Salmon and Trout Snagging??

[Fat Boy]

One more thing, in the creeks, jack salmon don't die, they're up there to feed... and I'd bet that even if they weren't feeding, you'd get reaction bites.  I have yet to hook a large king in the creeks doing this, but have had them follow my streamer back, indicating that it may be possible for them to hit some day.  It keeps my interest at least.

[Dark Cloud]

  WOW  THANKS  GUYS   FOR  STRIGHTENING  ME  OUT !!!!   I  WAS  GOING  TO LISTEN  TO  THESE  KNUCKLEHEADS    

Dude, You cant take your tunnel vision glasses off for one second?
I dont think they feed, eat, hit, ect.... and in the grand scheme of things I could care less!!!
All I was saying is that a fish - If all it did from birth-4 years was eat and avoid being eaten - it will continue to mouth things under the right circumstances - those circumstances do not include running the gauntlet of the river or being stood over and ripped at in a little creek...
You think that every fish not cought on one of your flies was lined. Relax, take a breath, open your mind...

Here's a good quote from a good movie - Men in Black - "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow"

I learned something today - apparently if it shows up on a Google search, it must be a fact...  

I learned something a long time ago - "question everything"!!!
If the Lord JC told me salmon bite, I would give him the stinkeye...  

[Fat Boy]

  I think they were maryland plates too..or maybe virginia, they were white like new york.

Man, Snagger, I wish I was up there fishing!!!  I don't have vanity plates...thought about it, but I'd rather spend the money on fishing tackle, LOL.

[SNAGGER]

  Well I thought of you when I seen them...kind of an off the wall spot too...I'm not getting involved in this debate.

[Dark Cloud]

 I'm not getting involved in this debate.

Im sitting here mad at myself for getting involved, next time I see ya, you have my permission to slap me...
Im off to the wall...

[trapper2000]

Dude, You cant take your tunnel vision glasses off for one second?
I dont think they feed, eat, hit, ect.... and in the grand scheme of things I could care less!!!
All I was saying is that a fish - If all it did from birth-4 years was eat and avoid being eaten - it will continue to mouth things under the right circumstances - those circumstances do not include running the gauntlet of the river or being stood over and ripped at in a little creek...
You think that every fish not cought on one of your flies was lined. Relax, take a breath, open your mind...

Here's a good quote from a good movie - Men in Black - "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow"

I learned something today - apparently if it shows up on a Google search, it must be a fact...  

I learned something a long time ago - "question everything"!!!
If the Lord JC told me salmon bite, I would give him the stinkeye...  

no  dark  cloud  ya  don't  get  it  ...  i  don't  think  they  hit   so  why pertend ?  thats  my  opinion  and  the  opinion  of  a  lot  of  people  , including  the  state  of   new  your  for  years  ....  i'm  just  being honest  about  it  ....  would  you  feel  better  if  i lied ?   "salmon  hit   for  dark  cloud    along  with  cigarette  addicted  trout "

[Dark Cloud]

Ok, I dont think they hit, you dont think they hit... got it...

But, lets say 45,723 salmon come into the river... Is it possible that one of them grab something with thier mouth?
One simple question...

p.s. - Please dont tell me I dont get it. I have wide vision and dont wear mental blinders...

[Fat Boy]

Trapper, you like the challenge of fishing, right?  My guess is that you do.  And you said that you believe that a lot of fish on lures are because the lure drifts into their mouth, and I also agree that does happen probably the vast majority of the time.  But, what if you tried to get them to chase the lure?  That's what I'm talking about.  Casting downstream, and stripping up stream, or working a spinner up current, and try and get the fish to chase the lure.  You will find that once in a rare while, the fish will chase and hit, who knows why, but they might.  Wouldn't that fish be worth the effort?  That's my experience, take it or leave it, and it's my challenge to you.  I'd bet that your fishing talent, and I'd venture to say that you have that, will be able to draw a strike.  Why not try?

Some day I'll be up there (although I much prefer the steelhead bite because it's much better action), and I'd like to fish with you...maybe by then you'll be strippin streamers like me, LOL, or maybe not.  But who cares, it's fishin'!

[fishgalore]

I respect both sides of the issue but have my own opinion on the matter. Here's how I see it. It's not an either or position, but rather, a both and!!! Say what? You can argue from the opinions listed by trapper that they don't bite and sort of be correct. Or you can argue as others do that they do bite, ie they hit the presentation. I saw a vid on SC today where a large king had nearly swallowed the hook. The point of the video was that it attacked the offer. Do they feed? Probably not, but I'm not yet convinced they don't. Questions like at what point do salmon know to stop feeding? Is it the DSR? Ball Park? Sportsmans? etc, etc, ad infinitum are valid ones. Also do they all just stop at the same time, ie hundreds of thousands, or does it vary from one fish to another? A blanket statement from Fish & Wildlife Anywhere USA is NOT proof positive that they do not attack. Instinct is instinct and that's a huge factor IMO. If you choose to believe they don't bite, fine by me, but don't attack others who have looked at empirical evidence that just might suggest otherwise. If it were not true then we wouldn't be having this debate. I'd also bet that F & W would concur that they behave aggressively. If they believe they don't bite whatsoever that would be proof enough to write everyone fishing a ticket for lifting. Cause if they don't bite then everyone has to be lifting, snagging, lining, whatever you want to call it. That's my common sense approach but maybe I'm wrong even though the evidence suggests otherwise.


