discussing  would  upset  someone   




I'm interested in IDing on the practical side for obvious reasons. On the other hand, on the technical side, it is a very complex and interesting subject that requires some thinking. Couple that with the fact that I like to write and articulate my thoughts so others can understand my thoughts and arguments (in the sense of my position not opposition or banter) and some may think I'm a monster. But that is not the case, at least, that is not my intention. Thinking critically is part of my personality. I guess it's possible to change but not likely. I'm sort of set in my ways. (bcons we're not arguing in the sense of fighting but rather intellectual discussion IMO).

On SC some are noting the spawn periods as if they are set in stone. But I think we have gotten beyond that point and recognize that that's also not as clean cut as we'd like to think. Plenty of evidence has been noted to that effect. Cross breeding is another matter which I do believe has impacted this issue. Again, on SC some don't believe it's had any significant effect.  I'm not willing personally, like Trapper, to just accept some simplistic answers when there is enough credible evidence to question it's validity. Moreover, it seems to me to be a great topic to discuss as much as any other on this site.

If you don't agree and don't really like the topic no one says you have to read it or comment but certainly you are welcome to do so, and especially if you disagree. Just present your argument(s) in logical and clearly understandable terms. It's like a tug of war sometimes; but eventually we'll tire or get to a point where it's been beat to death. I, however, don't believe we've reached that point yet. Not even close.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 07, 2011, 04:49 PM
Bob, Are you up next week? If I get out early at when your up I'll fish with you.. Hope the bit will be on.

SCG..
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 05:03 PM
looking at pics of chrome steel   a fair number have  spots on the head  , and  i have one looks like a dom  rainbow in all way except no spots. if you want i can post some pics when i get a chance.  imho that one looks like a young ?2 year rainbow , older fish will  start to look more  like the typical fish of the strain .

Good point Fish and one I've taken note of myself but perhaps the difference is that the colored Steelhead manifest different characteristics such as the color change and no spots when they are spawning. This would at least explain the morphological differences between the various strains of the same species. Variations within a species is a common thing and differences have been observed and noted. One thing we know about such things is that one species cannot become another species. You can have variations within a species but the basic genetic makeup cannot cause macro changes. For example, a cat cannot become a dog or vice versa, etc.....etc.......ad infinitum.

At least in my studies concerning evolution/creation theories. The DNA evidence far surpasses any credible paleontological evidence (study of fossil record) and most scientists would note that one species cannot evolve into another species (did I open a pandora's box now?) What can happen with the DNA is a mutation but a mutation is NOT an improvement but either has a neutral effect or a harmful one. In other words the species cannot be improved but there is a "breakdown" in the genetic makeup. Sorry for getting so technical but that's where the heavy hitters (biolgists/scientists) will be in making their arguments. I'm not on their level but I'm also not ignorant of such things.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 05:07 PM
Bob, Are you up next week? If I get out early at when your up I'll fish with you.. Hope the bit will be on.

SCG..


Dude, this Friday, Saturday & Sunday. COD aka Gillripper1 will be up on Thurs-Sun. Fishthefalls and I will do a driftboat with Northwoods on Friday. Then maybe later in the day fish with Shane & COD. Then we are available all day SAT & SUN but if the flows are good we want to hit OZ, preferably Sunday. But at least one day for sure. You're welcome anytime we're there. I know COD likes down low and up high. Hope to fish both I'm sure.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 07, 2011, 05:11 PM
I'll call you and let you know.. Good luck if I don't see you. I have my daughter this weekend.  ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 05:15 PM
I'll call you and let you know.. Good luck if I don't see you. I have my daughter this weekend.  ;D

Thanks, hope to see you but if I don't enjoy your time together.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 07, 2011, 05:16 PM
Always do! lol
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 07, 2011, 08:29 PM
me and a group of friends are coming up to the Salmon on saturday it looks like! a Suicide from WNY. cant wait here are my pics from an  Trib this past weekend
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311320_10150449178961424_748346423_10536078_756073069_n.jpg)
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386201_2055383155206_1563403624_31543564_1796346014_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313024_2055383715220_1563403624_31543565_163126480_n.jpg)
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/389224_2055382435188_1563403624_31543563_856321291_n.jpg)
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/389515_2055385635268_1563403624_31543570_1376800661_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 07, 2011, 08:43 PM
the smallest one was a picture taker because it was suspect wild. it was chrome as can be. and not damaged fins and no marks on it at all.. it faught as hard as the bigger ones did.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 07, 2011, 09:47 PM
the smallest one was a picture taker because it was suspect wild. it was chrome as can be. and not damaged fins and no marks on it at all.. it faught as hard as the bigger ones did.

That's the 3rd pic and I would guess it's a steelhead but the others I'd guess Domestic Rainbows. Don't know if I'm right though. Nice fish boys!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 07, 2011, 09:59 PM
With an semi educated guess, I'd say the first 2 are rainbows (D) the next 2 Steelhead and the last Rainbow.  Hard to tell from the pictures and the angle that the fish are being held.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 07, 2011, 10:23 PM
actually im almost certain all were steelhead. except a possible one which was the first picture i posted.  they were not push overs and everyone jumped. except the first picture it kinda faught like a wet boot. therefor i believe it was a rainbow
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 07, 2011, 10:26 PM
That's the 3rd pic and I would guess it's a steelhead but the others I'd guess Domestic Rainbows. Don't know if I'm right though. Nice fish boys!

i threw these pics in because i fished a trib off of Lake Erie. and Lake Erie in NYS state mostly stocks Washington Strain, with some Skamania's boy they faught like steelies ill tell you that one. except for the first one. it was a wet boot like i stated before
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 07, 2011, 10:50 PM
actually im almost certain all were steelhead. except a possible one which was the first picture i posted.  they were not push overs and everyone jumped. except the first picture it kinda faught like a wet boot. therefor i believe it was a rainbow
There are many factors that determine how hard those fish will fight.  How long they've been in the river or creeks, how much oxygen is in the water, how far they traveled on any given day, water temperature and depth and last but not least, the guy on the other end of the rod.
  
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 08, 2011, 06:00 AM
ok  as  you  all  know  i been  following  this  thread  close  and  i  have  been listening  to  everyone  .  and  i  think   i know  have  the  skills  to  positivally  identify  steelhead   and  rainbows!!!!

sliver appearance  long  sleender  body shape  fights  agressivaly   
(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/jjmmcc.jpg)
STEELHEAD  FOR SURE!!!!!!!!

bright  colors blue  green hue ......shorter  stocky  body 
(http://) rainbow!!!!!

and  the   killer    bright  silvery blue  body  lots  of  facal  spots  and  color yet stocky body
(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/crappie.jpg)
a  cross!!!!!!!!!!!

i  think i  finally  got  it  down   thanks   guys

  You must be the guy that walked out of the corner hole at the dam with the lake trout !!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 08, 2011, 08:40 AM
  You must be the guy that walked out of the corner hole at the dam with the lake trout !!
Don't you mean that big rock ?  ::) 8)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 08, 2011, 09:49 AM
Don't you mean that big rock ?  ::) 8)
Right of the big rock .
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fisher7450 on Nov 08, 2011, 10:41 AM
i don't know trap 2nd one looks a washing strain thats been in the river a while  ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 08, 2011, 03:12 PM
 ::) ::) oh those are some dandies trap...  :clapping: Lake Ontario does some wonderful things too those trout dont it?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 08, 2011, 04:43 PM
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu315/ChrisPBacon91/retard.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g53/Laurie911/special_ed_article.jpg)
DE TA DE... that should sum it up...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 08, 2011, 06:11 PM
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu315/ChrisPBacon91/retard.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g53/Laurie911/special_ed_article.jpg)
DE TA DE... that should sum it up...
Shouldn't the label on that box hat say FULTON ? ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 08, 2011, 09:12 PM
more along the line say out of towners?
they are all messed up in a way to think that dying salmon are good eatin'
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 08, 2011, 10:36 PM
more along the line say out of towners?
they are all messed up in a way to think that dying salmon are good eatin'
Chinese restaurants all over Oswego County have them on their menu.   ::)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 09, 2011, 12:12 PM
you  find  humor  in  this ????  really???  thats  said  ...be  thankful  you  child  is  healthy  <<<100%  serious 
DE TA DE...    Sounds like he's singing a happy song to me .  Just left out the rest of the DA TE DA's
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 09, 2011, 02:40 PM
DE TA DE
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 09, 2011, 03:53 PM
  
 :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:


Here we go..... so your offended......

