SUMMER SALMON ETHICS? Now that the Thermocline has concentrated Salmon??

[dickbaker]

Ok How do we get salmon fishermen to consider the "whole resource"?    Are they willing take home a couple of fish and be satisfied that they had a good day as well as left a good number of growing fish??
Dick

[zwiggles]

Short time salmon fisherman here so I'm not sure if I should reply to this post, but.....

I would like to challenge this posts participants to come to a consensus on two (sort of) items:

1. Best practices for releasing a salmonoid quickly.

2. 3 simple things fisherman can do to help the fish out. i.e. Changing out hooks, not using 20 colors of lead, changing spots on the lake when catching runt fish, etc.

Maybe this way some of us new salmon fisherman can have a reference to go to for best practices.

[NH_RED]

I think the catch and release practices have come o long way in the last decade. A good rubber net and common sense go along ways. Barbless hooks always a good choice as well.minimal time out of the water is very important. Me and my buddy have really good luck keeping the fish in the net next to the boat swimming along. Sometimes up to five minutes and they speed right off and down when they get their bearings back. I have had bows stay right in the prop wash for quarter mile until they took off. Giving them time to let the latic acid subside from the fight is just as important. You guys know that have done it , You can feel the fish and know when it is ready to go. Again common sense goes a long way. Every fish  every fight and conditions are different.

Short time salmon fisherman here so I'm not sure if I should reply to this post, bluckut.....

I would like to challenge this posts participants to come to a consensus on two (sort of) items:

1. Best practices for releasing a salmonoid quickly.

2. 3 simple things fisherman can do to help the fish out. i.e. Changing out hooks, not using 20 colors of lead, changing spots on the lake when catching runt fish, etc.

Maybe this way some of us new salmon fisherman can have a reference to go to for best practices.

[JoeGG]

Joe,   Contact John Viar the Big Lakes biologist for confirmation that salmon brought up from 54 degree depths  will have high mortality when fought in 70 degree plus surface water.   Whenever I live well a summer salmon into surface temp. water is takes a few minutes before it is dead.
Since you evening fish for salmon out of you cottage I would love to have you keep track of your catch and release or better your catch and eat?
Dick

I speak with Mr Viar quite a bit. I release every salmon I catch and have kept one brown to skin mount and ate 1 or 2 others in the last few years. I still disagree. I would have to witness them belly up to convince me. I'm sure the ones that jump several times may not fare as well as others but if you don't expose them to 90 degree temps while fumbling for a scale or tape measure and keep them in a rubber net and release them, they do fine.

[JoeGG]

And while I would love to continue with this, I have to get up at 3am so I can yank a giant bow up from 25 feet. (which is well above the death depth of salmonids) Hopefully I will have a selfie to share with all of you because I am fishing alone. Wish me luck.

[fishnmachine]

Dick, you started this thread saying how this was a put and take fishery.  What "whole resource" are you referring to?  I support ethical aquaculture.   

[MikeF-NH]

Sorry Dick...I am lucky to hit winni for salmon one or two times after May but there are a few things that I think impact most salmon fishermen that do not live on the lake that you addressed:
1.) biologists would prefer they catch 2 salmon and pack it in rather than C and R 10-20: The cost of gas to get up to the lake and launching plus boat gas is probably well over $50 each trip. I think many fishermen not living on the lake would not want to spend that kind of money only to get on a hot bite, catch two fish and pick up gear. My recommendation to them would be "then drop down for lakers after those two"....but I can certainly see why fishermen - having heavily invested in their sport - want to enjoy a hot bite.
2.) There are several guides on the lake (God bless them). I don't think anyone would suggest that they tell their clients "well we caught two...the bite is pretty hot...we better pack it up". Plus these guys are GOOD at their craft. Its hard to suggest that rec fishermen pack it in but the professionals should fish hard for an entire charter.

It seems this has been a strange year on the Big Lake. Many are having trouble with adjusting. I don't feel that a fishermen who has been putting in lots of time trying to figure out the fishery and finally has a good day should feel he is unethical for enjoying that day (as long as he stays within the limits of the law). Again...I don't have a horse in the race as I rarely salmon fish after May. I also don't find myself cursing guides or summer time success story fishermen if I have an "off Spring" fishing the lake. While some behavior can be modified by following the Salmon Pledge without sacrificing a good day of fishing, I think how the lake is fished in the summer time is something that will not change. Part of the biologists job is to see how the resource is utilized and adjust how they manage it to maximize its success.

[dickbaker]

And while I would love to continue with this, I have to get up at 3am so I can yank a giant bow up from 25 feet. (which is well above the death depth of salmonids) Hopefully I will have a selfie to share with all of you because I am fishing alone. Wish me luck.