Interpretation is the point here. There is some wiggle room here. What do they mean when they say they don't feed? As I noted above, specifics are not given only vague generalities. Presbyterians, Catholics, Methodists, etc.....are a good example of how interpretive issues get resolved. You find your clique and fit in.............end of story.

[Dr. IceGeek]

I argued last year with trapper over a leader issue...he won...I lost. I gave up and let him think he was right because clearly he was not capable of understanding what I was trying to present.  Copied/pasted sections direct from the regs...highlighted in red and still he argued with me...  I honestly don't think in his mind he has ever been wrong.  Good luck trying to get him to see it your way....it's a waste of time.   

[SNAGGER]

Im sitting here mad at myself for getting involved, next time I see ya, you have my permission to slap me...
Im off to the wall...

  Call me what you want.. I like hooking 80 fish a day, been doing it since I was taught by the old timers of the time 33 years ago..martin and mono on a fly rod...r r r r rope a dope..... it's fun and I have a good time, that's all that matters to me.. I try not to judge others on how they fish, do what you want, it don't matter to me.

[trapper2000]

Trapper, you like the challenge of fishing, right?  My guess is that you do.  And you said that you believe that a lot of fish on lures are because the lure drifts into their mouth, and I also agree that does happen probably the vast majority of the time.  But, what if you tried to get them to chase the lure?  That's what I'm talking about.  Casting downstream, and stripping up stream, or working a spinner up current, and try and get the fish to chase the lure.  You will find that once in a rare while, the fish will chase and hit, who knows why, but they might.  Wouldn't that fish be worth the effort?  That's my experience, take it or leave it, and it's my challenge to you.  I'd bet that your fishing talent, and I'd venture to say that you have that, will be able to draw a strike.  Why not try?

Some day I'll be up there (although I much prefer the steelhead bite because it's much better action), and I'd like to fish with you...maybe by then you'll be strippin streamers like me, LOL, or maybe not.  But who cares, it's fishin'!

      the  fishes   stomach   shrinks has  nothing  to  do  with   comeing  up  the  river   has to  do  with  spawning,  reason  for  this  is    to  give the   fish more  room  for  eggs  and  sperm ...  this  is   biological and  happens  in the  lake  before  the  fish  even  enters  the  river ...  the  challenge  now  is  to  catch  a  fish that  isn't feeding ... because  truth  it  doesn't  because  it  can't feed! we  are  nowgiven  a  choice    try  for  a  aggression  hit ? thats  slim, or    use  the  natural  habits  and  biological  factors.    the   fish  can not   keep  it's  mouth  closed  !   it  must  face  upstream  it  lays   close  to  the  bottom  ....  drift  a  fly  ...bang  ...is  it  fishing     yes    it  is  ... i  could  lie  and  say  it hit    the  fly  is  buried   down  it's  throat ...i   could  say  it   hit  out  of  aggression  after  all  a  30 lb  fish    turning  when it   sences  that  line  feels  like a  hit   taking  the  rod  out  of  your  hand ....but  that  would  be  a  lie    i  drifted  the  fly in  the  fishes  mouth   plain  simple  honesty ....is  it  wrong ,i  don't  see  why  it  would  be ....

steelhead  and  browns  i  feel  awhole  lot  differently  

now  if  you    decide  to  fish  the  river  differently    no problem  whats  so  ever  and  i'll  stil  over  you  a  coffee  or  a  fish  to  take  home  

and  fatboy   i  went   the   route   you  are    for  awhile   just  after  40  years  of    salmon  fishing  i'm like  snagger  i  want  to  have  fun ... you  want  a  real  hit   you  got  to  troll  the  big  lake  just  my  opinion

fishgalore and   fatboy  your  both   good   people    weather  we  agree  or  not  that  cup of  coffee  is a  real offer  anytime 

[Fat Boy]

It's OK Doc, I like a good debate.  There's a point in any debate that I can't add anything more without duplicating my efforts, and I think that I'm already there.

I respect everyone's opinion, and they developed that opinion based on their actual experiences, and their friends, and what they've read or seen, and it's their right to have that opinion.  I can't change that, nor should I try, and I won't.  I've made my points, and I'm truthful 100%, and anyone that knows me and fishes with me knows that I shoot straight in my claims.  That's all I can do.

[Fat Boy]

I try not to judge others on how they fish, do what you want, it don't matter to me.

Same here!

[outdoorsman]

Trapper first says that they don't feed.  I believe this to be true.  He then changes it up and says they don't ever hit!  I believe he is confused...there is a difference there.  Pacific salmon do not feed while in the rivers, but on occasion they will strike out of aggression, especially if a bright lure or fly is pulled parallel to the fish and quickly moved past it's head (from behind the fish).  They will snap at it, not to eat it, but just out of aggression.  It is a pretty common method that is used for Pacific salmon that actually run out of the Pacific.  

As for snagging...that is illegal.  Yes, the fish die after spawning, and it is a manmade fishery, so people tend to think that they can abuse it without much repercussion (with is probably true, since it probably does no real harm to the fishery).  But think about what would happen if the State decided to change the fishery to Atlantic Salmon instead, lets say to try and restore a native species???  There would still be snagging during an Atlantic salmon run, even though Atlantic salmon do not die after spawning.  People are just greedy and want their big fish.  I have seen that happen with landlocks in the Finger Lakes tributaries, and have called people in to the wardens.  What would some of you pro-snagging folks say then?  I think that snagging the Pacific salmon sets a bad precedent for other lake-run fisheries in the area.  People snag salmon there, and they then think that they can also snag landlocks, browns, and rainbows elsewhere.