MyFishFinder Forum
MyFishFinder By Species => Muskellunge => Topic started by: SPINNERBITE on Sep 09, 2007, 07:48 AM
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Need help w/ Norlunge. Are they characteristicly more like northerns or muskies?
Baits: Should I be using bass to northern size baits or muskie size baits.
What would be some good baits to have on hand, to start
Time: Best time or times of the year to target them.
Location: I fish mainly rivers w/tigers in them.Main depth 12 ft. with deeper holes up to 20-30ft.
Do they inhabit the same areas as pike, or do I have to fish for them differently?
ANY HELP, would be greatly appreciated.
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C'mon, Nobody's got Nuthin ?
I not asking to be taken to your spots or nothing, just ,how about
sharing some information.
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They tend to follow the muskie life! They (in Pennsylvania ) are suppose to be sterile but they will make the same spawning run as the Muskie between March and May. They are found in the same area's of our lakes and not so much the cold water that N.pike like. I say go with Muskie as a guide line in the impoundments but as for rivers ? I don't know because N.Pike are more likely to be forced living in Muskie conditions.
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They tend to follow the muskie life! They (in Pennsylvania ) are suppose to be sterile but they will make the same spawning run as the Muskie between March and May. They are found in the same area's of our lakes and not so much the cold water that N.pike like. I say go with Muskie as a guide line in the impoundments but as for rivers ? I don't know because N.Pike are more likely to be forced living in Muskie conditions.
This is what I found out so far, and its not much. I have personally caught (my only one) at the end of May, have
had them show themselves during the heat of the summer,follows but no hits.Its awsome when they charge the boat.
Alot of guys that actually admitted catching them where on live bait under floats during the summer months, and
one guy admits he likes to troll for them deep diving thundersticks.
Nobody has responded that really has put time into fishing for them.
Its your typical river system with all the components that make up one.
I'm typically fishing for bass and northerns, I follow their seasonal movements from March till Dec.
so I'm fishing shallow to deep, drop off edges everything.
So I'm very well adapted to fishing for northerns, I can follow and find them throughout the year.
The fact that I'm not connecting with tigers is what leads me to believe that Tigers dont behave
pike or act like them. I believe I should be concentrating on them elsewhwere or differentely.
And then there is lure selection, they will FOLLOW spinnerbaits and Bass size cranks.
Should I be looking into small sized muskie , large size pike lures or should I go with the big
ones that they target SKIES with.
I bought a variety of in-line bucktails and used them throughout the fall, no Tigers but bass.
I need HELP! Trying to come up with aplan here.
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I have done well on Tiger Muskies in Spring & Autum when the water Temps cool down under that 65 degree mark (Much Like Northerns) But have also noticed that Tigers love Huge live minnows. While Pike fishing I sometimes would get carried away with the size of the minnows like using 14" Suckers; & would end up catching Tigers (Much Like Muskies). I've had some real good late August Early Sept days casting Bucktails along Deeper Weed edges. All that said; it seems that some one always nails a big one outta stocked lakes in the middle of summer with a spinnerbait, or other bass lure. I feel for yah; it really is hard finding info specific to Norlunge!! It's not like there is a In Fisherman book for the Hybrid!!
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I have done well on Tiger Muskies in Spring & Autum when the water Temps cool down under that 65 degree mark (Much Like Northerns) But have also noticed that Tigers love Huge live minnows. While Pike fishing I sometimes would get carried away with the size of the minnows like using 14" Suckers; & would end up catching Tigers (Much Like Muskies). I've had some real good late August Early Sept days casting Bucktails along Deeper Weed edges. All that said; it seems that some one always nails a big one outta stocked lakes in the middle of summer with a spinnerbait, or other bass lure. I feel for yah; it really is hard finding info specific to Norlunge!! There in No In Fisherman book for the Hybrid!!
Soooooo......what'ya think just keep pluggin along.......other than the (big minnow) theory....what the heck.
You mentioned having some luck with Bucktails.....do you have a preference...as in color.....size?
Would you rather throw musky baits (large).......or would you downsize large pike baits (or big bass baits)?
Are you burnnin the bucktail along and over the tops of weeds?
I feel pretty confident I'm fishin the right areas....cant make it happen......I need ideas on lure selection....maybe
that'll be the second part of the puzzle.
I've got nuthin against bait fishin.....done it ,still do it........just dont want do it....the chase...preperation...and trying
to figure out how to catch these things on lures is what I want to do.
I bought a half a dozen Blue Fox #5 Super Vibrax and a couple Mepps #5 Bucktails got all different colors cause
dont know what they'll hit.
