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Author Topic: NY Proposed changes  (Read 6075 times)

filetandrelease

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NY Proposed changes
« on: Dec 22, 2021, 05:15 PM »
 Walleye central posted this
 
7. NY: Proposed reg changes for bigger panfish.

Part of an experimental program (would run from 2022–2025) to grow bigger sunfish and crappies. The proposals include:

Reducing the sunfish statewide daily harvest limit from 50 to 25.
Increasing the crappie statewide minimum size limit from 9″ to 10″.
Implementing an 8″ minimum size limit and a daily harvest limit of 15 for sunfish in [these 11 lakes] chosen for their potential to grow larger sunfish

Increasing the crappie statewide minimum size limit from 9 to 10 inches.
Implementing an 8-inch minimum size limit and a daily harvest limit of 15 for sunfish in the following waters: Blydenburgh Lake (DEC Region 1), Lake Welch (Region 3), Canadarago Lake and Goodyear Lake (Region 4), Saratoga Lake (Region 5), Sixtown Pond and Red Lake (Region 6), Cazenovia Lake and Otisco Lake (Region 7), Honeoye Lake (Region 8), and Silver Lake (Region 9).

trapper2000

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #1 on: Dec 22, 2021, 05:47 PM »
my my my  imagine  my  surprize that they are  expanding  this ..........one on my basic  questions  has always  been ....why  do  we  need  bigger sunfish????? why do we  need  bigger crappies???? most guys  just want to catch a  fish fry and  have  fun....you watch it won't stop   perch are  next
you can destroy buildings  you can't  destroy the  american spirit

taxid

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #2 on: Dec 22, 2021, 06:10 PM »
We don't even have bag limit on sunfish in my state of Indiana. When they are on the beds I've seen anglers take every last one of them. Very heavy pressure on bluegills in my state. Every time many of us say we'd like a bag limit regarding rule change proposal we are ignored.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

Badbrad2186

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #3 on: Dec 22, 2021, 06:11 PM »
I support the Increase in size of Crappie and I support the 8" minimum on blue gills and sun fish. I know when I'm out targeting them all over I don't keep the crappie unless they are 11" or bigger and I don't keep sunfish hardly ever but the place I like to fish for them 10 years ago I could catch a bucket full of huge 10-12" sunnies and gills now it's hard to catch anything but dinks if you catch 5 good fish that's a good day.

filetandrelease

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #4 on: Dec 22, 2021, 11:01 PM »

 From target walleye
 [url][/url

> "The most overplayed concept is
Over harvest of large fish is the fastest way to drive down population size structure. Look at bluegill. You can have a lake that has no bluegill over 6″, take a bunch out, put them in a pond with little to no competition, and the fish respond by getting bigger. Our FiN program does just that, then net them and stock the bigger fish for anglers. Bluegill can also get crowded and stunted, but the second they reach a size desirable to an angler, it is removed from the system.

FrankM

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #5 on: Dec 23, 2021, 12:34 PM »
I hope the new regulations produce the desired results. I love fishing for bluegills and crappie and I never take full limits ever. A dozen are all I care to clean in one session.
Kool Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, Wish we had some, can't wait.

taxid

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #6 on: Dec 23, 2021, 05:47 PM »
From target walleye
 [url][/url

> "The most overplayed concept is
Over harvest of large fish is the fastest way to drive down population size structure. Look at bluegill. You can have a lake that has no bluegill over 6″, take a bunch out, put them in a pond with little to no competition, and the fish respond by getting bigger. Our FiN program does just that, then net them and stock the bigger fish for anglers. Bluegill can also get crowded and stunted, but the second they reach a size desirable to an angler, it is removed from the system.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that stunted bluegills will get bigger when replanted with no competition. I believe it's a myth. If you've observed that then those 6 inch fish were not truly stunted. I've seen research that backs me up. If those 6 inch fish are the biggest and oldest of the population of stunted fish, then it's not likely they will get much bigger as they are near the end of their lifespan. Furthermore bluegills slow down in growth once they reach sexual maturity. What probably happens -- which causes folks to come to your conclusion -- is the 6 inchers spawn, and in the new body of water with abundant food and low density, the offspring grow very rapidly and outgrow their parents. I've seen 8 inch bluegills in my own hatchery ponds in less than 3 years. Indoors I can grow them even faster with controlled temps. Typically, at least around here in our public lakes, an 8 inch bluegill is 6 to 8 years old.

But I do agree with you we our own worst enemy when it comes to growing larger fish, as we tend to remove the largest fish, whether they be the faster growers, or have some kind of genetic advantage over their cohorts -- as in longer life span etc.

I know it's hard to believe, but I have a book about a biological survey of a large a lake here in Indiana from 1900 that states that bluegill got to 14 inches back them. (Yeah it's hard for me to believe but it is in the book). Perhaps anglers have removed the genetics for those large fish by culling the largest fish in the population over the years?
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

kc

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #7 on: Dec 25, 2021, 03:52 PM »
About 20 plus years ago, I would take a buddy and his small kids fishing at Lake Morraine. Back at that time it was nothing to catch a 100 perch in an hour. However they were dink perch (4 to 6 inches). The kids wanted to keep some to take home. My buddy cleaned some of them, but put the rest into his pond.
 In a couple of years, we were pulling 13 inch perch from his pond. It did not last as they apparently were not reproducing in his pond. But it shows that they will go to their surrounding if given a chance.

