SUMMER SALMON ETHICS? Now that the Thermocline has concentrated Salmon??

[JoeGG]

I thought I read that after a certain amt of colors, the line levels off and it's useless to keep adding lead line. I'm not a physics expert so can someone verify if it's true?

[dickbaker]

  Joe,  one hour of web research informs me that (at 5 ft per color ) leadcore will reach the thermocline at 50 ft. (10 colors) and seem to flatten out at that  depth??    Of course  that's at about 2 miles per hour?   I guess if you wanted to troll at 1 mph the line could go even deeper??
I've never trolled more than 4 colors of lead core so I don't have any input about it fish catching success??
Dick

[JoeGG]

I understand it drops 5 feet per color at 2mph. That's a given. I just thought I read somewhere that after a certain amount of colors, it levels off and it's fruitless to let any more  out. I could be wrong. I may have dreamt it.

[Dispy]

I understand it drops 5 feet per color at 2mph. That's a given. I just thought I read somewhere that after a certain amount of colors, it levels off and it's fruitless to let any more  out. I could be wrong. I may have dreamt it.

We use all 10 colors to target the depths successfully.........lead sinks..flouro or mono will level out..hope all is well Joe

[Seahunt]

FWIW, 5' per color @ 2 mph SOG is pretty "standard" figuring.
Truth be known, the LC weight 12, 14, 15, 18, 27# etc. are huge factors.
They don't all have the same diameter lead. The sheathing thickness varies. "Thinner" helps sink "thicker" adds buoyancy.
Then we have the new micro leads.
Then there's current, water temp (cold water is more dense) etc..

Outside turns raise leads and inside turns the LC sinks (speed influences).     

[dickbaker]

I understand it drops 5 feet per color at 2mph. That's a given. I just thought I read somewhere that after a certain amount of colors, it levels off and it's fruitless to let any more  out. I could be wrong. I may have dreamt it.
[/quot

Joe,   I read that too. It stated that at 2 mph and 10 colors the lead line and leader wouldn't go any deeper?
Dick

[NH Trout Fisherman]

Just a personal observation and Curious as to other people's thoughts?

I don't hunt and troll alot throughout the year & from what others have commented so far... Personally I don't see there is as much pressure for the salmon during the warmer months (July& August) As was said water temps are up and although there may be a few boats out early... Most are off the water by 10am or so. Recreational boaters are all over the lakes by then and trolling at 2mph when the sun is beating down on You at 80-90*++ isnt too comfortable or very productive.

[dickbaker]

 ???Keith.   I've never been on the Big Pond mid summer?    I would appreciate site members giving me some idea when the boat traffic becomes unbearable and if the sun is too much with top cover and ice cooler?   Since the fish are coming from 50 deep I don't know how much the traffic would effect salmon as it does in May and June when fish are on the surface?   
Anyone fishing the big mayfly hatches of late June or July knows that the trout will come into 70  degree plus water.  They do this by choice for gourmet flies and can return to cooler water when they feel stressed.  They can't put a lot of energy into a fight once hooked?
Dick

[fishlessman]

the long lead lines will do it, too long of a battle in warm water. i see posts with people using up to 20 colors of lead. i would poke my eyes out before doing that
[/quote 

Who uses 20 colors of lead core?   That's   120  or more feet deep where a downrigger might be better to chase lakers in 100 ft, of water??
Reeling in 20 colors of lead would seem like a silly effort??

Dick

ive seen it on this site, people wanting a reel to hold 20 colors. i only have 1 10 color setup now, all my other reels are 2 or 3 color top shots over backing now. only reason i have a 10 color setup is that sometimes in may or june i like to handline suttons on 30 to 40 foot deep sandy shoals and getting a sutton down that deep at 1 mph is about 5 to 6 colors where i can feel the bottom drag. deadly on togue on sebago and over on willoughby. but yes, ive seen 20 colors posted here and know some that still pay out 10 colors of lead trolling for salmon, that salmon would be dead before it got to the boat

[zwiggles]

