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MFF US Northeast => New Hampshire => Topic started by: bassin212 on Apr 13, 2018, 11:41 AM

Title: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: bassin212 on Apr 13, 2018, 11:41 AM
Just curious to what people think is better/is it worth having both? I have 2 downriggers that I was originally using with 8 foot downrigger rods and line counter reels. From some advice on here, I have been told to use those rods and line counter reels for Lead Core set ups. And then to purchase some bigger ugly sticks for my down rigger rods. I'm not sure I want to spend the extra money on two more set ups. Any idea's on a cheaper set up for downrigger rods, or should I just keep the set up I have?
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: zwiggles on Apr 13, 2018, 12:16 PM
Both have their place in the boat. We always only fished DR’s when I was younger. Started pulling lead a few years ago. Now I always have both set ups out 99% of the time. I wouldn’t be happy if I forgot my lead set ups at home, and only had rigger rods.

Some days they’re only going to hit lead, and other days only riggers, most the time we get them off both.

For cheap rod and reel set ups I don’t think you can beat the price on the star fire rods, or the okuma depthmaster reels.

I run fly poles with up to six colors of lead (ll bean trolling specials, or ugly stick fly rods). For my standard rods I like to have ten colors of lead. You will need the bigger reels to fit 10 colors of lead.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: bassin212 on Apr 13, 2018, 12:23 PM
do you think it's important to have line counters on down riggers as well?
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Mac Attack on Apr 13, 2018, 12:39 PM
do you think it's important to have line counters on down riggers as well?


Depends on how accurate you want to be with setback from the ball.
Also, repeatability.

But my answer is no.
I fished riggers for 20+ yrs successfully without line counter reels.
Do I use line counters now - yup!
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Seahunt on Apr 13, 2018, 01:00 PM

Depends on how accurate you want to be with setback from the ball.
Also, repeatability.

But my answer is no.
I fished riggers for 20+ yrs successfully without line counter reels.
Do I use line counters now - yup!
Never had rigger rods without line counters, but Mac's absolutely right!
You should definitely have riggers and lead core if it's financially feasible!
FWIW, your rigger rods should be LIGHTER than your lead core rods.
They're using mono or braid. The biggest benefits of riggers is depth and you're bringing in the fish on light line! Much more satisfaction from fighting/playing a fish on mono vs heavy lead!
 
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: reelrusty on Apr 13, 2018, 01:21 PM
 ??? What is your target? I love my Bass Pro Micro Lite Float N Fly eight and nine footers (both ultra light) for Kokanee on the downrigger if not using a large dodger/flasher. Great preload and super fun. Easy on soft mouthed kamikaze Kokanee! For large Lake Trout however, a stouter downrigger rod with a soft tip for a better preload is what I prefer. Leadcore on a downrigger rod is ok if just going two or three colors out with a light spoon but I find the soft tip unsatisfactory for heavier/deeper presentations Try 'em all and sort out your favorites. That's what it's all about! Have a great season and take a kid fishin :laugh:!
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: TheCrittaC on Apr 13, 2018, 01:27 PM
On my father's boat, we usually fish 2 lead core lines and one downrigger. Both usually produce about the same, but depending on how far back you are, you might have to reel in less line if you're 40 feet down with a downrigger than out 8 colors' worth of lead core.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: bassin212 on Apr 13, 2018, 01:44 PM
so i would be using the trolling gear for salmon and trout. mostly around the lakes region but maybe a couple trips to Vermont and Maine depending on how good i get at it this year. I guess what I should be asking is, if I already have 2 Okuma Classic Trolling rods (for my downriggers) with line counters on them. When on the downrigger they are rigged with braid to fleuro leader.

Are these type rods to use as lead core set ups as well? I've heard you want that length so get the lines away from the boat. I'd like to stay away from fly rods if possible. Not sure if that makes sense?
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Seahunt on Apr 13, 2018, 02:46 PM
There are many kinds, weights and lengths of Okuma trolling rods.
If you happen to have these Okuma Classic Pro GLT Trolling Rod, they're designed for great lakes use. Apt to be too heavy for Winni rigger rods (1-4# fish).
You can use the same rods on Winni, in ME and on Champ. If targeting lakers on Champ, you'd probably want a rod with a little more backbone for steerage.