I am glad though...that someone finally....put their 2 cents in .......THANX....I appreciate it.
Hopefully we'll keep talkin :)
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Probably the best bet in lure selection would be to try and judge fish aggressiveness and go from there... Bucktail fished fast if Fish seem aggressive, Mid speed lures like spoons for semi agressive / neutral fish & vertical presentations for Neutral / negative fish. The Big live bait / tiger muskie correlation is no theory for me; it happened too many times to be anything but a preferance, at the very least in the body of water I was catching them in.
If I was very serious about getting into Tigers I'd ask around, research & read to find lakes with very healthy populations of em' & pick them apart.
Size of Lure is often best determined by fish mood often related to Water Temp & Air Pressure. There isn't gonna be one magic lure that works on any given day; there is too many variables; like with any fish...
Bet if someone was to do a lot of research on Norlunge then Publish a book they could make some money off it.
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Tiger mukies act just like a muckie and frequent the same waters. They also eat northerns. They follow all the same patterns as muskies. They are the Sharks of fresh water just like the musky. Adapt musky fishing techniques and you'll catch tigers. And don't forget the musky is the fish of a thousand casts.
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If I was very serious about getting into Tigers I'd ask around, research & read to find lakes with very healthy populations of em' & pick them apart.
Size of Lure is often best determined by fish mood often related to Water Temp & Air Pressure. There isn't gonna be one magic lure that works on any given day; there is too many variables; like with any fish...
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Reaserch.... I have... I have two lakes and a river system at my disposal....I would say the population is not great....but good.
Askin around FORGET it.......since I started askin questions on this site and a couple others........to date I've probably have
had a half a dozen replys........in the course of almost a year.Like you said its hard to find any material on them.......I dont have
(muskies) here I got PIKE and NORLUNGE......so my mindset isnt musky......I dont understand musky.......I havent pursued musky
I dont own anything musky......BUT I KNOW PIKE
All this time fishing for pike I've caught one Tiger........leading me to believe the dont inhabit the same areas as pike....and
or arent enticed by my pike offerings
I use stickbaits....spinnerbaits...and crankbaits......shallow to deep.......I have had follows from spinnerbaits thats it.
So so far I know they are attracted to flash......I've located these fish in the river in the deepest holes of the river or near...
during Spring thru mid Summer.....the closer it gets to Summer the more boat traffic......less prime time to fish.
So (help out here "mud n fun")......should I start researching and brushing up on musky tactics.....is this what everybody thinks
(change of mindset)?
Also I realize that the MAGIC lure may not exist.....but I'm still going to ask Santa for one this year ;D
As I mentioned previously in my post.......I've purchased some bucktails #5's there not huge....but bigger than I have
been throwing......got a 7'-6" flipping stick .......a good quality reel w/ braid and I'm going to beat the water to a froth
this year and see what happens.
Any insight to help me along would truly be appreciated.......ANYTHING
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Tiger mukies act just like a muckie and frequent the same waters. They also eat northerns. They follow all the same patterns as muskies. They are the Sharks of fresh water just like the musky. Adapt musky fishing techniques and you'll catch tigers. And don't forget the musky is the fish of a thousand casts.
Help me with a selection of lures to choose from.......for Spring into Summer....these fish are attracted to flash (spinnerbaits)...
I get them to follow......but they wont hit.
I got locations to start at......lurewise ...theres a bazillion out there....I'm thinkin stick with bucktails but not sure.....
Should I be looking into hardbaits....softbaits......top ..mid ..deep baits......large or downsize early on.
Just dont want to spend a boatload of cash to get started.
These followers are sulking in deep pools with no other cover other than the DEPTH itself......they just appear at boatside
and scare the bageezus out of ya ;D.......its pretty awesome 8)
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Go big on your baits. In the evenings use big musky top water baits. the splashing on top of the water gets there attention. If you get a fish to follow don't slow the bait down. Real fish don't slow down and the musky knows that. If anything speed the bait up like it is trying to get away. Check out Musky hunter magazine. They are head quartered in norther wisconsin in some of the best musky waters in the US. Once saw a guy land a 63inch musky ice fishing up there. As far as where on the lake to go. Go every where. We usually cover 1/4 or more of a 500 acre lake in an outing. Like they say the musky is a Fish of 10,000 casts and they say that for a reason.
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oh did I say a 1000 the fist time. sorry beers had me thinkin wrong. it is 10,000
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On every cast make sure you do a figure 8 with the bait 2 or 3 times. They will hit will doing it.
