MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => New Hampshire => Topic started by: ericbres on May 11, 2017, 09:51 AM
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I'm trying to get set up for our first (spring) Winni derby ... and our first season giving laker/salmon trolling a try and have a couple questions.
(by the way, the book "Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit", written about fishing on Winni is a WEALTH of knowledge and a great read for any newbies like me - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0974817120/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
1. I'm getting conflicting recommendations regarding what line to spool on my downrigger rods. I read here many guys use heavier mono then a long flouro leader. But, I've also read (and been told by the guy who has been helping me physically set up the boat) that I can just spool up an entire reel of whatever flouro I intend on using (say, 6-8lb). Thoughts?
To be honest, with everything else I need to "learn" on the boat - I'd lean toward just spooling up the whole thing so tying those leaders is one less thing to worry about. But, I also want to do what's best.
2. For lures based on what I've read here - I've picked up some DB Smelt and Mooselook Wobblers. I've been told (again, by the guy helping me with the boat) to grab some Rapalas - but I'm not reading that advice anywhere else. Any input on what else I should throw in the tacklebox? I understand that colors/size/etc can vary and I should expect to change it up frequently - so I'm just trying to get a general idea of other things I should stock up with?
Thanks in advance.
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12 pound mono on the spool, swivel, then 6 feet of 6 pound seagar blue label flouro works for me. AJ's bait and tackle can better set you up with colors and i would buy some tandem and single hook streamers before stocking up on rapalas, i do use rapalas but on lakes further up like chesuncook in maine. i go with mono on the spool as it stretches better than flouro for shock absorbtion and because its cheaper, and spend the extra on the 6 foot tippet where the actions at
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I've paid for my registration but I will probably be fishing Champlain instead? My group always stayed at Ames Farm where two previous big prizes were caught right off the dock!
The Derby still means cold water with fish in the top 20 ft! If you will have a big crew think about a couple of lead core setups (one to three colors).
It means you have to cut up a full spool of lead core but it works?
We only used live shiners (goldens) but I do like the DB Smelt (Wonder bread for cloudy rainy days). AJ's replacement for the DB's look good too?
We have always spooled all Trilene mono with swivel 8 ft. back of shiner or lure. I guess a leader of expensive flurocarbon wouldn't be too bad?
Don't become preoccupied with changing spoon colors? As soon as you change to a new and exciting color a fish will hit the previous color on another rod!! Look for fish or bait and troll just above them??
Have fun! Winni salmon aren't monsters but they can often provide a 20 fish per boat day!
Oh! Make sure you have attractor spinners attached to you rigger balls and keep the bait or lure relatively close behind?
Dick
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12 pound mono on the spool, swivel, then 6 feet of 6 pound seagar blue label flouro works for me. AJ's bait and tackle can better set you up with colors and i would buy some tandem and single hook streamers before stocking up on rapalas, i do use rapalas but on lakes further up like chesuncook in maine. i go with mono on the spool as it stretches better than flouro for shock absorbtion and because its cheaper, and spend the extra on the 6 foot tippet where the actions at
X2
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Thanks for the input guys.
Dick, when you say attractor spinners ... I read in another thread about Dave Davis spinners and was going to order a few of those (brass/nickel) in the shorter size. Is this correct?
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Thanks for the input guys.
Dick, when you say attractor spinners ... I read in another thread about Dave Davis spinners and was going to order a few of those (brass/nickel) in the shorter size. Is this correct?
Dave Davie, brass/nickel in the 48 inch long size. They will bring salmon up from far below your rigger ball!
