MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => New Hampshire => Topic started by: wshniwsfshn on Jul 15, 2017, 03:09 PM
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Anybody ever try the portable ones that clamp on to the side wall of a 14 ft aluminum I'm looking at the Scotty one and what size weight thanks
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Wshniwsfshn, I use a cannon clamp-on downrigger with my 17 ft Grumman canoe with a trolling motor. It works pretty well but I have to say if I was to do it over I'd probably go scotty. My buddy has a solid mount on his kayak (the actual reel and arm I believe are identical to the clamp version) and it seems to be more rugged overall than mine. In either case I don't think they'd hold up well to a heavier ball than the recommended 4lber but at speeds between 1.2-2.0mph (I tend to target lakers) I've run it down 70 ft with no issue. Depending on your fish finder you may have trouble tracking your ball at that angle but my striker 4 does pretty well.
Hope this was helpful.
Cheers,
Keith
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I would go with a cannon easy troll with a line counter and a 8 or 10 pound finned down rigger ball .. if pushing real deep maybe even a 12 pound ball.. they sell a mount for the side rails for around 50to60 dollars ... any how the mini troll by cannon and I think the lake troll by scotty don't have a line counter so it's will be hard to reset same depth every time.. just for that reason I would go with the easy troll .. caus e it's controlled depth fishing.. that way you don't by a 80 dollar down rigger then go by a 200 after you figured the 80 won't cut it unless your fishing shallow lakes thd the lake troll will be fine...
you could even try a mouching rig and rod it if you think it'd easier a 2 pound two ear or a one ear canon ball on a 3 wsy rig and a mooching rod rigid up with a line counter reel is a pour man's down rigger all you need is a rod holder and try to keep the ball at a 90 to the water surfce .. look up videos mooching for salmon if intrested .. in mouthing that might be a cheaper alternative to a down rigger buying a $30 okuma mouching rod ?? And pairing it with a line counter reel and heavy line like 40 to 80 lb test depending on weight used and depth fished then the rest is cannon balls, leader and favorite lures we ran them on a three way rig and we're able to switch the weight for a heavylier weight when depth or speed varied.. basically a mini down rigger set up.. we have run dodgers& flies ,spoons, squids ,jay plugs, meat ,etc.. etc..on the mouchung rod rigs any how best of luck..
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A lot of guys were using dipsey diver rods to do the mooching cause they will handie it.. 40 or 50 pound braid and a 5 to 8 ounce cannon ball on a three way with you lure off the three way and you main line all attach at the three way.. then all you need to do is put it in a rod holder and troll real slow 2.2 mph to 3.3mph for salmon. The okuma classic pro or classic pro glt cost about $30 for s rod. And the high end is gloomis at $350+ this way you don't have to sink $160 to $400 plus in to riggers and plus reels and rods but up to you ..
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For a 14' aluminum, I'd go with the Cannon uni, easy or lake troll or Scotty depthmaster.
I have Scotty 1116 pro packs (electric) for a bigger boat and a much smaller Scotty for a canoe.
IMO, Scotty's are the best electric.
I would steer clear of the clamp on's, especially if romancing the bottom for lakers.
Riggers without depth counters generally rely on amount of turns to determine depth.
Regardless of turns or counters, they're best at duplicating depths not exact depths.
Like I believe boondox said, you want your cable as close to 90 degrees from the rigger end as possible. Depth, speed and drag (think flashers) all determine how heavy your ball needs to be. A 4# ball will only be efficient very high in the water column. A 6# ball doesn't get you much deeper. I start with 8# balls and progress to 12's the deeper I troll.
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Seahunt and boondox are absolutely right and if possible I would try to upgrade from the riggers you are considering. Eventually I will be also but I couldn't afford to myself this year (I spend too much for the mrs. already during ice season ::) ). The dial counter on my mini troll is useless and I have to rely on my finder to determine my set depth. I do catch fish, unfortunately I do have to be careful not to drag bottom and that often results in more salmon than I'd like but you can make it work. Boondox mentioned divers and a friend has had luck with the Davis instruments fish seeker an adjustable alternative. This my first season trolling and it was the folks on this site that helped me get on fish (if memory serves seahunt was one of them) so I'd take their advice and run with it.
Cheers
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Thanks guys
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Anyone have any pics of your set up thanks
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Anybody ever try the portable ones that clamp on to the side wall of a 14 ft aluminum I'm looking at the Scotty one and what size weight thanks
need a photo of your boat stern to make practical recommendations ?
Dick
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I would steer clear of the clamp on's, especially if romancing the bottom for lakers.
sound advice
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Anyone have any pics of your set up thanks
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoIizMPt.jpg&hash=7f1194d934819c53300690c09860f8a1)
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fh7kpKdf.jpg&hash=1f070bc706265e3fe95a2536a6c05284)
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Dick I don't have photobucket but it's a 14 ft Starcraft 25 hp tiller with a split bench in the middle thanks
Attack that's a very nice set up
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Dick I don't have photobucket but it's a 14 ft Starcraft 25 hp tiller with a split bench in the middle thanks
Attack that's a very nice set up
If you use a solid mount, your corners in the stern may be the best place to mount the riggers.
You would want to use a backer board like azak, composite decking or similar to reinforce the corners.
It's pretty common to mount riggers on a pt or aluminum plank like attack has them. Great set up, but doubt you'd have room on a 14'er. Before you try it, make sure you'll have both enough room in your cock pit and still be able to trim your motor up.
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This is a boat I had for 10 years and sold last fall.
