MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => Maine => Topic started by: Stickbait on Apr 07, 2018, 06:46 AM
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My question is, will a fly rod of higher quality cast further than one of lesser quality?
I have a cheap sci. Angler rod,5/6 wt.9’, paired with matching weight,weight forward line, and can only seem to cast out to 25’or so.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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Short answer is no. Casting takes a lot of practice, and harder to do correctly if you don’t have someone to coach you. Most fish are caught within 30ft anyway (at least in rivers and streams). I’m on my third year with a fly rod, and I can barely cast out more than the weighted half of my line (I have a line with two colors to show weighted half vs running line) It took me almost a full season and a broken rod before I started to get the feel of what a proper cast feels like with. Then learning that casting weighted flies and nymph rigs have a different technique too.
Here’s a post about the “value” of expensive rods
https://www.maineflyfish.com/forums/index.php?/topic/30840-why-do-i-need-a-high-end-rod/
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Just like any sport, its the ability and a lot of practice. You can practice at home, you don't have to be on water.
Lee Wulff could cast 40 feet without any rod. The rod and the line should match.
I could never see an awful lot of benefit of a fly rod over a spinning rod in this state. More status.
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Just like any sport, its the ability and a lot of practice. You can practice at home, you don't have to be on water.
Lee Wulff could cast 40 feet without any rod. The rod and the line should match.
I could never see an awful lot of benefit of a fly rod over a spinning rod in this state. More status.
Casting without a rod?!
The “benefits” don’t really show unless your trout fishing and there’s a hatch going on. When that happens, I could hardly ever get a bite when throwing lures or worms. Other than that, fish just feel like they fight harder with longer rods. I personally don’t get the snobbery, I still go out with gear and bait depending on my mood. I enjoy casting a fly rod, and going a step beyond that, it feels even more satisfying if you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself.
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Agree with seamonkey. I also tend to think it is a function of rod action and line rather than the cost of equipment. Inexpensive rods are pretty good now a days
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Yes, but it largely depends on your skill as a caster.
the biggest advantage of a $500+ rod I imagine is you'll probably put less physical work in (false casting, hauling, shooting line) to get the same distance that's about it.
I've never used a fly rod over $100 and I've caught lot's of nice fish... jus' sayin'... ;D
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To your question, if you are an expert caster you would see minimal gains by buying a very exspensive rod ( $500-$800) and matching line. To me your present setup (rod and line weight) are what it is suppose to be. This setup should be capable of casting 60-80 ft in the hands of a very good caster.
I would go to youtube and look up Kelly Gallup Flyfishing Videos, I am confident that he can help explain some of the questions you have about flyfishing.
Hope this helps.
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x2 on using YouTube as a resource, I would've been lost without it learning to fly cast as well as other advanced techniques (hauling, shooting, mending, roll casting, etc).
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Ever think after you watch those you tube videos.. to video record or video tape your casting a few seconds and post it up here to ask what your doing wrong?? Most of the time it's not feeling the rod load on the back cast or knowing were the starts and stops are.. acceleration into that stop..
just let out about 10 to 15 or more feet and and false cast forward and back wards a few times.. as you go forward accelerate in to the forward stop point!! the rod should not dip below two o-clock in front of you.. if 12 o clock is sttight above you and no more then 11 o clock behind you.. do not brake wrist unless you landing line and laying it on the water.. that is the only time you lower the rod tip and let line settle on water.. how I learned to cast is you got to practice this till you feel the rod load...
if the rod is to stiff like the 500 extra fast action broom sticks they sell you won't feel it load and makes it harder to learn your timing of when to do the forward cast
.. you do this as soon as line tugs back a bit you do the forward cast.. that tug is what is know as loading when the rod loads you will feel a tug or jump or bump on the back ward pause .. that when you accelerate forward in to the stop.. always I try this and when ready and you know your ready ..
Next try the single haul when you start to feel it load.. how single haul is done you let our line like before.. do the fore and back cast but have extra line trapped under a index finger as you accelerate in to the stop in front of you.. like before you let go of the index finger and shoot line this takes timeING , patience, and practice to do..
after this is the double haul you tug after yhe load on the fore and back cast.. after you feel the rod load and usally shoot line of forward cast.. it takes time to learn but is reAL fun and easy.. once you get on that bike you will never forget it..
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Another thing that really helps is to make sure your rod guides and line are clean. Abrasions and dirt generate a lot of drag and takes the energy from your casts.
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If you can lay out a nice cast 25 feet with a soft landing for the fly, you'll be all set. Very few circumstances where you'll need more length than that. A "frozen rope" at 15 feet is better than a flail and splashy landing at 40 feet. Fishing pocket water is a lot like a thief working a crowd. Get close (often within a couple rod lengths), be stealthy, and you'll pick the pockets.