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Go big on your baits. In the evenings use big musky top water baits. the splashing on top of the water gets there attention. If you get a fish to follow don't slow the bait down. Real fish don't slow down and the musky knows that. If anything speed the bait up like it is trying to get away. Check out Musky hunter magazine. They are head quartered in norther wisconsin in some of the best musky waters in the US. Once saw a guy land a 63inch musky ice fishing up there. As far as where on the lake to go. Go every where. We usually cover 1/4 or more of a 500 acre lake in an outing. Like they say the musky is a Fish of 10,000 casts and they say that for a reason.
Tell me what you think......were talking river fish here......average depth 12ft. .....holes can run max. 20-30ft. deep......length of these holes 30 to 50 yds.
I'm thinking casting would be first option.......trolling possibly second option......I have a feeling that these fish would have a tendency to feed and be looking upward?
How do I approach and fish these areas.......my first thought would be cast the edges concentrating on what structure is available (this would probably result in catching pike).
Would tigers hide in structure along edges like fallen trees and the like (similiar to pike and bass) or would they tend to hold near vs in these structures?
I believe they must relate to structure at times......the question is how.
Or is it possible that they would spend more time suspended at the head.... center or tailout of these holes.
Maybe I should make a couple trolls thru the center of these holes with ( )....fill in blank.......then work my way in to the edges methodically fan casting to cover water?
I can get my hands on Musky Hunter mag. I've actually spent the money......could have probably bought a BAIT for the money I spent on it geeez.
I think with some help on lure selection along with adjusting my approach(quit thinking like a pike) to an area........something has got to happen.
I will most likley be spending more time on the river vs. the lake......cause I'm very familiar with the river and its layout.......just need a plan......man
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If you troll, keed your lines 15 to 25 feet behind the boat. they look for food in that area. As far as structure goes they relate to it as the dinner table. Hanging just outside waiting for an easy meal. Also a large 8-12 inch sucker on a drag pole behind the boat as you move and fish can pick up fish. There is no best bait when I startted I filled the box with about $300.00 worth of stuff just to try out. I switch lures often looking for the color and presentation they are looking for.
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If you troll, keed your lines 15 to 25 feet behind the boat. they look for food in that area. As far as structure goes they relate to it as the dinner table. Hanging just outside waiting for an easy meal. Also a large 8-12 inch sucker on a drag pole behind the boat as you move and fish can pick up fish. There is no best bait when I startted I filled the box with about $300.00 worth of stuff just to try out. I switch lures often looking for the color and presentation they are looking for.
I'm guessing by reading your post that these fish....dont necessarily hide in structure, say timber vs. hang around it?
They relate to it but not in it?
As for lures for someone starting out.....you've got to have some go to lures....ones you feel confident about throwing
when you show up at a new spot.......would you start at the surface with a topwater......then work your way down...bucktail
maybe crankbait....or do you use a certain bait for raising fish.......then coming back later and smack'em with something else?
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vertical presentations for Neutral / negative fish.
Would you expand on this a little .....are we talking big plastics here?
Swim shads...maybe large jigs and trailers?
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There is no secret bait. You start of with what you think will work and you go fron there.
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These are jerk baits, bucktail spinners and anything topwater.
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These are jerk baits, bucktail spinners and anything topwater.
Let me ask you this ........which one of the baits listed above has produced the most fish for you?
I fish for anything that swims and whatever I'm going after I've got go to lures to start with.....I've
aquired a TON of crap along the way that dosent work too.
Musky fishing in my opinion is an exspensive sport.........if it was the only thing I did .....things would
be different :) I realize I'm going to dump some money again.....but I would like to do it with a little
thought behind it ........finding out from members like yourself who are already involved in it......
that way I wont end up with a TON of exspensive crap ;D
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topwater seems to do the best. the splashing and the bubbles may get more strike because the fish can't tell that it is a lure and not a real meal.
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topwater seems to do the best. the splashing and the bubbles may get more strike because the fish can't tell that it is a lure and not a real meal.
I'm going to do some more research.....like any type of fishing its an ongoing thing.......the NYDEC still stocks'em every year at 10" long
Other than a few guys (and I mean a few guys ) that are trolling for them in this one lake...........and the rest just getting lucky fishing
for pike......I dont know of anyone actively pursueing them...........never ever acyually witnessed anyone throwing baits for'em....guess its
up to me.