Dick
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Why not run 20 or 30 pound braid??then run a 6 or 8 pound leader ? Unless your running planner boards off these rods I would fill them with braid for down rigger and dipseys type divers..
now if running core off a planer to get it away from the boat use the braid as backing then run mono then lead core.. so you can clamp the planner boaRd on the mono.. so the board don't slip and slide down the line to the lead core might also want to get the book or the down loads from precision trolling on lead core trolling depths like aprox foot back for core colors used..
by the way if you can't afford a down rigger at first use dipseys divers there cheaper but truthfully the down rigger help find fish! Cause its more controlled depth then a dipseys diver.. why not just buy or make cow bells either vertical or horizontal they sell a few tools to make them at jannsnetcraft.Com like the net craft tac L tool.
Theirs so much out there just take it slow and enjoy your self it's fishing it don't have to be complicated..
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Why not run 20 or 30 pound braid??then run a 6 or 8 pound leader ? Unless your running planner boards off these rods I would fill them with braid for down rigger and dipseys type divers..
now if running core off a planer to get it away from the boat use the braid as backing then run mono then lead core.. so you can clamp the planner boaRd on the mono.. so the board don't slip and slide down the line to the lead core might also want to get the book or the down loads from precision trolling on lead core trolling depths like aprox foot back for core colors used..
by the way if you can't afford a down rigger at first use dipseys divers there cheaper but truthfully the down rigger help find fish! Cause its more controlled depth then a dipseys diver.. why not just buy or make cow bells either vertical or horizontal they sell a few tools to make them at jannsnetcraft.Com like the net craft tac L tool.
Theirs so much out there just take it slow and enjoy your self it's fishing it don't have to be complicated..
I agree with Boon.
Only thing to mention is to use braid, and not a super line.
The super lines have Teflon or something that makes them super slippery.
This creates problems with the line slipping thru the releases.
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Why not run 20 or 30 pound braid??then run a 6 or 8 pound leader ? Unless your running planner boards off these rods I would fill them with braid for down rigger and dipseys type divers..
now if running core off a planer to get it away from the boat use the braid as backing then run mono then lead core.. so you can clamp the planner boaRd on the mono.. so the board don't slip and slide down the line to the lead core might also want to get the book or the down loads from precision trolling on lead core trolling depths like aprox foot back for core colors used..
by the way if you can't afford a down rigger at first use dipseys divers there cheaper but truthfully the down rigger help find fish! Cause its more controlled depth then a dipseys diver.. why not just buy or make cow bells either vertical or horizontal they sell a few tools to make them at jannsnetcraft.Com like the net craft tac L tool.
Theirs so much out there just take it slow and enjoy your self it's fishing it don't have to be complicated..
For rigger rods I like to use braid for backing. Lasts way longer than mono.
I follow the braid with 150 or so feet of mono than spro swivel and a rods length of fluoro leader.
Boondox, curious where you get your flasher blade, blanks?
I've never seen them at Jann's or anywhere else.
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Try www.hagensfish.Com for flasher blades etc.. even spoon blanks etc are sold their if wondering or looking for some products look around I maybe thinking some thing different then you so let me know if iam thinking wrong flasher blades..
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Only thing to mention is to use braid, and not a super line.
The super lines have Teflon or something that makes them super slippery.
This creates problems with the line slipping thru the releases.
[/quote]
Or tearing up the release pads.
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Why not run 20 or 30 pound braid??then run a 6 or 8 pound leader ? Unless your running planner boards off these rods I would fill them with braid for down rigger and dipseys type divers..
now if running core off a planer to get it away from the boat use the braid as backing then run mono then lead core.. so you can clamp the planner boaRd on the mono.. so the board don't slip and slide down the line to the lead core might also want to get the book or the down loads from precision trolling on lead core trolling depths like aprox foot back for core colors used..
by the way if you can't afford a down rigger at first use dipseys divers there cheaper but truthfully the down rigger help find fish! Cause its more controlled depth then a dipseys diver.. why not just buy or make cow bells either vertical or horizontal they sell a few tools to make them at jannsnetcraft.Com like the net craft tac L tool.
Theirs so much out there just take it slow and enjoy your self it's fishing it don't have to be complicated..