An expensive rod may be an easier casting rod, but that is rarely the deciding factor for a successful fishing day. I have noticed that less expensive rods load up and cast better when I set them up with a line that is one weight heavier that the one recommended. I wasn't thrilled with how my 3-weight rod was laying out casts. "Overweighting" and going up to a 4-weight line was real helpful.
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Everything Jim said 8) also not all flylines are created equal . Wf shooting taper double taper ect all cast different . Brand specific also .... Stay away from Wally world line
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The best advice I was given was to tape my casting so I could see what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong.
I had a friend tape me and I could see my rod tips and watch my loops. Than I could adjust as I saw what I was doing not what I thought I was doing.
Good luck and enjoy!! Ita so much fun once you've nailed it!!
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It's all in the wrist 8)
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I once saw Lefty Kreh ( RIP & tight lines) cast 90* around a pole. I asked him what did you just do? He just looked at me and smiled.
Honesty I prefer casting my TFO 8wt rod than my 9wt Sage RPLXi "rocket launcher" that was more than double the money. Same distance. My favorite was my old retired Fenwick glass rod. It sits on a shelf because I don't ever want to break it. It was a gift from Dad, too many memories.
My St. Croix 4 wt is a dream to trout fish with. And it was about $100.
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Yes, but it largely depends on your skill as a caster.
the biggest advantage of a $500+ rod I imagine is you'll probably put less physical work in (false casting, hauling, shooting line) to get the same distance that's about it.
I've never used a fly rod over $100 and I've caught lot's of nice fish... jus' sayin'... ;D
I know,I've seen your posts!
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Thanks for all the great feedback. I'll definitely check out you tube,and practice, practice, practice!!
A video of me casting is also a great idea.
Thanks again for all the help!
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Also, if you haven’t already, check out https://www.maineflyfish.com/forums/index.php
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Find yourself a fly casting instructor and hire them for an hour of cast instruction and do it before you develop bad habits (like using your wrist). After the lesson, you then practice, practice, practice... With most rods, I can cast the most of a full fly line, but that is because I got good instruction and then (like with a bow) I would cast (often over grass) every day for at least few minutes. Most all of the tips given here have been great, but nothing can replace an hour of time with a good instructor, it does not matter how good a caster someone is, it does not mean they can teach you how to cast... Most of the time it is not all that expensive, I have been doing it for decades and I still only charge $35 for an hour, I am sure you can find someone in your area that is good and reasonable... Money and time well spent!
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You could hire a Registered Maine Guide (f'rinstance like me) to help you, but I honestly don't think it is all that worth it as a beginner and you won't find very many guides (f'rinstance like me) who would tell you this because they want your dough. They charge you and get you going but you can do that on your own. The help you get from a guide or a casting instructor pays off after you have played around with it a bit and you have a feel for it, then you can get a coach to help you to "fine tune your casting" and get it together, like a Golf Pro. You will waste your money hiring one as a rank beginner, but you can get way better afterwords. I usually charge more than you will want to pay me, but you will get a shore lunch, most likely you'll catch some fish, and you'll get my awesome story telling, but for you... I'll give you some free advice...Upline your fly line...if your rod is 5 weight? put a six or a 7 weight line on it...if it is a 6 weight, put a 7 or 8 weight line on it...play with it....then maybe you'll decide to move back down in line weight...many new rods are wicked fast and a slower rod is generally easier to learn on, you can slow down a fast rod by uplining it...voila...in fact this what most guides or casting instructors will charge you $350 bucks to find out...Also, you don't have to spend a lot of money for fly lines...go to Cabelas Bargain Bin or Sierra Trading Post and buy the cheapest fly lines you can find....
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Umm correct casting involves the wrist .... Been fly-fishing for 30 + years and own around a dozen flyrods between $20 and $500 All require correct casting technique ...
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Umm correct casting involves the wrist .... Been fly-fishing for 30 + years and own around a dozen flyrods between $20 and $500 All require correct casting technique ...
Ive always been told, that until you can form proper tight loops, you should not use any wrist. They make wrist braces to lock the wrist for beginners learning to make the straight back and forward casts, as using the wrist Improperly can cause loops to open, or cause the rod to load/unload at the wrong time. Then when your getting better at casting, you use the wrist to get more distance. Then after getting the hang of pushing with the wrist at the right time, adding in the timeing for a haul is just the next step.
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And from personal experience beware of the wind blowing across your casting shoulder. Unless you want to pull a fly out of the back of your hat or worse. Don't ask.
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And from personal experience beware of the wind blowing across your casting shoulder. Unless you want to pull a fly out of the back of your hat or worse. Don't ask.