I'll be talkin to ya.......I'm going to check out some topwaterbaits......and see what you think..... :)
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they are addictive once you have caught once you catch one you gotta have more
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they are addictive once you have caught once you catch one you gotta have more
I've caught one and only one in open water........came on a rattlin rap (firetiger) casting parallel to the shoreline.......
instead of casting to the shoreline.......I was fishing for pike.....it was in the spring......pike where shallow relating
to whatever structure along the shoreline.........the tiger was off the edge of the drop away from shore......
it was between 12-15lbs. beautiful color to it .......almost an aqua green to blueish along the back and stripes.
This is were my problem started.......I'll target a species......figure it out .....get my fill of it.......move on to something else.
This may take 1 month........6 months.......a year or two before I want to go after something else...........
I havent figured this fish out........other than throwing out a boober and sitting there forever waitin for a bite......constantly
working towards a goal is what makes me tick I guess.......until I have some success (and figure these fish out)....I wont rest...
These fish started really huanting me bad last fall.......and I beat the water.....got plenty of pike and bass......but Mr. Toothy never
showed himself.......but guess what......my boat is coming out of storage April 1st........and I'll be looking for him
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I only target them in the Winter and I did OK this year. I just started fishing for them. I did a lot of research and I mean a lot and I formulated a game plan. I fished 2 times, first time I only caught a Walleye. Second time I made an adjustment with bait and I hit this one!
I have never met anyone who targets them.
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I only target them in the Winter and I did OK this year. I just started fishing for them. I did a lot of research and I mean a lot and I formulated a game plan. I fished 2 times, first time I only caught a Walleye. Second time I made an adjustment with bait and I hit this one!
I have never met anyone who targets them.
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I'm in NY myself just south of the Adirondacks. I decided this winter I wanted to find a tiger as I did well with the other game fish for a change of pace. As you did, I did so much research, I though my head was going to explode. I knew what lake I was going to fish and knew where I was going to set up before I got there. I set up between two islands off a saddle towards deep water. It was a pretty quick break and I must have made the right decision for that particular day. I caught one and so did my fiancé. Hers being the bigger one at 36". Mine hit on a large shiner in 8 fow suspended half way down. Hers hit on a 14" dead sucker in 12 fow a few feet off the bottom. I'm still a long ways from figuring them out, but I couldn't be happier ended the ice season like that. Now to find them in open water!
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i've got a lake with a healthy population of Tigers, and i'm looking to fill out that slot in my life list.
this past winter i caught several 10" trout that have quite literally passed through the jaws of death. other prey in the lake are bluegills, perch, and small bass. it's illegal to use live bait here in Idaho, so i was a bit stumped as to what baits i should use under my tipups.
i probably won't target them this summer, but if i catch sight of one while i'm fishing for bluegill, i'd like to be prepared.
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i've got a lake with a healthy population of Tigers, and i'm looking to fill out that slot in my life list.
this past winter i caught several 10" trout that have quite literally passed through the jaws of death. other prey in the lake are bluegills, perch, and small bass. it's illegal to use live bait here in Idaho, so i was a bit stumped as to what baits i should use under my tipups.
i probably won't target them this summer, but if i catch sight of one while i'm fishing for bluegill, i'd like to be prepared.
What about store bought frozen herring?
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Rivers: The tigers basically behave like pures. Concentrate on current breaks and creek mouths, and any cover that breaks current. In more slack areas, they can be anywhere. The like to cruise behind schools of suckers, but are opportunistic feeders. They will hang in cover like any other predator. These fish can literally be anywhere. Don't always focus on the shoreline. In gentle current, they could be away from shore out in the middle, maybe holding on a bolder or behind a ledge, or even a gravel bar.
Use musky lures, and have a selection of different types and sizes to cover the water column. If you are just starting to buy lures, these are good choices:
Bucktails - great for warmer weather and at night, late spring through early fall...but, don't be afraid to toss them during the colder months. Spinnerbaits, pretty much the same thing. Have a good selection of sizes. Small ones may work when larger ones don't, and vice versa. Always do a figure 8.
Crankbaits - like Jakes, Grandma Lures, and such can be cast or trolled. Muskies, including tigers, often will strike at changes of speeds, so working the crankbait with jerks and pauses often will trigger strikes. But if I had to start off a good crankbait selection, I'd get the Bucher Depth Raider and the Shallow Raider. They're mid sized baits that catch a lot of fish, and will cover the water column from 15' up. Crankbaits are good all year long.