???Keith.   I've never been on the Big Pond mid summer?    I would appreciate site members giving me some idea when the boat traffic becomes unbearable and if the sun is too much with top cover and ice cooler?   Since the fish are coming from 50 deep I don't know how much the traffic would effect salmon as it does in May and June when fish are on the surface?   
Anyone fishing the big mayfly hatches of late June or July knows that the trout will come into 70  degree plus water.  They do this by choice for gourmet flies and can return to cooler water when they feel stressed.  They can't put a lot of energy into a fight once hooked?
Dick

I was out in the big pond Saturday, and the only salmon/bows we got were after 10am, and in the top 20' of water. The salmon actually hit a steamer on full sink fly line which really surprised me. And the two bows came on 4 colors of lead. All nice healthy fish, and the two we cleaned were chock full of bugs. It was very difficult to leave once the bite picked up, but after a few brain farts and having to release a dead laker we called it. (Laker was 17 or I would have eaten him, and was foul hooked and got dragged up from 100'+. Made three separate attempts, but had to leave him for the eagle)

As far as fishing pressure we were the only boat trolling at 10am except for a few idiots who kept lifting 8" salmon out of the water and shaking them off. That really bugged me, but can't say much when it's not illegal. There were probably 10 boats out there In there in the early morning, but we were down to two of us by 9-10am. I think most people call it early this time of year. We had 4 people in the boat including my brother who doesn't get a chance to get out much so we kept grinding through all the pleasure boaters, and I am glad we did.

[dickbaker]

zwiggle   I think rainbows can handle warmer water than salmon?   Did you live well any fish??   I don't know how to educate those killing of young salmon??   Still glad you caught some fish!
Dick

[NH_RED]

Why would they live well them?  They get released  or killed and kept. 

[zwiggles]

No live well for me. In the past when I attempted to revive fish in the live well during the summer it never worked. I even tried adding ice to the water to cool it down, but it always seemed to be a death sentence for the fish. I try to make sure that the fish is off as soon as possible during the summer, and only take pics of the ones were going to eat. The laker that expired fell out of the net and hit the boat carpeting which I'm pretty sure sealed his fate.

[Seahunt]

???Mike,   Like you I rarely troll for salmon after June.   Careful release is probably even more important because the fish aren't in shock from temperature change?    But back to my original post,  I'm  only concerned about the weeks after the thermocline  has set up and salmon are concentrated in 40 or 50 ft. of water with 50 degree water temp.   I know that its illegal but I would love to have fishermen put summer salmon in
70 plus degree live well and see how well they do?    I don't think you will have to worry about wardens because I'm  pretty sure you will find the salmon dead before you return to the launch?    
    Would it be a hardship to plan long range fishing trips before the heat of summer or in the fall?   Would it be asking too much for Winni residents to catch a couple of fish and call it a day?    Maybe even ask guides to troll fewer rods even when  they have three children on board?? 
    Should we mandate barbless, siwash hooks?    How do we get all trollers to purchase a rubber net or even try to release the fish while still in the water??      Should we modify the Salmon Anglers Pledge to note that it isn't necessary to "stop" a boat while landing a  fish??   
How do we approach anglers,  NEW to the salmon trolling adventure,  to do all that is best for the salmon, while taking home a couple for a fish dinner?
Dick
   

Did you live well any fish??   I don't know how to educate those killing of young salmon?? 

DB... It's stuff like the above that isn't going to help anyone's "education." 

If your boat has any free board at all, don't mess with taking hooks out overboard. Does more harm then any possible good it could.

It's become obvious that you have this thing about watching salmonoids die in warm live wells!
"We've" already enlightened you about it's illegality. Why are you still promoting or even bringing up the subject?

I'm guessing your motives are good. Know that you're looking for real data for your upcoming article.
More education is fine as long as it's done by people with experience who know the rules.   

[dickbaker]

 ???I think it does help fishermen to learn but I'm not sure that this site has access to brand new salmon fishermen??   Could you let me see a view of your boat and gear and give me an idea of your annual fishing schedule?   
Dick