Basically for riggers around here, you want 4,6 to 10,12# line weight with good flex to load your rods in the riggers. Lengths vary on what individuals like best. A rule of thumb is the smaller the boat, the shorter the rod. If I was you, I'd be looking at between 7'-6" and 8'-6". 
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Jethro on Apr 13, 2018, 02:48 PM
Sometimes it seems leadcore just outperforms the riggers, even when fished at similar depths. Better action maybe? But since having downriggers for a few years I will likely never fish leadcore more than 3 colors. Any more than 3 colors and it takes all the fun and fight out of a fish unless it's huge. Plus once you get proficient with the riggers and releases you can change your presentation quicker and easier. Leadcore can take 2 or 3 minutes to get back down to the target zone and becasue of that I tend to be lazier with my lures when I should be changing colors or something.

As far as line counters, I see no need with leadcore as long as you know your colors. On the downrigger rods I really like linecounters because obviously there's no colors.

For leadcore I use 8-3" Ugly Stick Bigwater rods.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: brownbagger247 on Apr 13, 2018, 02:50 PM
do you think it's important to have line counters on down riggers as well?

My downriggers have a line counter on them but no need for it if you have a fish finder your ball should show up on it. My line counter and ball on the finder read the same

I have down riggers and lead core but prefer just lead mainly however fighting a fish on regular line without the weight of the lead is a lot more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: boondox on Apr 13, 2018, 03:14 PM
Each have there place nice thing about lead core is the planer board you can get it far far far away from the boat.. when fish are nervous or spook really easily it's nice.. or if in the spring you need to fish away from the boat and fish are in the upper part of the water colum..  we use 2 -3 -5-7 -10 colors of lead core..  depending on when and ware after that they go so deep that we go to 300 to 400 to  500 and 600 foot of copper wire.. but thats lake michigan can't speak for other lakes in maine, pansilvaina ,new York etc.. they maybe shallower or deeper ?? then what I have fished .. and copper may not be needed?  But once we go past 600 foot of copper were catching them on the dipseys 150 to 175 feet back on largest one with ring while running braid or wire on the rods.. also start getting them  on the riggers again..  cause there deeper and further away from the boat.. that's more in end of summer beginning of fall before the lakes flip.. and the warm and cold change positions in the lake..
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: bassin212 on Apr 13, 2018, 04:10 PM
so the 2 "downrigger" rods I have are 8'6" rated for 10-20lb line both with line counters on them. I also have a 6'6" medium heavy ugly stick with a bait runner reel on it.

given the options, how would you set up each rod and reel and what would you use them for? Could I make do with the Ugly Stick and just buy one more set up? What would you recommend for a 4th set up?
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: zwiggles on Apr 13, 2018, 05:57 PM
so the 2 "downrigger" rods I have are 8'6" rated for 10-20lb line both with line counters on them. I also have a 6'6" medium heavy ugly stick with a bait runner reel on it.

given the options, how would you set up each rod and reel and what would you use them for? Could I make do with the Ugly Stick and just buy one more set up? What would you recommend for a 4th set up?

I am not very familiar with baitrunner reels, but I have 7’ medium action ugly stick with a spinning reel which is my “back up” downrigger rod. We have never had an issue with it, and it was used a lot when I was younger for trolling. I’d say go with it, and if you find you hate it, then replace it.

I know some people do not like the eagle claw starfire rods, but you should be able to find a 7’6” medium light starfire rod for $30. Pair that with a small okuma Magda pro depthmaster reel for another $40 and you should be good to go. That’s the set up we have used on winni on our downriggers for the past few years.

 As much as I have wanted to “upgrade” those combos to some nicer, or at least more expensive, I have not been able to justify the $200-$300 because these have worked great for us.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: boondox on Apr 13, 2018, 06:00 PM
How big are the line counter reels ?? Cause they got to be big to fit core or copper..

what I would do is leave them ware they are and if i had the cash to buy new gear i would see if you can find a penn Difiance 30 size..  for running lead core it a little less pricey version of the penn warfare..   I think warfare cost 100.00 were the difience cost 69.99 retail..  only differences are a bearing or two  and maybe retrived ratios..  a buddy of mine has 3 of them for fishing off the wall up here in michigan.. very solidly built reel..  very comparable to my warfare 30 reels I got 3 of.. I wish I would have bought the difiance cause of the cheaper price tag..  not sure if you can get a line counter version of it or not but it's a darn good reel for the price.. for sure don't go with the penn genaral purpose reels.. cause the  reel foot is made of brass and screws strip out very easy... now the usa made version the reel foot was stainless steel.. etc etc.. you own the general pourpose China  reel long enough it will fall apart on you.. that is why the local shops don't carry them any more up here.. any how get a set of lead core rods later on with reels if needed..   my question is what type of fishing do you enjoy most walleye or steel salmon?? If walleye then you should have them already  but dont need them .. now steel /salmon they are more skittish and tend to move away from a boat mainly why people like lead core cause the planer gets it away from the  boat..new equipment can be a game changer for one or two fish a year to 100's a year.. don't let tourneyment fisher men tell you you need  stuff when they got a 30 foot boat and yours is 14 foot there are big difference between the two and what is  nesseary and not.. cause it's two different people and two different reasons to own gear.. but owning gear changes ability to catch fish  it's like a fish finder versus no fishfinder.. "the great ice fishing debate". 