Actually, my wife asked me just the other day why I did not come home with a bucket of fish like I used to.
 I told her too many fishermen with all their fancy new gear.

taxid

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #8 on: Dec 25, 2021, 05:21 PM »
About 20 plus years ago, I would take a buddy and his small kids fishing at Lake Morraine. Back at that time it was nothing to catch a 100 perch in an hour. However they were dink perch (4 to 6 inches). The kids wanted to keep some to take home. My buddy cleaned some of them, but put the rest into his pond.
 In a couple of years, we were pulling 13 inch perch from his pond. It did not last as they apparently were not reproducing in his pond. But it shows that they will go to their surrounding if given a chance.

Actually, my wife asked me just the other day why I did not come home with a bucket of fish like I used to.
 I told her too many fishermen with all their fancy new gear.

Perhaps you were catching younger perch that were abundant and not stunted?

Hatching, feed training, and raising yellow perch in ponds and tanks I can tell you can they don't have a problem sucessfully spawning in ponds, especially if there is something they can drape their egg ribbons on like aquatic weeds or brush etc. Their downfall is the presence of a good largemouth bass population as long as there aren't too many places for the perch fry to hide. (Overabundance of aquatic vegetation).  Contrary to some publications out there, they aren't prone to stunting in ponds if there is a good predator base in the pond. In fact I have seen them control their own numbers if they are the only species in the pond in one of my ponds. That said, I was also feeding them an artificial diet.

A species that is much more likely to overpopulate a pond is the bluegill if not managed correctly. And you can do everything right and they can still overpopulate as they can spawn up to 4 X per year albeit the spring spawn is the main one.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

trapper2000

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #9 on: Dec 25, 2021, 05:26 PM »
why fix something that is not broke????  people are catching fish  buying licenses and   taking home a dinner  kids are happy everything is  good ....why change it?  and  i  did complain about all the foolish trout regulations that you need to be a lawyer to understand   now what was supposed to be a experiment in a few lakes now  can become  state wide  for  sunfish???? and if you think it's  going to stop your   crazy  why  they will make a 11  inch min on perch   so we have  13 inchers  everywhere and a  15 fish limit......this  foolishness isn't going to stop

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - President Reagan    remember him?????
you can destroy buildings  you can't  destroy the  american spirit

kc

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #10 on: Dec 25, 2021, 07:12 PM »
Perhaps you were catching younger perch that were abundant and not stunted?

Hatching, feed training, and raising yellow perch in ponds and tanks I can tell you can they don't have a problem sucessfully spawning in ponds, especially if there is something they can drape their egg ribbons on like aquatic weeds or brush etc. Their downfall is the presence of a good largemouth bass population as long as there aren't too many places for the perch fry to hide. (Overabundance of aquatic vegetation).  Contrary to some publications out there, they aren't prone to stunting in ponds if there is a good predator base in the pond. In fact I have seen their control their own numbers if they are the only species in the pond in one of my ponds. That said I was also feeding them an artificial diet.

A species that is much more likely to overpopulate a pond is the bluegill if not managed correctly. And you can do everything right and they can stil overpopulate as they can spawn up to 4 X per year albeit the spring spawn is the main one.

That was the problem, too many largemouth bass.

Badbrad2186

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #11 on: Dec 25, 2021, 08:51 PM »
why fix something that is not broke????  people are catching fish  buying licenses and   taking home a dinner  kids are happy everything is  good ....why change it?  and  i  did complain about all the foolish trout regulations that you need to be a lawyer to understand   now what was supposed to be a experiment in a few lakes now  can become  state wide  for  sunfish???? and if you think it's  going to stop your   crazy  why  they will make a 11  inch min on perch   so we have  13 inchers  everywhere and a  15 fish limit......this  foolishness isn't going to stop

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - President Reagan    remember him?????

I think your stretching it a little far. We have places in this state ther is no limit on perch so unless they are starting there I doubt your going got see a 15 perch limit or a length limit on them. In my 35 years I haven't seen the limit or a size limit change ever. So go take another hit of what ever great stuff your on and rethink what your talking about. I think your just looking to stir trouble like everywhere else you comment

Badbrad2186

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #12 on: Dec 25, 2021, 08:59 PM »
i mite eat more fish than a pack of otters but im being honest to what i have noticed.  so im not being bias in my statements because i like to harvest a boat load.

I agree with what you have posted. I fish a private pond that my family has been fishing for 70+ years and we harvest only 9+ inch gills out of it anything smaller goes back. We have managed to keep this pond the way it was when my Grandpa and Great uncle's where kids.

filetandrelease

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #13 on: Dec 26, 2021, 05:55 AM »
 Taxid that’s not my statement that came right out of (Target Walleye)
 In my 45+ years just ice fishing I have seen bodies of water fished out and others become stunted do to under harvesting but that’s just my observation
 State wide regs won’t work  IMO
 
 

62 & Done

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Re: NY Proposed changes
« Reply #14 on: Dec 26, 2021, 06:25 PM »
I like the concept and I wish it would work but it's just plain stupid.  Some waters will produce large fish because the genetics are there. Some waters are totally different You couldn't get a 10" gill if he lived 20 yrs   Now we're going to make it a state wide law to target 8" gills and 10" crappies which will only produce more violaters and more citations handed out by the ECO.  Most guys targeting pannies are only interested in a fish fry regardless of the length. Let it be. I rate this right up there with the belief that all bucks will be a 12 pointer if he is allowed to live 10 yrs
         One of the stupidest laws ever

 



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