Sounds good. I'm looking at braid now (and yes, easy to confuse it with superline which seems to be mixed in with my search). Didn't realize there was such a large amount available.
I've got 2 manual downriggers (loan from Father in Law), so I'll be in good shape there.
Thanks again.
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Try www.hagensfish.Com for flasher blades etc.. even spoon blanks etc are sold their if wondering or looking for some products look around I maybe thinking some thing different then you so let me know if iam thinking wrong flasher blades..
Thanks for this boondox. I have their catalog kicking around here.
The terminology does get a little mixed up on "blades".
I'm not looking for flashers or spoon blanks but vertical and horizontal "attractor" blades for a friend.
All that being said, they're pretty inexpensive on the web.
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??? ::) verical flashers are just a big headache? Assuming that anybody knows what VERTICAL flashers are?
Dick
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??? ::) verical flashers are just a big headache? Assuming that anybody knows what VERTICAL flashers are?
Dick
Dick, you really crack me up. :rotflol: :rotflol:
If you only had a clue. ;)
I fish with many, many guys that use verticals.
Most of us use them along with horizontals and have been doing so for many years.
They are not a headache in the least and they are very effective if you know how.
I understand that you don't know how to use them or at least effectively.
You really shouldn't make so many broad statements about stuff you know so little about. :(
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Braid
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Braid
Ya ... although I am learning that isn't so easy ;D
Soooo many different choices out there. with so many varying reviews.
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Wanted to take a minute and thank all the members who posted in this (and the other trolling/winni) threads giving me tips and advice for my first trip in the spring Winni derby.
Three of us on the boat (me, fiance and family friend) did pretty well all things considered (rookie to trolling). Friday we bagged a bunch of pretty fat small mouth, so we changed things up a bit and finally landed a couple small salmon.
Saturday was slow thanks to the wind - we ended up fishing in spots we didn't want to and it was slow. One laker and a small salmon for the day. But things really turned around Sunday as we started to figure out depths, ledges, speeds, colors, etc ...
I think overall for the day we pulled up 8 salmon and 1 laker.
Funny enough - the laker was while we were being checked (for the 2nd time over the weekend) by Fish and Game. So they hung around and watched. Which was funny because one of them kept cheering us on with "wow, that's a derby winner right there". Great guys.
Still some things to learn ... top of the list being "fighting and netting" big fish. We lost a couple of beauties this weekend thanks to, what I believe being, drag too tight and spooking them next to the boat with the net. But again, all things considered and being our first time out - I am thankful for all the advice I've found on here. I'll chalk it up to a success and a TON of fun.
Side note/question - anyone have any experience/facts regarding sitting on the gunwale while trolling? We had a marine patrol come up and give us a warning for sitting on the gunwale (all body parts IN the boat, but asses on the gunwale) while the boat was "moving". I spent some time in the Coast Guard (Newburyport among other places) and always understood it as "headway speed". Never bothering anyone unless, again, they were travelling faster than idle/no wake speeds - and/or - they had body parts hanging over the side.
BUT, maybe I have misunderstood the law?
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Side note/question - anyone have any experience/facts regarding sitting on the gunwale while trolling? We had a marine patrol come up and give us a warning for sitting on the gunwale (all body parts IN the boat, but asses on the gunwale) while the boat was "moving". I spent some time in the Coast Guard (Newburyport among other places) and always understood it as "headway speed". Never bothering anyone unless, again, they were travelling faster than idle/no wake speeds - and/or - they had body parts hanging over the side.
BUT, maybe I have misunderstood the law?
Here is the RSA you are looking for. Nothing to do with headway speeds or not, just can't do it while the boat is in gear period.:
Section 270-D:7
270-D:7 Riding on Gunwales, Bow and Transom. – No person shall operate a motorboat or ride as a passenger in a motorboat while sitting on either the starboard or port gunwales or the transom, and no person shall straddle the bow while the motorboat is in operation underway.
