SUMMER SALMON ETHICS? Now that the Thermocline has concentrated Salmon??

[dickbaker]

     I don't know if your are the best group to ask?     BUT!    July and August will provide the most consistent salmon fishing from the stratified cold water  40 to 60 feet  in our best Salmon Lakes.   Big Lakes biologist have concerns that this is the time when fishermen can do the most damage to delicate Salmon?    Pulling a Salmon from 54 degree water at 50 foot depth  and netting it in 70 degree water will result in a great deal of mortality , particularly for young fish of the year!     Placing a Salmon in a live well is a death sentence?   

A biologist's dream is that we would troll for a few hours , until we netted a couple of keeper Salmon,  and take them home to eat?   Remember that NH Big Lakes Salmon program is a Put&Take  plan.   Netting and releasing 10 to 20 salmon a day is exciting but not part of a long termed Salmon management plan??   

I hope to do a related article  for August , but I need input from active Salmon fishermen!   I would hate to adversely effect the small number of professional charter fishermen who make a living providing tourists with exciting Big Lakes fishing trips and I feel that they do their very best to care for the fish that they bring to the net.  Is it a NEW ETHIC that we need to learn or will it require some serious F&G regulations?   

Hope to hear from some long time Big Lakes Salmon fishermen??
Dick

[Smells Like Fish NH]

My Salmon trips end in NH right about Memorial Day weekend Dick, so sorry I cant help you out here. Id have better info if you were looking Champlain or Ontario. I cant be bothered with going on the salmon lakes in NH once all the recreational boats hit the water. From many requests for information I have received lately, not many people even understand what the thermocline is and how to catch salmon. They are asking me about trolling 30ft down for salmon, which sounds good except that they are over 40ft of water. It doesn't appear that people know that salmon are a cold water species and that trolling in bays of water that are too warm will not bring any hookup success. Having a depth/temp probe is really the best way to find those fish once the water warms and sets up.

Good luck!

[fishlessman]

i do most of my fishing on sebago now but the long leads are put away in august, downriggers are mostly used so the lines are short, and interesting is that most of my big fish come off the planer with a two color lead top shot.  single hooks and they sometimes release themselves in the net. also keep the rod tips low so they are NOT JUMPING. fishing early hours and those fish are on top, should be seeing them anytime now in the morning with the yoy smelt dimpling the surface. they might not like 70 degree water but they feed in it all the time before that sun gets too high. keeping lines shot, getting them in quick i think helps alot. sebago is covered with runt salmon right now, everywhere, they usually school up in the lower part of the big bay so you can stay away from them, just hasnt happened yet, im thinking its because the water got too hot too fast and the yoy smelt have not setup yet. mostly hit the shore dropp offs at first light for an hour or two then head out to laker water and off the water before the first ski boat drops skiers right in front of my bow around 10 am

[JoeGG]

i do most of my fishing on sebago now but the long leads are put away in august, downriggers are mostly used so the lines are short, and interesting is that most of my big fish come off the planer with a two color lead top shot.  single hooks and they sometimes release themselves in the net. also keep the rod tips low so they are NOT JUMPING. fishing early hours and those fish are on top, should be seeing them anytime now in the morning with the yoy smelt dimpling the surface. they might not like 70 degree water but they feed in it all the time before that sun gets too high. keeping lines shot, getting them in quick i think helps alot. sebago is covered with runt salmon right now, everywhere, they usually school up in the lower part of the big bay so you can stay away from them, just hasnt happened yet, im thinking its because the water got too hot too fast and the yoy smelt have not setup yet. mostly hit the shore dropp offs at first light for an hour or two then head out to laker water and off the water before the first ski boat drops skiers right in front of my bow around 10 am

i agree with you. I have caught salmon all summer after dinner zipping along with one color and a streamer. I also had a summer where I would go out after dinner and troll right on top with a Mooselook and catch salmon. I also don't catch salmon deeper than 30 ft. But that may be just me. Is there a study that shows salmon die after being brought up from the depths, because I have yet to see a salmon I release go belly up.

