Bonds...Love Him or Hate Him

[Thestanimal]

Personally i think they guy is a complete A$#  Cheat, Liar, Steriod User, and the baby has his own clubhouse at the park seperate from his teammates.  Complete scum.  But that is just my humble opinion.

[Pasquatch]

Are you asking our opinion?

Because I think basically the same thing as you do.

[archbishop]

hes always been a homerun hitter, he may have not gotten over 700 if he didnt use steroids but he would have been close, right now hes just guilty by association, he hasnt been caught with anything, even though we all know hes up to something, there will always be an asteric* next to his name, i dont think hes a scumbag, hell he was just the one that broke records on steroids, he wassnt the only one on steroids

[Pasquatch]

I don't have a big problem with the steroids, its notthose that make everyone hate him. Guys like Jason Giambi took them, fessed up, and its no big deal. They were not banned by the MLB, and alot of people used them. Its how he treats the fans, lies to investigators, and is a whining little biznatch that makes everyone dislike him.

[archbishop]

yeah but you also have to remember how he was raised, who his dad and godfather are, if you grew up in that setting and with that perception of the media and always being hounded you would shun everyone too, its not an excuse but im sure that has alot to do with it

[Pikeguy]

Personally i think they guy is a complete A$#  Cheat, Liar, Steriod User, and the baby has his own clubhouse at the park seperate from his teammates.  Complete scum.  But that is just my humble opinion.

Mine too 

[Thestanimal]

Are you asking our opinion?

Because I think basically the same thing as you do.

I am asking for others opinions.  I brought this topic up because i just finished that book Game of Shadows which is about the steriod scandal involving bonds and many others.  Excellent read if anyone is interested.

[archbishop]

lol, they just ordered the authors of game of shadows to testify who leaked them the info that barry did steroids, they said they will never tell and would rather go to jail, i love it, even the people who are trying to burn him wont, they are just trying to make a boat load of money with a book and get more publicity, speculation is that its fabricated info and they have no people to reveal

[Thestanimal]

Here's who they (USADA, IRS, feds) have actual records of athlete's taking illegal performance enhancing drugs:

1.  Both Giambi brothers (look at the dramatic decrease in size once Jason got off...BTW your fooling yourself if you think he isn't still on them).
2.  Bonds (obviosuly)
3.  Benito Santiago (catcher-SF)
4.  Gary Sheffield (who even admitted taking supplements from BALCO labs, but claimed he didn't know what they were)
5.  Bobby Estella
6.  Alex Rios
7.  Bill Romanoski
8.  Tim Montgomery (sprinter)
9.  Marion Jones

There is no "speculation"  There is too much factual information in the book that goes beyond the sealed grand jury testimony tha indicts all of these athletes.  A very revealing book and I highly recommend it to any sports fan. 

[archbishop]

Here's who they (USADA, IRS, feds) have actual records of athlete's taking illegal performance enhancing drugs:

1.  Both Giambi brothers (look at the dramatic decrease in size once Jason got off...BTW your fooling yourself if you think he isn't still on them).
2.  Bonds (obviosuly)
3.  Benito Santiago (catcher-SF)
4.  Gary Sheffield (who even admitted taking supplements from BALCO labs, but claimed he didn't know what they were)
5.  Bobby Estella
6.  Alex Rios
7.  Bill Romanoski
8.  Tim Montgomery (sprinter)
9.  Marion Jones

There is no "speculation"  There is too much factual information in the book that goes beyond the sealed grand jury testimony tha indicts all of these athletes.  A very revealing book and I highly recommend it to any sports fan. 

the difference between those athletes and bonds is they were found guilty

bonds is tested every 30 seconds, yet he is still nailing them out, people say he is in a slump because he was off the roids, people forget he didnt play last year and had to get back into the swing of things, look at him now, back to nailing them out, im not saying he didnt use, im saying until they have proof other than a book written by people who used facts of people everyone already knew about and admitted to using, and threw bonds name in there with perfect timing while he was going through his troubles, to make the book more interesting and make millions off of, that to me is not the facts, its money talks and dummies believe these book writers wont reveal there sources because either they have none, or if they do the truth will be out and no one will need the book, either way there not people im going to believe

[Thestanimal]

Here's your proof:

1.  Greg Anderson is Barry Bonds personal trainer and a known steriod dealer.  Giambi, santiago, Estella, Randy Valerde all testified that they go their stuff from Greg Anderson.  Anderson was always in the giants clubhouse and traveled all over the world withnbonds.  you do the math

2.  Victor Conte who owned BALCO and admitted to the press, investigators, and the grand jury that he gave bonds HGH, TGH, Insulin, and The Cream and several other performance enhancing drugs.

3.  Bonds 13 year history prior to Roids:

These are the averages of those years combined
1986-1998:  Games: 146, AB:  509, Runs 105, Hits 147, HR 32, SB 34, Batting average 290, OBP 411

The Roid years
1999-2004:  Games: 136, AB 413, Runs 118, Hits 136, HR 49 Sb 10, Batting Average .328, OBP .517

Fewer AB's, Hits and interesting to note he gained production in every category except SB's.  Wonder why-lean muscle gain maybe. 

During age 35-39 Bonds batted .339, hit 258 homers and drove in 544 runs.  His performance was slightly better than the 2nd best 5 year run of all time.  Ruth's first 5 years with the Yankees from age 25-29 Ruth hit 370, with 235 home runs, 659 RBI's.  No other player came close.

BTW in the back of the book the authors identify their sources of information.

[Thestanimal]

Here bonds stats for 2006

   G   AB   R   H  2B 3B HR RBI SB BA   OBP SLG
 112 308 63 81 19 0  22  62   3 .263 .462 .539

[archbishop]

show me a picture of anyone at 20 then at 40 in professional sports? thats the dumbest argument you have made so far, everyone bulks up with age

of course stolen bases went down and everything else was around the same, bonds is well known and documented to have the best swing in baseball, did steroids do that? no, but steroids slowed him down? come on now, you just keep believing proof brought on by profit in a book

i will believe when he is proven guilty

look at bobby's stats, and tell me barry didnt inherite these genes and lets not forget who his godfather is

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/bondsbo01.php

[bassjunky]

I need to get in on this one......I hate Bonds, he is easily the most hated man in Baseball History (next to Cobb).

Each of you have made some good points..

Arch I have to strike out at a point you made about size and everyone putting on bulk as they get older. This is true but you have to admit that Bonds has put more bulk on then the average player. And just for a size comparison  here is Hank Aaron at the start of his career and around the point in which he passed the Babe, you wont notice that much differnce in his size and he sure as hell is no where near the size of the roid poppin Bonds

 

As for the fact that he never got caught....well he did have a well timed injury that put him out for just about long enuff to ensure the riods would not show up in his system.

my 2cents, and I have yet to read any books on the topic

[archbishop]

well timed injury? he is still subject to drug tests?

no not all put on that much weight, but majority of player do put on at least 20 pounds over 20+ years, you cannot deny bonds swing, best in baseball, and with all the drug testing he rips what 4 or 5 homeruns in the last 5-6 games he started slow because he took a year off, any athelete would be the same i dont like bonds either, i think he (personally not athleticaly) is an total arse, but im not going to take from his athletic ability until "real" proof comes out, not a book with a timely release date whenever proof gets profit it gets dismissed in my book