DID YOU LOSE YOUR NUTS IN THE WAR OR SOMETHING ?


Sorry Bob this thread was fun while it lasted !! :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 09, 2011, 04:41 PM
the  maturity  level  is  amaing  of  a  few  people  ,  all  because  someone   disagrees  ,   but  i  was  simply  pointing out  this  is  a  family orinated  site  ,  to  teach  children  that  it's  ok  to  poke  fun  of  mentally  challenged   people  just  isn't  right ,  lets  not   forget  that  there  are   1000's   of  members   of  this  site   ...  that  means  some  are  the  parents    or  grandparents  of  the   very  people  you  choice   to  use  as  a  joke  ....  want  to pick  on someone  frank  and  ed  ...pick  on  me  ....   only  cowards  pick  on helpless  people  that  can't  fight  back  and  are  totally  innocent  ......  and  dacker   before  you  stick up  for  them  ......  i  speaking    up  because  my  grandson  is  mentally  challenged   and  i  find  this  in  extrme  poor  taste    all  around  ......  and  i'm  not  the  only  grand  parent  or  parent    with  a     challenged   child  ......   i  stand  by  what  i  say  it's   tastless  ,inmature,and harmful  to   incent  people.................   you  two  have  a  good  laugh
I take offense to that.  Just where did anyone poke fun at a mentally challenged person ?   Read my screen name S L O W L Y !     I work in the Special Education Dept of a local school district.    My classes are made up of 8 to 10 year old kids with real life challenges every day !    They don't whine about petty issues.     They use computers every day.   Never do I see them act like you.  They don't want to look down on others.  They want to look at others and be like others. Blend in and be constructive and not obstructive.
  I've said enough.
   
   
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 09, 2011, 04:56 PM
ok  as  you  all  know  i been  following  this  thread  close  and  i  have  been listening  to  everyone  .  and  i  think   i know  have  the  skills  to  positivally  identify  steelhead   and  rainbows!!!!

sliver appearance  long  sleender  body shape  fights  agressivaly    
(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/jjmmcc.jpg)
STEELHEAD  FOR SURE!!!!!!!!

bright  colors blue  green hue ......shorter  stocky  body  
(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/gill.jpg)
rainbow!!!!

and  the   killer    bright  silvery blue  body  lots  of  facal  spots  and  color yet stocky body
(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/crappie.jpg)
a  cross!!!!!!!!!!!

i  think i  finally  got  it  down   thanks   guys thanks  for  clearing  it  all up
 now  smile    and  go  have  a  good  day    fish  on
I don't see what you're talking about but the above post is as rediculous as it gets.  Those thousands of members who do visit this sight must be doing this ::) ::) when they see the majority of your posts.   Real helpful to members who're actually looking for solid information  ::)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Nov 09, 2011, 05:16 PM
well once again i am sure you can kiss this THREAD GOOD BYE ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 05:16 PM
I was thinking this site got hijacked yesterday but then said nah...............guess I was wrong. I spent most of last night getting ready for my trip up there this weekend. Tonight will be the same.

Still haven't got a chance to get to the library but I will hopefully next week sometime for that book. I'm not done on this topic unless it gets shut down.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 05:18 PM
Ut oh..........looks like Trapper got banned again..........ouch. Sorry Trap, I'll get a hold of you soon.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 09, 2011, 05:19 PM
gonna crush those steelies/bows up at the salmon saturday! can not wait. WNY invasion is coming
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Nov 09, 2011, 05:20 PM
OMG bring on the ice already  ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 05:21 PM
gonna crush those steelies/bows up at the salmon saturday! can not wait. WNY invasion is coming

Maybe I'll see you!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 09, 2011, 06:35 PM
Back to class..
Rainbow Trout
(http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/rooter1810/Fish/trout.jpg)
STEELHEAD
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/Kris08_20009/steelhead.jpg)

SEE THE DIFFERANCES?

I don't want to hear that the steelhead is not the same fish that we have here. It's a west coast fish that runs real Rivers for hundreds of miles.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 09, 2011, 07:24 PM
fishagalore. where ya gonna be fishing? because i have no clue where i will be. just gonna walk and fish
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 08:13 PM
fishagalore. where ya gonna be fishing? because i have no clue where i will be. just gonna walk and fish

Friday up high in a driftboat. Likely stay high (Altmar) afterwards. Then Saturday I'd bet we'll start down low...........Staircase/Long Bridge run. Then likely after lunch or if the action is slow back to Altmar later in the day.

Sunday, on the way out and back home, hit Oz. Last time we thought about noon and then fished til 4 pm. I'd bet we stay late into the afternoon. I'll pm my # but I don't get good reception in Altmar so it might be hit or miss unless I'm in the river. The lodge is bad reception.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Nov 09, 2011, 08:18 PM
Friday up high in a driftboat. Likely stay high (Altmar) afterwards. Then Saturday I'd bet we'll start down low...........Staircase/Long Bridge run. Then likely after lunch or if the action is slow back to Altmar later in the day.

Sunday, on the way out and back home, hit Oz. Last time we thought about noon and then fished til 4 pm. I'd bet we stay late into the afternoon. I'll pm my # but I don't get good reception in Altmar so it might be hit or miss unless I'm in the river. The lodge is bad reception.
good luck bob if i dont see you 8)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 08:20 PM
Back to class..
Rainbow Trout
(http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp117/rooter1810/Fish/trout.jpg)
STEELHEAD
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/Kris08_20009/steelhead.jpg)

SEE THE DIFFERANCES?

I don't want to hear that the steelhead is not the same fish that we have here. It's a west coast fish that runs real Rivers for hundreds of miles.

Frank, not trying to be rude but didn't we get past this? How about some of the pics where rainbow colored fish are being called Steelies like in the Syracuse.com thread griz posted? What's your take on that fish or the one I posted and called a Steelie but it looks like a Rainbow between a Steelie and Brown?

Plenty of opinions vary on the ID issue. What I want to learn is why the issue is real and can we ID those specific characteristics that help us consistently ID properly with certainty? What's your take on the pics lpv89 supplied?

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 08:20 PM
good luck bob if i dont see you 8)

Thanks HT, I need more skill than luck though. The fish are there and I've had plenty of hookups!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Nov 09, 2011, 08:26 PM
Thanks HT, I need more skill than luck though. The fish are there and I've had plenty of hookups!
bob.......use the same skills that you already know with the other rivers that you fish. and listen to snagger also. you are a smart man and you will figure out what to do. have fun is the most important thing. fish are a bonus remember that 8)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 09, 2011, 08:31 PM
bob.......use the same skills that you already know with the other rivers that you fish. and listen to snagger also. you are a smart man and you will figure out what to do. have fun is the most important thing. fish are a bonus remember that 8)

That's what keeps me coming back. Meeting nice people & having fun..........the pursuit of fish is the bonus. Good advise.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: adam2000 on Nov 09, 2011, 11:05 PM
Bob if you fish oz Sunday you will clearly see the difference before you even see the fish. Rainbows will have a much redder gill plate. They willfight but not like a steels. Rainbows do that fast short darting around where the steelies will make a run. The bows fight alot like a brown but more towards the surface withe the darting action. If you catch both you will clearly see. I used to think they where hard yo tell apart then this thread got me thinking and last Sunday we went and you could easily tell the difference as soon as the float dropped.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: adam2000 on Nov 09, 2011, 11:09 PM
me and a group of friends are coming up to the Salmon on saturday it looks like! a Suicide from WNY. cant wait here are my pics from an  Trib this past weekend
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311320_10150449178961424_748346423_10536078_756073069_n.jpg)
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386201_2055383155206_1563403624_31543564_1796346014_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313024_2055383715220_1563403624_31543565_163126480_n.jpg)
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/389224_2055382435188_1563403624_31543563_856321291_n.jpg)

(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/389515_2055385635268_1563403624_31543570_1376800661_n.jpg)
first pic bow. Rest steelies
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 10, 2011, 05:02 AM
Bump!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 10, 2011, 09:24 AM
Frank, not trying to be rude but didn't we get past this? How about some of the pics where rainbow colored fish are being called Steelies like in the Syracuse.com thread griz posted? What's your take on that fish or the one I posted and called a Steelie but it looks like a Rainbow between a Steelie and Brown?