Gliders/Jerkbaits - there are a zillion of them out there, but they offer that same erratic action that triggers strikes. The Phantom Softtail, Magic Makers, and Mantas are good choices. I'm not a Suick fan, but my buddies catch plenty of fish on them. I guess that's a confidence thing with me. These work great when the fish are active...especially cooler/colder months. Another thing about these is that you can either do figure 8s or jig them at the end of your cast. Learn to walk the dog beneath the surface with the gliders, and try different speeds and work different depths. If you aren't seeing fish, slow down. If you get follows, try speeding up to produce a bite. Or, try stopping and letting it sink...my buddy's refer to this as the "death pause" and can be as deadly as a figure 8.
Big Soft Plastics - magnum and regular Bull Dawgs, Super D's, or Chaos Medussas are a must have. They work well when casting deeper water. You can jig them, crank them, or use long pulls. These are great for working deep water (casting). Figure 8's or jigging at the end of the cast too.
Topwater - I like the Whopper Plopper and the Bucher Top Raider. Large prop baits work well, as do walk the dog style baits. Summer is prime time for these. But during colder weather, if they are following gliders and not hitting, try a topwater. At the end of the cast, also do figure 8's, and plunge them deep and work your 8 to the top.
Lakes: During cooler months most of the above applies. During warmer months when lakes develop a thermocline, troll to that depth. Grandmas, Depth Raiders or Jakes for mid depths, Believers (shallow), and Plows for deeper water...
On every cast make sure you do a figure 8 with the bait 2 or 3 times. They will hit will doing it.
Great advice. I can't stress this enough. Even if you are trolling, and you pull your lures in to check them to see if they are fouled, do a figure 8 before bringing the lure into the boat, even if it's fouled. Muskies don't care.
A couple more notes:
If you have two rods rigged, have a follow up lure ready especially if you've had a hot follow through multiple 8's. Something different on the next cast to the spot might trigger a bite.
Muskies, including tigers, are very adaptable to their environment. They can handle more current than you'd think. There was a video that someone let me borrow about trolling for muskies, and they had a camera rigged to their down rigger. Muskies would cruise up to their baits with little effort at 5 mph, and actually follow the lures for a long time before hitting or deciding to move off.
Another thing though, is that having a stout XL or XXL longer fishing rod for muskies and the right tackle is very helpful if you're tossing the bigger baits. Not only do these rods make life easier on your shoulders, they're also great for doing those deep figure 8's at boatside.
And finally, persistence pays off. Remember where you had follows or encounters with muskies at various times of the year. Chances are, they'll be there again one day. And worse case scenario, you get to fight some huge northerns!
Good luck!
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Thank you very much for the very detailed write up! Because of it, I have some more ideas for this year.
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Open water fluorescent colors work best and bass size lures. I have done best casting toward structure and June has been my best month.
Hard water tip ups with live and dead bait and early ice I have done best.
Research your lakes and look for long term numbers at least 10 years. Big water - Big fish
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I caught quite a few tigers last year. My one piece of advice is go big. Another is be stealthy. And the last is if you have a proven spot, don't flatline troll over it first pass, hit it with big sticks off inlines first. Some spots in spring/fall can produce multiple fish with multiple passes. The baby tigers are pretty dumb, but once they get bigger, 35" and up, they can be super sketchy and will disppear at the sight of the boat if you aren't stealthy. My two cents.
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I caught quite a few tigers last year. My one piece of advice is go big. Another is be stealthy. And the last is if you have a proven spot, don't flatline troll over it first pass, hit it with big sticks off inlines first. Some spots in spring/fall can produce multiple fish with multiple passes. The baby tigers are pretty dumb, but once they get bigger, 35" and up, they can be super sketchy and will disppear at the sight of the boat if you aren't stealthy. My two cents.
Thanks for the advice, and I'm glad you brought up a proven spot. My fiancé and I fished for tigers our first time over the winter. I had traps all over the place. We iced two fish that day and both came off a saddle between two small islands on the side facing deep water. Mine was in 8 fow and hers (36") was in 12 fow. That being said, I noticed a pattern for that particular day, and I'll certainly keep it in mind for open water. Thanks!
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One thing I forgot to mention is I never found an area that held only tigers. There was always northerns in the same area. And when I mean go big, think of an F18 rapala as pretty small. The smaller fish will hit any size, but the bigger fish seem to key in on bigger bait.
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I noticed that ice fishing. The bigger the bait, the bigger the fish, every flag. There aren't supposed to be northerns in my tiger lake. The tigers are stocked. Have been every year since 2004. It was on a lake that was wiped out , along with many others, by acid rain. I don't know for sure, but I think they were introduced to control another species when they restored the lakes fish population. I could be wrong, but it's something I'd like to find out.