 they dont call a boat bust out another thousand for nothing. For one you can do it so easily.. the other   You know your spending limits and ability.  If your questioning that much there's a reason if it's a great enough reason then don't do it.. don't put your self debt just cause we say you need it.. it is something to consider later on..
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Rainbow1 on Apr 14, 2018, 03:26 AM
I like using both at the same time when fishing multiple lines.  It helps keep the lines spread out and prevent tangling.  2 leads out the sides at 2-3 colors and 2 riggers off the back at about 40' when the thermocline sets up.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: MikeF-NH on Apr 15, 2018, 07:04 AM
Right on RB1. Try to put larger number of colors on the inside when running 2+ leadcore on one side and run DRs deeper than both to prevent tangles. That said...this all works perfect for bows and salmon that come to the surface when hooked. A big ol' laker bulldogs deep and likes to cross all those lines and make a perfect mess...oh yeah..been there-done that.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 16, 2018, 08:58 AM
Sometimes both at the same time.  Works well for kings.  2-3 colors behind the ball with a spoon.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: bassin212 on Apr 16, 2018, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the input everyone, lots of good info.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: Jethro on Apr 19, 2018, 07:27 AM
Sometimes both at the same time.  Works well for kings.  2-3 colors behind the ball with a spoon.

No kidding, I have never tried this.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 20, 2018, 03:09 PM
No kidding, I have never tried this.

My first king ever was taken this way and I barely knew what I was doing.  They call it a secret weapon rod setup or SWR.  My best king was 24lbs and was also caught on the same rig.   Will be putting it to use in May.  I'm sure it would work for other species.
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: MikeF-NH on Apr 21, 2018, 06:48 AM
its a nice way to target lakers on bottom where you can use your riggers to get you down most of the way  but use the leadcore to get right on bottom without risking your downrigger terminal gear. If I lose a lure and some leader material...its a few bucks. Downrigger weight, terminators, vertical attractor, release...those all add up to more than $100. You  can see the financial reasons to do this setup....
Title: Re: Down riggers vs Lead Core
Post by: boondox on Apr 21, 2018, 11:37 AM
If thinking lead core what about snap weights??  like in making your own?? And just fill the rod full of mono them use it for riggers and planner boards ?? As needed for which ever you need at that moment.. snap weights can get the body baits to dive deeper same as lead core and should be able to be used on a planer board?? Some even use snap weights for getting lead core even deeper??  Don't know if you got the book precision trolling from fishing 411 ?? Or the down loads or stickers etc app etc??  I would save money buy some thing like inline eights or rubbers core weights or similar and just place on line and pull behind a planner boaRd ?? Then when you need the riggers you just throw them on it?? Inline weights go in excess of 1 pound and can be daisy chained together it's best to read the fishing 411 app ,book ,etc.. first  before deciding you know your fishing better then me??  If your running diwn riggers in summer or fall when fish are deep that's one thing and snap weights in 10 to 15 fow when fish are up high in spring.. you can even get them away from boat with a planner boaRd.. so my suggestion is why not add dipseys and keep it same as you got now just switch up techniques?? With the other rods cause you could run dipseys with the down riggers if you good at it.. I am not saying drop more in to dipsey rods this minute but just consider doing so later on like a braided line dipsey rod?? Not sure how big your boat is and how many rods per angler your allowed?? We run meat rig and hochies and fly combos for kings on dipsey rods.. any how read the 411 info first..  cause you maybe fishing lead core when you shold fish copper line...   copper dives deeper then lead core..  or even useing lead core when all you need is snap weights.. or dive bombs or dipseys etc... always good to know what your boat is capleable of also pay attenion yo reports of ware fish are locating like 30 down kn 150 fow etc .. and figure how to get it to them according to 411 info..