Plenty of opinions vary on the ID issue. What I want to learn is why the issue is real and can we ID those specific characteristics that help us consistently ID properly with certainty? What's your take on the pics lpv89 supplied?


Bob, not trying to be rude either Buddy. This whole thing started on page 42 on the Oswego River post.  Re: oswego river report
« Reply #623 on: Oct 18, 2011, 05:34 PM » Reply with quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: trapper2000 on Oct 18, 2011, 03:30 PM
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm

you can't  tell  by  spots  fact  is  biologist  have  trouble  in  the  1980  they lumbed  them  alltogether ,  reason  for  this  is  that  great lake  steelhead  are  actually  just  rainbows    from a  hatchery   native  strain  west  coast  fish  appear  diffrent    ,the  debate  will  go on  forever  ...  my personal  opinion  (and  that  of  the  great lake  states)  i  think there  the  exact  same  fish   

  trap how many times do i have to show you the differance. the magnet does'nt stick to the rainbow but it does stick to a steel head. write this down for future reference 
So this where all the trouble started! The IDing of the fish was the whole post.. So now I am confused. ???
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 11, 2011, 08:20 AM
hey  Bob  i  been  having  some  fun  and   i  even  got  a  few  new  ideas  for  you  to  think  about

Steelhead are an anadromous strain of rainbow trout. That is, they spend most of there life in the ocean or in the Great Lakes and return to tributary streams to spawn.
Rainbow trout are the landlocked form, so to speak, as they do not have a tendency to migrate from one body of water to another. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission plants steelhead rather than rainbow trout in the Lake Erie drainage.

Identifying Steelhead

There isn't an easy way to tell one from the other, because they are the same species, Oncorhynchus mykiss. If you fish tributaries to the Great Lakes you are catching steelhead.
 
Steelhead can be separated from similar-looking coho and chinook salmon by looking at the inside of the mouth. The mouth is completely white in the steelhead. In the salmons, the mouth has some gray or black. Steelhead and other deepwater, big-lake rainbows are more silvery than stream fish, with less of a side stripe.

Their genetic background traces back to ocean run (migratory) rainbow trout brought here from the Pacific Northwest. Our landlocked rainbows have also come from the West, but probably did not come from ocean running strains.

An even bigger debate among steelheaders is the genetic variety or strain of steelhead caught. Some fish come from stock from the Skamania River, maybe you've heard anglers say they catch these steelhead. Often they are more sleek, not as wide at the 'shoulders' but fight like mad.

Landlocked rainbows will migrate and take on some color characteristics you will see in steelhead, but don't grow as large.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm)


heres  more
Note that due to the ambiguity in identification, many states consider any rainbow trout caught above a certain size as “steelhead” (typically 16”).  Sea-run Redband Trout are also called Steelhead and migrate along some of the same rivers.

http://wildtroutstreams.com/index.php/steelhead (http://wildtroutstreams.com/index.php/steelhead)

 i  have  also   been  reading  alot  from  the  state  of  washington  and  the  univristy    we   automaticlly  consider  the    steelhead   a  off  shoot  of  the  rainbow   when in  fact  this  is   backwards  the  steelhead   (being  a  salmoniod) is  the  normal!   the  rainbow   is  simple  the  land  locked  verison ...like  alantic  salmon  vs landlocks .

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Simplecarppieguy on Nov 12, 2011, 05:10 PM
Shouldn't the label on that box hat say FULTON ? ;D
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z105/city_slicker1007/redneck.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 12, 2011, 05:55 PM
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z105/city_slicker1007/redneck.jpg)
He isn't from Fulton... He doesn't have love tattooed on his  knuckles in Indian ink !! 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 12, 2011, 06:25 PM
He isn't from Fulton... He doesn't have love tattooed on his  knuckles in Indian ink !!  
;D ;D ;D  That's because he's been dragging them  ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 12, 2011, 07:18 PM
Bob if you fish oz Sunday you will clearly see the difference before you even see the fish. Rainbows will have a much redder gill plate. They willfight but not like a steels. Rainbows do that fast short darting around where the steelies will make a run. The bows fight alot like a brown but more towards the surface withe the darting action. If you catch both you will clearly see. I used to think they where hard yo tell apart then this thread got me thinking and last Sunday we went and you could easily tell the difference as soon as the float dropped.

Adam, don't know if you are onto something but I noted that before when Gillripper1 went with Catch the Drift. However, your analogy has me thinking too. I caught what I thought was a small 15" Rainbow today on the CP. When I told Shane what it did he said it was probably a Steelie. Here's the confusing part and what it did. First, what it did was immediately launched out of the water about 5 times and it did as much of an attempted run as possible. The confusing part is that's what happens in the Pequest River when I catch  "Rainbows". They run and they jump. So at this point I'm not really buying the fight ordeal. Maybe if I hooked a bigger one comparable to the 8.5 lb Steelie I landed yesterday I would have a better gauge but right now it's just more confusing. Add to that what JJLeaf noted about what if a fish was recently caught then recaught. That might have an impact on the theory. Fishthefalls123 caught 2 Domestics yesterday on the drift boat, Northwoods said that it was the same exact Domestic both times. Fishthefalls123 did say, however, that the fight was different when compared to his 9.5 lb Steelie. So his analysis would concur with your observations. IMO I'm still not convinced. Maybe if we hit Oz tomorow I'll see for myself.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 12, 2011, 07:19 PM
hey  Bob  i  been  having  some  fun  and   i  even  got  a  few  new  ideas  for  you  to  think  about

Steelhead are an anadromous strain of rainbow trout. That is, they spend most of there life in the ocean or in the Great Lakes and return to tributary streams to spawn.
Rainbow trout are the landlocked form, so to speak, as they do not have a tendency to migrate from one body of water to another. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission plants steelhead rather than rainbow trout in the Lake Erie drainage.

Identifying Steelhead

There isn't an easy way to tell one from the other, because they are the same species, Oncorhynchus mykiss. If you fish tributaries to the Great Lakes you are catching steelhead.
 
I read some of that on the links that were posted. Good stuff.
Steelhead can be separated from similar-looking coho and chinook salmon by looking at the inside of the mouth. The mouth is completely white in the steelhead. In the salmons, the mouth has some gray or black. Steelhead and other deepwater, big-lake rainbows are more silvery than stream fish, with less of a side stripe.

Their genetic background traces back to ocean run (migratory) rainbow trout brought here from the Pacific Northwest. Our landlocked rainbows have also come from the West, but probably did not come from ocean running strains.

An even bigger debate among steelheaders is the genetic variety or strain of steelhead caught. Some fish come from stock from the Skamania River, maybe you've heard anglers say they catch these steelhead. Often they are more sleek, not as wide at the 'shoulders' but fight like mad.

Landlocked rainbows will migrate and take on some color characteristics you will see in steelhead, but don't grow as large.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm)


heres  more
Note that due to the ambiguity in identification, many states consider any rainbow trout caught above a certain size as “steelhead” (typically 16”).  Sea-run Redband Trout are also called Steelhead and migrate along some of the same rivers.

http://wildtroutstreams.com/index.php/steelhead (http://wildtroutstreams.com/index.php/steelhead)

 i  have  also   been  reading  alot  from  the  state  of  washington  and  the  univristy    we   automaticlly  consider  the    steelhead   a  off  shoot  of  the  rainbow   when in  fact  this  is   backwards  the  steelhead   (being  a  salmoniod) is  the  normal!   the  rainbow   is  simple  the  land  locked  verison ...like  alantic  salmon  vs landlocks .