Sounds great Joe   Hope to see that picture today.
Dick

[dickbaker]

 ???Mike,   Like you I rarely troll for salmon after June.   Careful release is probably even more important because the fish aren't in shock from temperature change?    But back to my original post,  I'm  only concerned about the weeks after the thermocline  has set up and salmon are concentrated in 40 or 50 ft. of water with 50 degree water temp.   I know that its illegal but I would love to have fishermen put summer salmon in
70 plus degree live well and see how well they do?    I don't think you will have to worry about wardens because I'm  pretty sure you will find the salmon dead before you return to the launch?    
    Would it be a hardship to plan long range fishing trips before the heat of summer or in the fall?   Would it be asking too much for Winni residents to catch a couple of fish and call it a day?    Maybe even ask guides to troll fewer rods even when  they have three children on board?? 
    Should we mandate barbless, siwash hooks?    How do we get all trollers to purchase a rubber net or even try to release the fish while still in the water??      Should we modify the Salmon Anglers Pledge to note that it isn't necessary to "stop" a boat while landing a  fish??   
How do we approach anglers,  NEW to the salmon trolling adventure,  to do all that is best for the salmon, while taking home a couple for a fish dinner?
Dick
   

[dickbaker]

Dick, you started this thread saying how this was a put and take fishery.  What "whole resource" are you referring to?  I support ethical aquaculture.   

    fishnmachine,   NH Big Lakes provide primarily stocked salmon and rainbow trout.   They are provided so that they will grow and be caught.
The ideal would be for them to provide maximum year class sizes.   Winni has become a 4 star fishery for salmon numbers and thus attracts numbers of trollers and possibly an equal amount of fish mortality??   That mortality might  be in the younger salmon??   I guess its a large scale
aquaculture project??   The only difference is that commercial salmon aquaculture  doesn't seem to be aimed at producing 5 or 6 pound Atlantic salmon?   Now that Lake Winni seems to have such a shortage of 4 pound salmon (but has a great forage base of smelt)  we have to decide where the blame is located??   We obviously kill far too many young salmon??   Maybe that is a good status quo?    That's what I'm trying to understand.

Dick

[fishnmachine]

 When someone starts talking “ethics” in relation to a legal fishing activity it almost makes my skin crawl. If salmon size and mortality rates were such an issue, you can rest assured that the government would intervene with further limit restrictions, tackle restrictions, and or season dates as necessary. Obviously supply and demand and income and expense are still within the scope of their vision, or more restrictions would be added. As in all things, economics is a ruling force.
    Just so you understand I’m not just blowing smoke, I do support the Downeast Salmon Federation. I’d like nothing more than to be able to catch a wild-run Atlantic salmon, someday, even if it is through a lottery system. (Dang economic thing again!)
    Preaching here is preaching to the choir. MFFers aren’t the problem, and are probably the most ethical fishermen you will find.  IMO, thank you. 

[NH_RED]

Wouldn't the flip side to that be this... If that many salmon are meeting there maker after being released would that not allow those left to thrive not having as much competition for food(Smelt).  I think we are talking about a small percentage of fish being caught during these hot summer months as well. A good percentage of these fish are being caught and released early in the morning and evening. Not a lot of trolling activity during the day with so much recreational boating going on. Like Joe says, these fish come up into the warmer water to feed on other plentiful things and can handle the warmer temps for short periods of time so it is not a death sentence.

"The  dissolved  oxygen  concentration  of  five  milligrams  per  liter  is  commonly  considered  the  minimum dissolved oxygen concentration required for the successful growth and reproduction of coldwater fish such as rainbow trout and salmon. "

That is the ideal threshold for them to thrive not necessarily survive.  That is why I think some evening trolls can be more productive. You get a nice breeze and lots of recreational boat activity during the day and the top layer gets pretty stirred up and  will contain more oxygen for the fish to come up.

[JoeGG]

Well, I almost had him. Very big bow took 3 colors and spit the hook as he was eyeing me broadside on top. I did get two beautiful specimens. One was 3 1/2 weighed and the other was a bit bigger but I released it next to the boar. All alone. No pics

[dickbaker]

Joe,   Glad you got fish.  If there is any one who might underestimate the size of a fish its probably you.   Let me know when I can come down and handle the net and camera for you.
Best  Dick

[dickbaker]

the long lead lines will do it, too long of a battle in warm water. i see posts with people using up to 20 colors of lead. i would poke my eyes out before doing that
[/quote 

Who uses 20 colors of lead core?   That's   120  or more feet deep where a downrigger might be better to chase lakers in 100 ft, of water??
Reeling in 20 colors of lead would seem like a silly effort??

Dick