Lol,funny you mention that. When I first started learning,I got a fly stuck in my earlobe. My wife saw it and said,nice earring!
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Lol,funny you mention that. When I first started learning,I got a fly stuck in my earlobe. My wife saw it and said,nice earring!
Luckily I haven’t had anything like that happen yet, but I have knocked myself good in the back of the head with a bead head streamer a couple times. I’m just glad I de-barb all my hooks. Oh, on that note, when throwing heavy flies or rigs, that’s when you actually want to open up the loop to the side a bit on the back cast, so the end of the line doesn’t crash and tangle with the rest as it straighten out behind you.
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I've read somewhere that a better rod will just help you throw mistakes farther. It really is much more about casting form than it is about the rod. As Jim said, accuracy at 25 feet is far more important than throwing a 40ft mess. Practice Practice Practice, and watch all the casting instruction videos you can find...there is no correct way other than the one that you are comfortable with.
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you will learn quicker with a heavier line/rod setup, say an 8 or 9 wt to practice with. you get a better understanding on the rod loading on the back cast etc. you will catch more trout fishing 15 feet away with nymphs though ;D i found i needed to continually practice on the lawn, you get distracted on a pond with fish around you
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My question is, will a fly rod of higher quality cast further than one of lesser quality?
I have a cheap sci. Angler rod,5/6 wt.9’, paired with matching weight,weight forward line, and can only seem to cast out to 25’or so.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
i should add to what i posted. if you are just getting 25 feet its probably your mechanics, you are forcing a 25 foot cast, your rodtip is too high on the back cast and your release is too low going forward, it forces the line to cast down. you can push the rod harder, load the rod harder, if you dont change the mechanics, no matter how hard you whip the rod, you are going to get 25 feet. if you want to cast further, the rod needs to stop lower behind you and full stop higher in front of you, an upward angle. i tend to cast sidearm when going for distance and can see the cast angle better. lefty krey has a 4 principles system, google it, some stupid simple stuff helps alot.
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Fishless, funny that you mentioned the four principals, I just watched his demonstration on YouTube last night before bed. The channel Hooked Up has a great series of videos with Lefty Kreh (RIP :()
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Fishless, funny that you mentioned the four principals, I just watched his demonstration on YouTube last night before bed. The channel Hooked Up has a great series of videos with Lefty Kreh (RIP :()
i can picture lefty yelling at me at a sportsmans show right now ;D always tried to get on stage with him for a quick lesson. look for the work he did with ed jaworowski, ed was the better caster and instructor, i did a 16 hour class with ed for distance, at the end of two days most of the class was getting well over 20 feet of backing into the cast and using the hundred foot plus steelhead lines to boot. he was very specific about learning with an 8 or 9 weight rod if you want to work on distance
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I'm not sure where your located but id be more than willing to give you a hand . I live real close to the st George river and could meet up sometime . pm me if interested ...
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I quick way to add a little more distance is to stretch your line and clean it regularly. I took a lesson at bean once and the first thing the instructor showed us was how he stretches his line and then wipes it down. It helps it lay out flat and gets you a little more distance.
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I quick way to add a little more distance is to stretch your line and clean it regularly. I took a lesson at bean once and the first thing the instructor showed us was how he stretches his line and then wipes it down. It helps it lay out flat and gets you a little more distance.
if you fish the salt, armourall and a stretch first thing works well, soak the line a few minutes in cold water at night and repeat with the armour just before the next days fishing.
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A great way to add distance and ease aggravation is to use a stripping basket... I started using them in the salt and now use it when freshwater fly fishing. Take a bit to get used to using, but once you do, you can't help but have a little laugh at anyone that does not use one...
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Just my .02. Take it or leave it from someone that sold a good amount of fly lines working in a fly shop.
If you want to clean your lines, use soap and water or a proper fly line dressing. It’s not much more than armor all. Guys use Armor All and Rain X, but it’s a short term solution and ultimately hurts the line.
“For years people said that ArmorAll could be used to clean and condition fly lines. What we know now is that they actually reduce the effective lifespan of the line. This is due to the chemicals in ArmorAll reacting with the plasticizers in our coating and actually drying it out. This can lead to premature cracking and line failure. ~”
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If you want to clean your lines, use soap and water or a proper fly line dressing. It’s not much more than armor all. Guys use Armor All and Rain X, but it’s a short term solution and ultimately hurts the line.
Absolutely!....mild soap and water and a good rinse is all you need to do.
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Awsome question Stickbait, ;D i have often wondered the same thing, I got alot out of the responses. Cool site.
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Yes wash with soap and water and dry .. then treat with muclin silicone fly line dressing the silicone dressing helps float higher when using floating lines now intermediate and sinking just wash and dry ..