I read some of that stuff on the links that were posted. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 12, 2011, 09:11 PM
Adam, don't know if you are onto something but I noted that before when Gillripper1 went with Catch the Drift. However, your analogy has me thinking too. I caught what I thought was a small 15" Rainbow today on the CP. When I told Shane what it did he said it was probably a Steelie. Here's the confusing part and what it did. First, what it did was immediately launched out of the water about 5 times and it did as much of an attempted run as possible. The confusing part is that's what happens in the Pequest River when I catch  "Rainbows". They run and they jump. So at this point I'm not really buying the fight ordeal. Maybe if I hooked a bigger one comparable to the 8.5 lb Steelie I landed yesterday I would have a better gauge but right now it's just more confusing. Add to that what JJLeaf noted about what if a fish was recently caught then recaught. That might have an impact on the theory. Fishthefalls123 caught 2 Domestics yesterday on the drift boat, Northwoods said that it was the same exact Domestic both times. Fishthefalls123 did say, however, that the fight was different when compared to his 9.5 lb Steelie. So his analysis would concur with your observations. IMO I'm still not convinced. Maybe if we hit Oz tomorow I'll see for myself.
   yeah I also notice that the rainbows hardly ever jump . And Steelhead jump numerous times ,Take long hard runs . And headshake a lot more. you can tell a lot easier on the Sr. When I was fishing out west , it seemed that we were gettin ones that looked totally different than either a rainbow our a Steelhead. All in the same place .
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 12, 2011, 09:17 PM
I know its a bad pic but what is this (http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0356.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 12, 2011, 09:23 PM
I know this is a rainbow (http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/imagejpeg_2_9.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 12, 2011, 09:37 PM
Here's another one I didn't know what it was (http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0373.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 13, 2011, 04:21 AM
bob  i'm sorry  i  didn't  get  to hook up  with you!  perhaps  next  time , good news all seems  well  just took a long time  at  the  hospital...  hop  ya  knock  the  spots  off them  good  luck
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 13, 2011, 08:59 AM
And I know this is a Steelhead .(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0265.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 14, 2011, 04:38 AM
And I know this is a Steelhead .(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0265.jpg)

That's for sure LD!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 14, 2011, 05:41 PM
bob  i'm sorry  i  didn't  get  to hook up  with you!  perhaps  next  time , good news all seems  well  just took a long time  at  the  hospital...  hop  ya  knock  the  spots  off them  good  luck

Glad to hear all went well. Maybe in Dec. ............1st or 2nd weekend.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 14, 2011, 05:49 PM
Got the book "An Entirely Synthetic Fish" coming to my local library probably by the weeks end. Only one copy is in the system among the many libraries in the county. Maybe I'll get to start it this weekend.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 14, 2011, 07:01 PM
I know its a bad pic but what is this (http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0356.jpg)
that would be a Jack King. probally came into the river to eat some eggs  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 14, 2011, 07:08 PM
No it was some kind of Steelhead. It's just a bad pic.Deff not a king  ::)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 14, 2011, 07:38 PM
too me looks like a king. ive caught a few like that this year. you can tell by the thick back and the spot.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: adam2000 on Nov 14, 2011, 08:50 PM
Its not a king. Hard to tell with the way the color is. Does kinda look like one and your post made me look again. Look at the anal fin. Def not a king
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: BAZOOKAJOE on Nov 15, 2011, 12:50 PM
Def a bow!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 15, 2011, 01:20 PM
im still stuck on that the first blue picture is a really fresh jack. i even asked a couple of my buddies they said jack as well. maybe its just the picture throwing it off. but the spots on the top side of its back make it seem more king
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lpv89 on Nov 15, 2011, 01:22 PM
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314036_10150350680391424_748346423_9844655_4694547_n.jpg)

heres one of the many jacks i have caught likes might similar to the first blue picture. just been in the creek maybe a little longer so it has a more yellowish tint
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: lakerdave on Nov 15, 2011, 02:58 PM
No man deff a Steelhead. It looks nothing like the pic u posted. I know what a king looks like .
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: adam2000 on Nov 15, 2011, 05:15 PM
im still stuck on that the first blue picture is a really fresh jack. i even asked a couple of my buddies they said jack as well. maybe its just the picture throwing it off. but the spots on the top side of its back make it seem more king
its cause of the color. Its a steelies. Look at the anal fin then compare that to the pic you posted
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 15, 2011, 06:34 PM
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314036_10150350680391424_748346423_9844655_4694547_n.jpg)

heres one of the many jacks i have caught likes might similar to the first blue picture. just been in the creek maybe a little longer so it has a more yellowish tint

Go to the Salmon River picture posts thread on p120 and look at Centerpindrews photo's of a King & Steelie. You'll see the difference real fast in those shots. Meaning, that of the anal fin.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 15, 2011, 07:02 PM
yeah  lakerdave  that  right  there   from  color   shape   traits  ....  i'm  going  out  on  a  limb   here  and  saying  thats   a Oncorhynchus mykiss!!!!   i'm  pretty   positive   of  this  call

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 15, 2011, 08:28 PM
yeah  lakerdave  that  right  there   from  color   shape   traits  ....  i'm  going  out  on  a  limb   here  and  saying  thats   a Oncorhynchus mykiss!!!!   i'm  pretty   positive   of  this  call



The problem with that Trapper is that O Mykiss has been kissing to many other O Mykiss and making even more O Mykiss so that you can't tell one O Mykiss from another!   :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 15, 2011, 08:57 PM
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314036_10150350680391424_748346423_9844655_4694547_n.jpg)

 (http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/bangtruck88/IMAG0356.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 16, 2011, 05:28 AM
so  fg  your  saying Oncorhynchus mykiss may be a pretty fish  but  is a  fish  with  low  moral  standards?????   :rotflol:

fg  something  i  really  have  finally  grasp is  ...the  steelhead  is  the  natural  lifestyle  for Oncorhynchus mykiss the land  lock  is  the  off  shoot  ...but  it's  not  a  physical  change  it's  simply  a  change  in there  envoriment  .....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 16, 2011, 03:54 PM
so  fg  your  saying Oncorhynchus mykiss may be a pretty fish  but  is a  fish  with  low  moral  standards?????   :rotflol:

fg  something  i  really  have  finally  grasp is  ...the  steelhead  is  the  natural  lifestyle  for Oncorhynchus mykiss the land  lock  is  the  off  shoot  ...but  it's  not  a  physical  change  it's  simply  a  change  in there  envoriment  .....

Yep, that's what I think..............bunch of whoremonger madams they are!

In the Great Lakes they are land locked (O Mykiss), so to speak since they can't go out to the ocean. Therefore,  the Steelies O Mykiss Irideus (coastal) go out to the Lake instead and return. The subspecies, river dwelling beasts, are no match for their counterparts in some respects as a result.  According to the link I'm posting the Steelies are part time river dwellers and part time (ocean or Great Lakes) big water dwellers. So the primary difference is size, color, migration and they dominate the river when they return (whatever that means) providing a superior fight for anglers. They must bully their sibling counterparts.  :rotflol: Same exact fish different lifestyle, characteristics and or features that set them apart. That means they are so closely alike that, in some cases, they would be virtually impossible to tell apart.   ??? :unsure: :wacko:

http://bss.sfsu.edu/holzman/courses/fall01%20projects/rainbow%20trout.htm (http://bss.sfsu.edu/holzman/courses/fall01%20projects/rainbow%20trout.htm)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: bigredfishing on Nov 16, 2011, 04:07 PM
How about this for a rainbow vs steelhead comparison

sockeye salmon vs. Kokanee Salmon  - same species but very different strains.

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: BAZOOKAJOE on Nov 16, 2011, 04:47 PM
I've had some fall spawning bows that have fought like steel!   Big jumps and scorching runs!!  ;)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 16, 2011, 05:17 PM
I've had some fall spawning bows that have fought like steel!   Big jumps and scorching runs!!  ;)
.... the males are very aggressive this time off year !! 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 16, 2011, 05:31 PM
.... the males are very aggressive this time off year !! 
Saw one caught by a young kid Monday afternoon in Oswego .  Almost pulled him over the railing  :o :o   Pretty acrobatic for a rainbow but like you said, they're a bit frisky in the late fall months
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 16, 2011, 08:13 PM
How about this for a rainbow vs steelhead comparison

sockeye salmon vs. Kokanee Salmon  - same species but very different strains.