Source. 1990, 171:1, eff. June 26, 1990.
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does anyone ticket trolling while sitting on a gunwale, ive never seen that. i dont usually even have chairs set out on the boat unless theres a kid or someone elderly. my chair is usually hanging in a rod holder outside the boat just to get it out of the way. on a hot sunny windless day theres no one even at the wheel for the most part ;D
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For short money you can make your own dave davies, lureparts online, and buy some 30lb coated steel with crimps dicks sporting goods, I would recommend buying trolling rudders for them simply attach swivels to the rudders and you are all set and can swap them out. I have real good luck with various different blades. IN all its about 50 cents each blade, plus coated wire. Inline spinners in size 5 or 6 are the go too. Or even smaller willow, or teardrop blades. size 3 or 4 the same ones on mepps or smaller trout lures. For the cost of 4 dave davies you can make close to a dozen of them with very little investment in equipment. The plus side is that they are flexible and less drag than normal cowbell rigs.
I also make them with wire that is for inline spinners, NEVER BUY MEPS again, you can make all of that from various parts, the ticker on a meps is very similar to an earing backing, the body is sold online, beads are a dime a dozen, I recommend buying glass or real silver from a jewelry store like michaels. Same goes for making the dave davies. You can make Kennebunk spinners same pattern for about half or a third the cost. Once invested the most expensive parts are the body and the hooks. At discounts and clearance you can get trebles for really cheep.
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Still some things to learn ... top of the list being "fighting and netting" big fish. We lost a couple of beauties this weekend thanks to, what I believe being, drag too tight and spooking them next to the boat with the net.
I think your assumption is absolutely correct regarding too tight drags.
Most fish want to get away from restraint. When they see the boat and then the net it's natural for them to try to turn and run. The bigger the fish are the more apt they are to break your leader or weakest link in your set up. It could be a bad knot. The rule of thumb is to have your drag set at 25% of your weakest line strength. This should be your leader. So, if you have a 6# leader e.g., you should have no more than 1.5# drag.
With experience, you will get a feel for the correct amount of drag.
When big fish get towards the boat and/or net and turn, the proper drag will let them run. Eventually, they'll tire out and be able to be netted.
I like to have my net in the water when the fish get to it so they're not further spooked vs. poking it in their face at the last second.
I like to have my drags so loose (when the fish is near the boat) that I have to reel down with my rod to gain line.
Using the appropriate sized rod per the line set up and target species allows it to be an excellent shock absorb-er.
One does not need a broom stick sized rod on Winni.
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Seahunt quick question. We're did the 25% come from?? I have always used 20% off the reel measured with s spring scale.. the 20 % leves room for adjustment of the drag so I would set mine about 1.2 pounds.. I am not ridiculing you on this.. some of the ocean folks know more then others on why to do it then why not.. I do know the 20% is multiplied by friction of the guides as it goes out the tip and it the 1.2 becomes closer to 5 pounds etc etc.. as the line pass threw the guides.. I guess I just was curious why to use 25% over 20% if there is any rime or reasons to it?? Any how thanks for all info you can give..
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Seahunt quick question. We're did the 25% come from?? I have always used 20% off the reel measured with s spring scale.. the 20 % leves room for adjustment of the drag so I would set mine about 1.2 pounds.. I am not ridiculing you on this.. some of the ocean folks know more then others on why to do it then why not.. I do know the 20% is multiplied by friction of the guides as it goes out the tip and it the 1.2 becomes closer to 5 pounds etc etc.. as the line pass threw the guides.. I guess I just was curious why to use 25% over 20% if there is any rime or reasons to it?? Any how thanks for all info you can give..
I certainly didn't take your comment as ridicule, boondox. :)
25-30% is what I've read from many sources over the years.
I expect "where it came from" is based on success?
I've used the 25% ratio for stripers on the salt for years without break offs due to fish.