[fishlessman]

i agree with you. I have caught salmon all summer after dinner zipping along with one color and a streamer. I also had a summer where I would go out after dinner and troll right on top with a Mooselook and catch salmon. I also don't catch salmon deeper than 30 ft. But that may be just me. Is there a study that shows salmon die after being brought up from the depths, because I have yet to see a salmon I release go belly up.

the long lead lines will do it, too long of a battle in warm water. i see posts with people using up to 20 colors of lead. i would poke my eyes out before doing that

[dickbaker]

My Salmon trips end in NH right about Memorial Day weekend Dick, so sorry I cant help you out here. Id have better info if you were looking Champlain or Ontario. I cant be bothered with going on the salmon lakes in NH once all the recreational boats hit the water. From many requests for information I have received lately, not many people even understand what the thermocline is and how to catch salmon. They are asking me about trolling 30ft down for salmon, which sounds good except that they are over 40ft of water. It doesn't appear that people know that salmon are a cold water species and that trolling in bays of water that are too warm will not bring any hookup success. Having a depth/temp probe is really the best way to find those fish once the water warms and sets up.

Good luck!

Scott,  How about your input related to Lake Champlain.  Now is the time that Champlain United will be reporting dozens of salmon pulled up from 50 or 60 feet of water.   They also tell me that they have no obvious hook damage??    I fish Champlain until mid July because  I'm pretty much out of the Inland Sea and the warm water fish are too tempting>
Dick

[dickbaker]

Joe,   Contact John Viar the Big Lakes biologist for confirmation that salmon brought up from 54 degree depths  will have high mortality when fought in 70 degree plus surface water.   Whenever I live well a summer salmon into surface temp. water is takes a few minutes before it is dead.
Since you evening fish for salmon out of you cottage I would love to have you keep track of your catch and release or better your catch and eat?
Dick

[Seahunt]

I think I mentioned this recently but a cold water fish brought up from the deep and swims away in the summer months does by no means guarantee it's survival.

DB, You ought to go over your rule book again.
Any Winni fish (maybe other NH LL lakes) that are being kept need to be dispatched immediately!
No more live wells. If I was planning to keep them this time of year, I'd put them on ice vs. 70+ degree water.   

[whitewing]

Digest pg. 11 - unlawful actions- No person shall have live lake trout, landlocked salmon, brook trout, black bass, northern pike, or black crappie in their possession,  except if the person is a bass tournament permittee or is an aquaculturist  permittee or has a permit to import possess or release these fish.

[fishlessman]

be careful with that livewell in maine if you cross borders. thats a ticket, 1 year loss license, and an 8 hour course in ethics

[dickbaker]

I think I mentioned this recently but a cold water fish brought up from the deep and swims away in the summer months does by no means guarantee it's survival.

DB, You ought to go over your rule book again.
Any Winni fish (maybe other NH LL lakes) that are being kept need to be dispatched immediately!
No more live wells. If I was planning to keep them this time of year, I'd put them on ice vs. 70+ degree water.   

Seahunt,  thanks for reminding me.  I'm so used to seeing Champlain fishemen showing salmon in their live wells.   On the other hand I remember watching two Kayakers come into Alton this Spring with  live salmon on stringers? 
Dick

[dickbaker]

Digest pg. 11 - unlawful actions- No person shall have live lake trout, landlocked salmon, brook trout, black bass, northern pike, or black crappie in their possession,  except if the person is a bass tournament permittee or is an aquaculturist  permittee or has a permit to import possess or release these fish.

Thanks also to whitewing!     I guess my point was that July and August salmon won't survive in a live with 70 degree plus water temp.    As I mentioned I hope more salmon fishermen will spend just a couple of hours trolling and when they have two keepers they will simply BOP  them  on the head and throw them on ice!   We have to endeavor to lower our catch and release numbers.   Hoping that devout salmon anglers can offer ways to get more fishermen to do that??
Dick

[Seahunt]

Seahunt,  thanks for reminding me.  I'm so used to seeing Champlain fishemen showing salmon in their live wells.   On the other hand I remember watching two Kayakers come into Alton this Spring with  live salmon on stringers? 
Dick[/color]

Well, that's two more that need to read the book and or change their ethics.   

[BrookieSlayer99]

I'm sorry Dick but you aren't going to find a whole lot of salmon fishermen that actually take the utmost care of the fish they catch. John V. does not have a number for mortality rate in the summer, as no study on that has been done on that. He can probaBly give you a good estimate though. The bigger part is handling time, because if you land a 3lb salmon quickly and release it IMMEDIATELY then I would bet it's survival rate is actually pretty good. For those of you that don't do this, just get your two fish and leave. Think about the whole resource.

[NH_RED]

Love these popcorn threads. Those that will will and those that won't won't..... The big worry should be about getting better forage for the fish in the bigger lakes. I get so tired hearing about the smelt that use to  be everywhere now gone from many water bodies and fractions of historical highs in most that still contain them. I think John recognizes this as well as others. IMO that should be a big focus to better the fishery.