Cool...............http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsandplants/salmon-and-trout/identification/kokanee.aspx (http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsandplants/salmon-and-trout/identification/kokanee.aspx)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockeye_salmon  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockeye_salmon)      Glanced at it.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 29, 2011, 05:21 PM
Bulletin:- This just in...............An Entirely Synthetic Fish. I'm going to read tonight.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 29, 2011, 06:20 PM
Bulletin:- This just in...............An Entirely Synthetic Fish. I'm going to read tonight.

very  cool!!!!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 29, 2011, 07:23 PM
very  cool!!!!!
Have you caught a rainbow with loose eggs yet ??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: drowndin dots on Nov 29, 2011, 07:34 PM



    Snag did a few days ago really loose
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Nov 29, 2011, 07:37 PM
Have you caught a rainbow with loose eggs yet ??

no never have and  thats  the  thing  mich  and  washington aRE REPORTING SOME STEELHEAD SPAWNING  IN LATE  FALL EARLY WINTER  NOW  .....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: esox v on Nov 29, 2011, 08:00 PM
no never have and  thats  the  thing  mich  and  washington aRE REPORTING SOME STEELHEAD SPAWNING  IN LATE  FALL EARLY WINTER  NOW  .....
DO YOU REALLY FISH ? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 29, 2011, 08:12 PM
Gents,

Read my report from the Pequest on Saturday here:- http://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/index.php?topic=42420.15 (http://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/index.php?topic=42420.15)


Fall Spawning:- The runway that can be seen in the background of the 2nd and 3rd pics (from Saturday) leads to the hatchery. Mike went up there to look on Monday while fishing. He said there were some bruisers trying to get back to the hatchery just like at the Salmon River.  These must have been the ones releasing their eggs. He said a few were in the 8-10 lb range. Cool stuff and an education too! He slammed em yesterday too on a mix of flies and beads. Not as active on the beads though.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 29, 2011, 09:17 PM
Here's some history of the Salmon River. It's natural environment was all but decimated and went from an abundance of fish (Atlantics) in the early 19th century to extinct by the turn of the 20th. Limited Rainbows and Browns remained in the early part of the 20th century and other species are stocked. Limited or no success for Salmonid stocking programs through to 1978 due to poor water quality (contamination) and sea lamprey predation. It's only been revived in the past 31 yrs. due to managed and organized efforts to abate the many obstacles that man created. So we have come full circle but many obstacles remain. However, we are reaping the benefits of what can be thought of as a successful plan. We need to preserve it for future generations.

http://www.fisherie.com/Library_One.asp?Article_ID=11 (http://www.fisherie.com/Library_One.asp?Article_ID=11)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Nov 29, 2011, 09:54 PM
Bulletin:- This just in...............An Entirely Synthetic Fish. I'm going to read tonight.

So far the book is about how a fledgling growing nation (America) caused extreme problems for the natural environment as it was becoming a world leader. The expansion of the nation brought many opportunities and challenges. Normal living took huge efforts to sustain life by hunting, fishing and working the landscape. Expansion created many jobs but also took it's toll on the land and in particular many rivers and the natural fisheries that existed. Industry was responsible for the decline. One crew of fish culturists visited the McCloud River in Northern California in 1872 looking for a solution to this decline of the fisheries of New England. This new fish culture was the artificial propagation of fish through manipulated means that had been tested and documented by several who experimented with the idea. More to come. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Nov 30, 2011, 12:47 AM
DO YOU REALLY FISH ? ;D ;D ;D
Every Day  ::) ::) ::) :cookoo: :cookoo: :sleep1: :sleep1:
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: bcons on Nov 30, 2011, 02:20 PM
 
Every Day  ::) ::) ::) :cookoo: :cookoo: :sleep1: :sleep1:

 :nono: :nono: :nono:   "No!!! no soup for you!"  I believe it says somewhere those without at least  300 posts are not allowed to be smarta&^  :P :P
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 05:05 AM
Ok a quiz for those who are interested.

Who is Seth Green? (hint:- not the contemporary person...........another hint........fish fauna).

What fish type was the first propagated from it's native habitat in America? What company was used to ship these fish?

Who was the 1st to propagate the Rainbow trout?  No one will get this one even with the hint........Hint:-OPASC

What 2 specific states were involved in the very 1st propagation of Rainbow trout? I fixed the question.  

I will post the answers tonight if no one gets them correct.

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Dec 04, 2011, 06:53 AM
Ok a quiz for those who are interested.

Who is Seth Green? (hint:- not the contemporary person...........another hint........fish fauna).

What fish type was the first propagated from it's native habitat in America? What company was used to ship these fish?

Who was the 1st to propagate the Rainbow trout?  No one will get this one even with the hint........Hint:-OPASC

What 2 specific states were involved in the propagation of Rainbow trout?

I will post the answers tonight if no one gets them correct.


NO GOOGLE ALLOWED !! ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 08:20 AM
NO GOOGLE ALLOWED !! ;) ;) ;D

Most would not have a clue without google.................google is ok as long as they learn something IMO.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: shark on Dec 04, 2011, 08:59 AM
Seth Green is   Red Greens brother ,         He uses electrical tape insteads of Duct tape.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rgfixit on Dec 04, 2011, 09:02 AM
Didn't he play Goldmember's son in Austin Powers?
RG
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rgfixit on Dec 04, 2011, 09:26 AM
I really do know ;D

RG
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 11:39 AM
Didn't he play Goldmember's son in Austin Powers?
RG

I believe so haha. 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 11:40 AM
I really do know ;D

RG

Do you know all the answers or just the answer to the 1st question?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 11:47 AM
Seth Green is   Red Greens brother ,         He uses electrical tape insteads of Duct tape.


BOBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!! Wrong answer.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 04, 2011, 12:14 PM
What fish type was the first propagated from it's native habitat in America.... i  believe  brook  trout  
first  2  states  i  believe  were    new  york  and    NC

Who was the 1st to propagate the Rainbow trout ...  CA? (first  hatchery  anyways )   first   state  stockings  were  in  Oklahoma


Seth Green is   Red Greens brother ,         He uses electrical tape insteads of Duct tape"   and  this  is  true  ....  i  don'y  know  why  anyone  would  perfer   electrical  tape  over  duct    but  he  does

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rgfixit on Dec 04, 2011, 01:43 PM
No, I don't know all the answers.
Seth Green is purported to be the father of modern American aquaculture.....fish farming.

I also believe that the Brook Trout was the first, or one of the first, fish raised right in my area, West Bloomfield by Steven Ainsworth and that Seth Green used what he learned from Ainsworth to make a ton of money raising fish for commercial sale somewhere in NY.
Read a few of Seth Green's book on fishing the Finger lakes many years ago. I'll have to see if I can dig them up.

RG
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 04, 2011, 02:28 PM
i  love  this  thread ,  the  opinions  th  facts  the  history  .....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 02:54 PM
What fish type was the first propagated from it's native habitat in America.... i  believe  brook  trout  
first  2  states  i  believe  were    new  york  and    NC

Who was the 1st to propagate the Rainbow trout ...  CA? (first  hatchery  anyways )   first   state  stockings  were  in  Oklahoma


Seth Green is   Red Greens brother ,         He uses electrical tape insteads of Duct tape"   and  this  is  true  ....  i  don'y  know  why  anyone  would  perfer   electrical  tape  over  duct    but  he  does


Trapp, I give you half credit for your answer..........since Brook trout are native to the Eastern part of the country not the whole of America. They were found as far west as Eastern Iowa.........in the heartland. Therefore, they were propagated where they were already native!

The answer I was looking for was the Pacific Salmon..............known also as the Chinook or King Salmon. The company that was used to ship them was Wells Fargo!