20% would certainly work. The difference between 1.2 and 1.5# of drag on 6# leader on Winni and our similar lakes here in NH is kinda splitting hairs as is figuring friction (resistance) for line guides etc..
I'm not saying they're not factors because of course they are.
I can assure you that I've brought many of "our" 4# and less salmon, bows and lakers etc. in on 20% of drag or less as I tend to feather the drag "up" when the fish get closer to the boat.
If you start out with a lot line out, as the reel fills up, often times the drag changes.
Lots and lots of factors. I was just trying to give the poster I quoted some basic info to start from.
I always wince a little when I read about all the "good" fish lost at the boat. ;)
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Thanks that figures on the 25 to 30 % and ya your right on the more line out the drag changes.. then you change and it gets closer to boat and break offs happen.. well its just good to know thanks for the info..
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How often do you change the line on trolling poles? I plan on changing the mono every year. What about the braid? I only fish once per week.
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How often do you change the line on trolling poles? I plan on changing the mono every year. What about the braid? I only fish once per week.
This is why I went to braid a few years back.
Sun and ozone doesn't degrade it like mono.
I am planning on 5 yrs with braid.
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Another question regarding the downriggers themselves ... one of the rigs we were given has frayed line, so I was going to replace it.
Any thoughts on braid vs steel? It's braid on there now, and it seems to work ok. My initial thought would be the steel line would be harder to replace, but - what do I know? ;D
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Thanks. I'm a newbe to trolling. I troll for browns and walleye in NE PA. I plan to use 70yd 30# braid backing and 70 yd 15# FC on top. I use planner boards. What do you think?
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Another question regarding the downriggers themselves ... one of the rigs we were given has frayed line, so I was going to replace it.
Any thoughts on braid vs steel? It's braid on there now, and it seems to work ok. My initial thought would be the steel line would be harder to replace, but - what do I know? ;D
I would definitely go steel over braid. Your frayed braid is the primary reason.
You shouldn't have any issues putting the steel on.
If you keep track of your depth finder, steel is a one and done.
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I would definitely go steel over braid. Your frayed braid is the primary reason.
You shouldn't have any issues putting the steel on.
If you keep track of your depth finder, steel is a one and done.
X2
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Thanks. I'm a newbe to trolling. I troll for browns and walleye in NE PA. I plan to use 70yd 30# braid backing and 70 yd 15# FC on top. I use planner boards. What do you think?
I just run 20# braid.
Then attach a 6-8' leader of 12-14# flouro.
I buy bulk spools of the 20# braid from Cabelas so it's cost effective.
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I would definitely go steel over braid. Your frayed braid is the primary reason.
You shouldn't have any issues putting the steel on.
If you keep track of your depth finder, steel is a one and done.
X3 steel is much better then braid for this application.. got to remember whin braid is tight it cuts easily so you got a 8 to 12 pound weight keeping it tight.. plus sharp edges on down rigger clips to stack the lure tends to cut the braid some times and a large piece of lead is hard to find in a pinch . I live in michigan were stacking lures is legal so if it's not leagl there don't do it!! Even can pinch it off in the pulleys of down riggers.. also once mono is really tangled in braid you can't tell the two apart.. so if you let slack in line some time you cut rigger cable trying to untangle cause it's white and boats white etc.. bad back ground when this all happens..
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Thanks for the input guys ... just ordered a spool of steel to get it taken care of.
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I would definitely go steel over braid. Your frayed braid is the primary reason.
You shouldn't have any issues putting the steel on.
If you keep track of your depth finder, steel is a one and done.
Have to agree with Coffin Dodger on this one?
Dick
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I've been getting a lot of line twist when trolling using a christmas tree for trout. I don't recall if I used a snap swivel in front of the rudder on the tree. I use a snap-on wt. to get the rig down. How often do you think I should re-spool?
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Try trolling rudders and use better ball bearing swivels after the rudder, before the junk you're trolling.