RG...............good job. Every NY fisherman should know this stuff. They should teach it in the classroom. You will see how interesting the Seth Green answer becomes!!

I will list the answers now.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 03:08 PM
Ok a quiz for those who are interested.

Who is Seth Green? (hint:- not the contemporary person...........another hint........fish fauna).

Here are 2 links for your answer........http://www.sethgreentu.org/ (http://www.sethgreentu.org/)

This one is even more intriguing:- http://www.cal-mum.com/fishhatchery.htm (http://www.cal-mum.com/fishhatchery.htm)

Caledonia Fish Hatchery was the first fish hatchery in the western hemisphere. The hatchery was first started in 1864 by the father of fish culture, Seth Green. In 1870 Caledonia was acquired by New York State. The hatchery specializes in raising brown trout and has a capacity to produce over 800,000 trout a year.

What fish type was the first propagated from it's native habitat in America? What company was used to ship these fish?

Pacific Salmon & Wells Fargo

Who was the 1st to propagate the Rainbow trout?  No one will get this one even with the hint........Hint:-OPASC

Ornithological and Piscatorial Acclimatiizing Society of California

What 2 specific states were involved in the very 1st propagation of Rainbow trout? I fixed the question.  

California & New York


It is no surprise on the one hand that NY is a key player in the history of fish culture. For those who think it's second to the West Coast or even less important than that are sadly mistaken. It is no wonder why the NY region is one of the top fisheries in the Western Hemisphere IMO.

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Special Ed on Dec 04, 2011, 03:35 PM



It is no surprise on the one hand that NY is a key player in the history of fish culture. For those who think it's second to the West Coast or even less important than that are sadly mistaken. It is no wonder why the NY region is one of the top fisheries in the Western Hemisphere IMO.


[/quote]It may have been the other way around had the pilgrims landed in Sacremento  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 04, 2011, 03:51 PM


It is no surprise on the one hand that NY is a key player in the history of fish culture. For those who think it's second to the West Coast or even less important than that are sadly mistaken. It is no wonder why the NY region is one of the top fisheries in the Western Hemisphere IMO.


It may have been the other way around had the pilgrims landed in Sacremento  ;D ;D

Yeah, and if my aunt had ba11s she'd have been my uncle !
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 04, 2011, 03:58 PM
RG...............good job. Every NY fisherman should know this stuff. They should teach it in the classroom. You will see how interesting the Seth Green answer becomes!!

UNFAIR   RG   use  to  drive  a  stage  coach  for  wells  fargo!!!!!



very  cool  fish  i  enjoyed  that !
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rgfixit on Dec 05, 2011, 02:32 AM
You probably know this , but Seth Green was also Superintendent of Fisheries in NY  in the late 1800's.

RG
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Lunch_Box on Dec 05, 2011, 01:16 PM
When I was a kid and before down riggers where invented I think, or economical my grandfather used to fish Seth green rigs on Seneca and Cayuga lake.  They used to work great!!!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: shark on Dec 05, 2011, 01:33 PM
When I was a kid and before down riggers where invented I think, or economical my grandfather used to fish Seth green rigs on Seneca and Cayuga lake.  They used to work great!!!!
   They are still used today.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rgfixit on Dec 05, 2011, 03:14 PM

UNFAIR   RG   use  to  drive  a  stage  coach  for  wells  fargo!!!!!

You oughta know...you rode shotgun ya old fart!

 ;D

RG
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 05, 2011, 03:25 PM
 i  used  5.56 ball ammo  in  my  mini  14  and  we  got  threw  :rotflol: .........sorry  RG  i'll  behave ..............sorta



hey  is  a  12  ga  using  damascus barrels still a  12  ga?  thats  my  stage   coach  gun ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: oatkasut on Dec 05, 2011, 05:17 PM
Seth Green was born on Ridge Rd. and Culver Rd. on the Irondequoit/Rochester ,NY  border and developed a  love for fish by his study of them in the Genesee river. The Caledonia fish hatchery raises all the 2 year old browns for the state of New york plus alot more.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 05, 2011, 05:40 PM
i  think  we  need another  fishing  quiz    ;D

 i  wonder   was  the   raising  of  rainbows  here  because  of  the  need   to  fed   NYC??
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 05, 2011, 06:47 PM
Seth Green was born on Ridge Rd. and Culver Rd. on the Irondequoit/Rochester ,NY  border and developed a  love for fish by his study of them in the Genesee river. The Caledonia fish hatchery raises all the 2 year old browns for the state of New york plus alot more.

yes sir, good stuff!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishit on Dec 05, 2011, 06:49 PM
Seth Green was born on Ridge Rd. and Culver Rd. on the Irondequoit/Rochester ,NY  border and developed a  love for fish by his study of them in the Genesee river. The Caledonia fish hatchery raises all the 2 year old browns for the state of New york plus alot more.

Not "all" of the 2 year old trout for the state are raised at Caledonia, they do a great job...On a side note if you ever get a chance to fish the Mill creek that supplies water for Caledonia it has a strain of brown trout in it that have red spots on their dorsal fins, very rare and very cool...I will look for some of the pictures I have...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 05, 2011, 07:03 PM
i  think  we  need another  fishing  quiz    ;D



Here's your quiz:-

Who, after graduating from Harvard and pastored a Unitarian Church in New Hamphire, left the ministry presumably to pursue fish culture and built a hatchery in California for the federal government?

On what river was the hatchery to be built in California?

Who helped him with that task? What fish were they to send back east?

What Indian Tribe in California was a threat to their safety upon arriving there?

How many fish did they catch that had not already spawned to harvest their eggs? How many eggs did they get?

I will post the answers some time after 10 pm tonight. Time to decorate the tree with my daughter.

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 05, 2011, 09:22 PM

Here's your quiz:- 

Who, after graduating from Harvard and pastored a Unitarian Church in New Hamphire, left the ministry presumably to pursue fish culture and built a hatchery in California for the federal government?

Livingston Stone

On what river was the hatchery to be built in California?

McCloud River........ 50 miles north of the railroad terminus at the town of Red Bluff. It was here that they struggled to identify another species that they sometimes caught..........the Indians called it "syoolott" namely the Rainbow Trout.

Who helped him with that task? His nephew Willard Perrin & Vermonter Myron Green

What fish were they to send back east? Pacific Salmon

What Indian Tribe in California was a threat to their safety upon arriving there? Wintu

How many fish did they catch that had not already spawned to harvest their eggs? Only 26

How many eggs did they get? but one bucket.........which was shipped via Wells Fargo back east and the fry from these were stocked in the Susquehanna River and never seen again.



Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 05, 2011, 09:31 PM
thats  pretty  cool   ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishingjason on Dec 06, 2011, 05:32 PM
Very interesting information keeps coming....
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishingjason on Dec 06, 2011, 05:34 PM
Can anyone identify this one?

Nice catch fishit.
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/fishingjason/PC050419-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Dec 06, 2011, 05:45 PM
looks like a nice trout to me 8) its not a salmon ;D. good one
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: monic20 on Dec 06, 2011, 05:57 PM
Nice bow love the colors!! I see background then i dont lol keep them ditch.es close Jason..
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: SNAGGER on Dec 06, 2011, 05:59 PM


  Some day I'll have to read this thread. nice double bar Jason.  ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishingjason on Dec 06, 2011, 06:37 PM
Funny. No ditches . It was Fuccillo size water.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 06, 2011, 06:45 PM
Can anyone identify this one?

Nice catch fishit.
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/fishingjason/PC050419-1-1.jpg)

There is a thread on SC that I got involved in over the same exact ID issue. I'll give you my 2 cents. It's a Steelie! There was little agreement on SC and here is the link for those interested.........its about 4 pages but the pic is the second fish in the 1st post over there. You will see it's almost exactly the same except the fish posted here is fatter.


Here's a quote from a poster over there that I think is pertinent:-

Posted by Setterman on the top of p4. My post is on p 3.

Nice Fish! I've seen a lot of those "domestic rainbows" over the past few years. With that being said, I'll give you my two cents. The colored up fish is a skamania, not a "domestic rainbow". In my eyes, the double band is the giveaway. I fish certain areas with a mix of bows and steelhead. When they are both in there at the same time, its very easy to tell the difference. The bows we catch this time of year are indeed fall spawners. The steelhead are not, with the exception of the rare skamania. The bows tend to have a deeper body than the steelies, are colored up, and the males have a HUGE mouth. I'll try to dig up a few pics to post...

Compare the two fish by viewing here:-  http://www.salmoncrazy.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53300-let-the-good-times-roll/ (http://www.salmoncrazy.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53300-let-the-good-times-roll/)

BTW:- Beautiful beast of a fish that is Fishit!



Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 06, 2011, 06:51 PM
skamania spawn  in  spring  they  just  enter  water  earlier 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 06, 2011, 06:57 PM
skamania spawn  in  spring  they  just  enter  water  earlier  

Oops Trapp, got you on this one.................

The last sentence in the link provided of point #4..........................says about Skamania..................."They have also been manipulated thru fish culture to spawn in the fall unlike the natural spring spawning of rainbows & steelhead."

I know you will find this interesting.............You can read it here:- http://www.fishthesalmonriver.com/article582.html (http://www.fishthesalmonriver.com/article582.html)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 06, 2011, 07:21 PM
Here's some more info from a 2004 DEC report...................a quote from p 16 on the right hand column top 1/3 of the paragraph:-

"The dominant strains
stocked since 1980 have been Washington strain
steelhead, Skamania strain steelhead, and Randolph
strain domestic rainbow trout, all stocked by DEC,
and Ganaraska strain steelhead stocked by the
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources (OMNR).
Most of these fish have been stocked without fin
clips or other identifying marks, and as a result,
cannot be separated by visual inspection from each
other or from the naturally produced fish."

Taken from here.......NYSDEC Lake Ontario Annual Report 2004:- http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt04sec2.pdf (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt04sec2.pdf)

I'd guess that opinions vary within the DEC as well and may be a point of contention even among the most trained eyes on the topic. We've said it before and it may be the ONLY REAL way to find out............a genetic test of some sort is likely the only way possible to ID them with absolute 100 % certainty.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: adam2000 on Dec 06, 2011, 07:23 PM
Funny. No ditches . It was Fuccillo size water.
its definetly no ditch
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 06, 2011, 07:31 PM
now  fish question  if  we take  a  strain   of  fish  then manipulate it when does it stop being the orinal strain and become  the  lake ontario strain????.....

."They have also been manipulated thru fish culture to spawn in the fall unlike the natural spring spawning of rainbows & steelhead." i  had  read and  commented  on some  steelhead  reportly  fall spawning  in fact  theres  lake  erie  reports  and  west  coast reports  also  ....very interesting  ....  i still  believe  what i have  said  right  along  you  can't  id  by appearance  alone  ..amazing   stuff ....however i  have a  coin  that amazingly  as accurite  as  we are at guessing!!!! 



Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 06, 2011, 07:43 PM
now  fish question  if  we take  a  strain   of  fish  then manipulate it when does it stop being the orinal strain  and become  the  lake ontario strain????.....

EXACTLY! Natural production is occurring and well I'd guess some cross breeding must be happening too!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: monic20 on Dec 06, 2011, 07:56 PM
Funny. No ditches . It was Fuccillo size water.

I know but its a quick spot for everyone to head too instead of sr...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 06, 2011, 08:43 PM
What I'm finding is that no one, not a biologist, experienced fisherman, fish culturist, etc., etc., ad infinitum can successfully 100 % proof positive ID the specific strain of fish by a visual inspection. My hunch is now confirmed, albeit ahead of my reading schedule.

I have resisted reading specific information relative to this discussion ahead of time but I cannot do it any longer. So here's some more confusing information from the book. I have fast forwarded in reading the specific info. in advance of actually getting there.

From a paragraph on p 51 while discussing 2 distinct life forms, namely rainbows ( a more adventurous variety called steelhead) and cutthroats (spend all their life in freshwater).

"How these 2 different life forms evolved is unclear and will likely remain mysterious for some time to come, even if molecular biologists are able to find the gene or genes that cause some fish to head for the open ocean and others to remain at home. However, it has led to some serious taxonomic difficulties. Unlike the steelhead, resident rainbow trout may reach sexual maturity when they are no more than eight inches long and weigh less than a pound. Yet because they are the same species, resident rainbows and steelhead occasionally interbreed, thereby transferring genes from one population to another. And because they commonly return to the stream in which they hatched to spawn, steelhead are usually more closely related to the resident rainbows in their spawning streams than they are to other steelhead in other parts of the same watershed."

There is more to come but it'll have to wait for now. "Chew on this" for now.

If this don't make your head spin then I don't know what will!!!!    (http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/PlatPat/confused.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 07, 2011, 07:51 PM
Taken from here.......NYSDEC Lake Ontario Annual Report 2004:- http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt04sec2.pdf


well  worth the  read   
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 07, 2011, 07:55 PM
looks like a nice trout to me 8) its not a salmon ;D. good one

HT I think that's the most accurate ID'ing we can have! Good post!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 07, 2011, 08:02 PM
looks like a nice trout to me 8) its not a salmon ;D. good one

 :rotflol:  :rotflol: The rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) is a species of salmonid native ...... :rotflol: :rotflol:SALMONIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just  picking
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: H.T. on Dec 07, 2011, 08:06 PM
if your hungry -rope it and we will find out what it really is later :P ??? ;D
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 07, 2011, 08:07 PM
:rotflol:  :rotflol: The rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) is a species of salmonid native ...... :rotflol: :rotflol:SALMONIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just  picking

When I get there I will give more details but I saw bits and pieces yesterday. Before they were classified as O Mykiss they were classified in the Salmonoid family and it caused a bit of a stir because Salmon spawn and die while Trout do not die following the spawn. That's been part of the problematic taxonomic rank issue with these fish. The same, similar and yet different.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 07, 2011, 08:08 PM
if your hungry -rope it and we will find out what it really is later :P ??? ;D

Yum............I like that idea!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 07, 2011, 08:08 PM
When I get there I will give more details but I saw bits and pieces yesterday. Before they were classified as O Mykiss they were classified in the Salmonoid family and it caused a bit of a stir because Salmon spawn and die while Trout do not die following the spawn. That's been part of the problematic taxonomic rank issue with these fish. The same, similar and yet different.

alantics   don't  die 
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 07, 2011, 08:15 PM
alantics   don't  die 

Correct, I should have specified Pacific............but the Pacific were needed since the Atlantics became extinct by 1872 in LO. Remember O Mykiss were found among the Pacific Salmon and then eventually they were both propagated east!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 13, 2011, 03:47 PM
Can anyone identify this one?
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/fishingjason/PC050419-1-1.jpg)

Well what's the verdict?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Dec 13, 2011, 04:15 PM
verdict  is  in !!!!  thats  a Oncorhynchus mykiss for  sure!!!!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 13, 2011, 05:05 PM
verdict  is  in !!!!  thats  a Oncorhynchus mykiss for  sure!!!!!

Another quiz:-

In its first year of operation (1879), Stones trout hatchery on the McCloud River cultured more than how many eggs?

In 6 years the US Fish Commission had propagated rainbows to how many of the 38 states in the union?

Who was the 1st to describe rainbow trout to a western audience?  Hint:- Great Northern Expedition-Naturalist


In 1792 what became the 1st official Latin name for the rainbow trout? Hint: 2 words......... it remained that way for about 127 yrs.

The difficulty of the taxonomic task can be seen by this fact........."But over the next century, other taxonomists took up the challenge where Stone left off. They split the rainbows into as many as 16 different species or combined them into a single species, depending on whether they were splitters or lumpers." (look up that phrase)

When (what year) did the new Latin name for the species known also as the rainbow trout change to the present form?

What is the technical term to describe a species that spawns more than once and doesn't die afterward?

What is the technical term to describe a species that spawns only once and then dies?

Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 13, 2011, 08:02 PM


Another quiz:-

In its first year of operation (1879), Stones trout hatchery on the McCloud River cultured more than how many eggs? more than a quarter million eggs

In 6 years the US Fish Commission had propagated rainbows to how many of the 38 states in the union? 33............Also England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Canada & Mexico

Who was the 1st to describe rainbow trout to a western audience?  Hint:- Great Northern Expedition-Naturalist
Georg Wilhelm Steller


In 1792 what became the 1st official Latin name for the rainbow trout? Hint: 2 words......... it remained that way for about 127 yrs.
Salmo Mykiss

The difficulty of the taxonomic task can be seen by this fact........."But over the next century, other taxonomists took up the challenge where Stone left off. They split the rainbows into as many as 16 different species or combined them into a single species, depending on whether they were splitters or lumpers." (look up that phrase)

When (what year) did the new Latin name for the species known also as the rainbow trout change to the present form? 1988  Oncorhynchus mykiss

What is the technical term to describe a species that spawns more than once and doesn't die afterward? iteroparous

What is the technical term to describe a species that spawns only once and then dies? semelparous


Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 18, 2011, 09:09 PM
True or false # 1-5


1).......fishing was primarily a rich, ruling class, aristocratic gentlemans sport from the late 19th to early 20th century?


2).........Industrialization was a major factor for private fishing clubs to spring up?


3)..........Trout populations nearby urban areas became fish wastelands forcing anglers to find them elsewhere?


4)...........The Connetquot river is still known as a place where "catching" not fishing is done.


5) ...........trout were viewed much differently than other fish such as catfish.



6) Name the "game" fish and other fish constituted as "rough or course."
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Dec 19, 2011, 09:14 PM
True or false # 1-5


1).......fishing was primarily a rich, ruling class, aristocratic gentlemans sport from the late 19th to early 20th century?


2).........Industrialization was a major factor for private fishing clubs to spring up?


3)..........Trout populations nearby urban areas became fish wastelands forcing anglers to find them elsewhere?


4)...........The Connetquot river is still known as a place where "catching" not fishing is done.


5) ...........trout were viewed much differently than other fish such as catfish.



6) Name the "game" fish and other fish constituted as "rough or course."


The answer for #1-5 are all TRUE.

6) Obviously, Trout were "game" fish and so were Salmon. Catfish were viewed with disdain as scavengers that lurked in stagnant and unclean water. They were the lowest of low on the spectrum so much so many didn't even want to handle them but would kick them back into the water.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Jan 02, 2012, 08:19 PM
Here's link which may or may not be helpful. I may try to register.

http://www.fws.gov/warmsprings/nfsr/ (http://www.fws.gov/warmsprings/nfsr/)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 08, 2012, 10:48 PM
Came across this baby tonight for those who may be interested.

http://fishingwithjay.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/jay-nicholas-residency-anadromy-mykiss-02252011/ (http://fishingwithjay.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/jay-nicholas-residency-anadromy-mykiss-02252011/)

And this one too! Especially p iii
http://www.fishsciences.net/reports/2005/MidColSthdReportFinal18Mar2005.pdf (http://www.fishsciences.net/reports/2005/MidColSthdReportFinal18Mar2005.pdf)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 08, 2012, 11:00 PM
Definition of ESU  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_Significant_Unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_Significant_Unit)

And another good report:- http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/species/steelhead_detailed.pdf (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/species/steelhead_detailed.pdf)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Oct 09, 2012, 08:45 PM
this   is  a  observation  that  i  witnessed  year  after  year      i  have  noticed   that  in  the  fall  when  the  first  steelers  start  showing  up   that  i  see   lots  of  them  hanging  tight  to  shore ,  not  sure  why  but  just  something  i  have  noticed  later  on   they  are    out  aways  .....  any  one  ever  catch  a  steelie  on  a  dry  fly  in  the  east?
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 09, 2012, 09:35 PM
this   is  a  observation  that  i  witnessed  year  after  year      i  have  noticed   that  in  the  fall  when  the  first  steelers  start  showing  up   that  i  see   lots  of  them  hanging  tight  to  shore ,  not  sure  why  but  just  something  i  have  noticed  later  on   they  are    out  aways  .....  any  one  ever  catch  a  steelie  on  a  dry  fly  in  the  east?

YES! Trapper I have no experience on this matter but a google yielded this:- http://www.pasteelhead.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1326662 (http://www.pasteelhead.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1326662)
http://www.fisherie.com/LibraryArticles/Erie_Steelhead_on_a_Dry_Fly.aspx (http://www.fisherie.com/LibraryArticles/Erie_Steelhead_on_a_Dry_Fly.aspx)

http://www.johnnagysteelheadguide.com/2009/08/dos-and-donts-of-fall-steelheading.html (http://www.johnnagysteelheadguide.com/2009/08/dos-and-donts-of-fall-steelheading.html)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Oct 10, 2012, 10:15 AM
interesting!!!! i  have  often  wondered  are  the  steelhead  i'm  watch   near  the  shore  line  in  the  shallows   looking  for  easy  eggs  for  dinner  or  a  nymph   but .....  late  sept   early   oct   still  has  a  lot  of  hoopers  bee's  and  beetles   to  be  had  .........  i  don't  know  and  this  could  all  be  wishful  thinking  but    from  what  i  have  seen  ....  it  looks  like  rainbows  setting  up  in  feeding  lanes  ,,,admittly  i  have  not  seen  them  rise  to  anything  and   other  then  in  a  few  tribs   it  isn't  long  till a  salmon  fisherman  passes  by  scarying  them  back  to  the  deep
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: rickswny on Oct 10, 2012, 05:12 PM
I catch steelhead fly fishing a mouse fly on the surface.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 10, 2012, 05:26 PM
I catch steelhead fly fishing a mouse fly on the surface.

Thats pretty cool stuff. I was fly fishing a blue ribbon stream in NJ about 4-6 weeks ago and while fishing I heard something hit the water about 25' feet from me. When I looked it was a mouse that fell out of a tree. It swam about 20' to shore. It was late afternoon. My brother & I have discussed many times that the Browns likely feed on such stuff at night. We want to try it one day as you can fish overnight here unlike up there. I'd bet the bigger bows & or Brookies might do the same.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: choo choo on Oct 10, 2012, 07:39 PM
this   is  a  observation  that  i  witnessed  year  after  year      i  have  noticed   that  in  the  fall  when  the  first  steelers  start  showing  up   that  i  see   lots  of  them  hanging  tight  to  shore ,  not  sure  why  but  just  something  i  have  noticed  later  on   they  are    out  aways  .....  any  one  ever  catch  a  steelie  on  a  dry  fly  in  the  east?
hey trap.. and fg...i have never caught an adult steelie on a dry, but i know afew guy's who have. Steel head definately love bugs / insects , and often are seen eating bugs on the surface out in the big lake along thermal breaks and scum/debris lines. The guys i know who havee caught them on top in the tribs were catching dropbacks, in late april, early may.
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: dmntd169 on Oct 11, 2012, 07:56 AM
cant say I've ever got any on dries but never fished them either. Have had them come up and swipe at strike indicators though
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Oct 11, 2012, 07:49 PM
i  caught   trout   on   mice   before !  

(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/2mkjhuoo.jpg)
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: Raquettedacker on Oct 12, 2012, 04:00 PM
i  caught   trout   on   mice   before !  

(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/2mkjhuoo.jpg)


      That looks like an OC Tuttle imitation to me.... ;D    Made in Old Forge years ago....   I have a small collection of them...
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: fishgalore on Oct 12, 2012, 07:21 PM
i  caught   trout   on   mice   before !  

(http://)(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/trapper2000/2mkjhuoo.jpg)

I'll be fishing for things that need about 100 mice to fill their belly tomorrow on the Big D. Hope we can get into the monster predator terminators. Can you say Bulldawgs and Bucktails?!!
Title: Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
Post by: trapper2000 on Oct 13, 2012, 07:29 AM

      That looks like an OC Tuttle imitation to me.... ;D    Made in Old Forge years ago....   I have a small collection of them...

nope  thats  a  trapper   deer  hair  mouse   and  if  ya   want  a  few   send  me  your  address    ;D