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi192.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz195%2Ffishrod1%2FBIP%2520crew%2520on%2520the%2520Seahunt_zpsqkj48q4l.jpg&hash=0b39fb064b5b1e7188fd9203d17d1ddf)
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If you use a solid mount, your corners in the stern may be the best place to mount the riggers.
You would want to use a backer board like azak, composite decking or similar to reinforce the corners.
more good info
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This is a boat I had for 10 years and sold last fall.
Love center consoles.
Lots of fishing room.
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I bought the cannon one and mounted in on the back of my aluminum rowboat. I had never used one before so it was kind of a disaster and a bad place to position it (leaning off the stern that was already weighed down with motor etc. The line counter didn't really work well and controlling the drop took some work. the cable also slipped off the track at the arm in bumpy water and I had to cut and rethread the cable.
Not sure if it was design or user error. I have a bigger boat now and I will give it another try now that I have experience with a mounted one.
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Love center consoles.
Lots of fishing room.
Agree, Attack. :)
I bought the cannon one and mounted in on the back of my aluminum rowboat. I had never used one before so it was kind of a disaster and a bad place to position it (leaning off the stern that was already weighed down with motor etc. The line counter didn't really work well and controlling the drop took some work. the cable also slipped off the track at the arm in bumpy water and I had to cut and rethread the cable.
Not sure if it was design or user error. I have a bigger boat now and I will give it another try now that I have experience with a mounted one.
Riggers pretty much need to be mounted in the aft or back quarter of the boat to avoid getting your cable in your prop on turns.Controlling speed of drop with manuals is just a matter of experience. Canons are infamous for sliding off the pulley. There's too much room between the pulley and the sides. No idea why they don't fix that. That will never happen with a Scotty. That being said, it's highly unlikely that the cable came off due to bumpy water. Most likely, it was due to slack cable when deploying or changing lures.
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seahunt what about putting it about a foot up from the stern on the side would that work my whole thing about this thread is I'm on vacation in 2 weeks on winni and I would like to get out and fish some coves in the early morning off by 9 ish thanks
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seahunt what about putting it about a foot up from the stern on the side would that work my whole thing about this thread is I'm on vacation in 2 weeks on winni and I would like to get out and fish some coves in the early morning off by 9 ish thanks
A foot up from the stern will absolutely work. It may even be more efficient to work your riggers from that position.
Every boat can use a different set up based on it's design.
I suggested the back corner based on solid mounting options of a typical 14' aluminum.
If you can securely mount your rigger (s) a foot from the stern and operate them comfortably, absolutely, go for it.
If you have a swivel mount, I'd run the riggers 45 or 90 degrees off the stern to avoid getting your cable in the prop.
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Anybody ever try the portable ones that clamp on to the side wall of a 14 ft aluminum I'm looking at the Scotty one and what size weight thanks
Again?? Need to see a photo of your boat stern, maybe make and model of boat. Regardless of what anyone says a portable rigger should
lift no more than a 6 pound ball? Hand crank a 8- 12 lb. ball many times and you will agree! Drift back at 2MPH is not too much to
compensate for? Some day they will have a 6 lb. pancake rigger ball that will cure the problem?
Dick
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(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoIizMPt.jpg&hash=7f1194d934819c53300690c09860f8a1)
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fh7kpKdf.jpg&hash=1f070bc706265e3fe95a2536a6c05284)
beautiful boat! I am starting to deck out my 16' lund SS Alaskan. Just installed Bimini and now I'm moving downrigger to keep it out of the way of it
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A foot up from the stern will absolutely work. It may even be more efficient to work your riggers from that position.
Every boat can use a different set up based on it's design.
I suggested the back corner based on solid mounting options of a typical 14' aluminum.
If you can securely mount your rigger (s) a foot from the stern and operate them comfortably, absolutely, go for it.
If you have a swivel mount, I'd run the riggers 45 or 90 degrees off the stern to avoid getting your cable in the prop.
This is good to know; the only spot I could find to mount my portable on the Lund is on the stern facing straight out. wasn't thinking about cable movement on the turns! I guess I can just stack two lines on my permanent one.
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This is good to know; the only spot I could find to mount my portable on the Lund is on the stern facing straight out. wasn't thinking about cable movement on the turns! I guess I can just stack two lines on my permanent one.
If you have a swivel mount, I'd run the riggers 45 or 90 degrees off the stern to avoid getting your cable in the prop.
Regardless of how you interpreted my above quote, I said it wrong.
I should have said 45, (back towards the stern) or 90 degrees off the gunnels.
A lot of manual riggers have short booms. The longer booms are safer to troll straight back off the stern.
Even with those, I prefer to swivel at an angle or 90 degrees to the gunnel. They're easier/safer to operate off the sides and open up the "chute" for fighting and landing fish.
Don't know what kind of manual or mount you have on your portable? If possible you may be able to fabricate a swivel mount using other brands of swivel mounts. I've done that.
Actually, in my boat pic above, there are 6" swivel mount pedestals under those riggers. I retro fitted my Scotty's to fit the pedestals because the original Scotty swivel bases made them higher than I wanted on the preexisting pedestals.
Stacking definitely works but it's time consuming (lines out of the water) especially with manuals.
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Stacking definitely works but it's time consuming (lines out of the water) especially with manuals.
Yup.
Did it for years.
No more.
Not worth the hassle IMHO.
I will however pin a slider 10' up sometimes if I'm running the weights deep.
I've run downriggers since the late 70's.
All Cannons.
Probably owned 2 dozen of them over the years.
My 24' Trophy has 6 on it back in the 90's. All electric.
And I have never had the cable jump off the end pulley on the arm.
But I suppose it could happen.
Dick - I crank 8# weights on mine all the time.
Run them pretty much on the bottom for eyes in 60-125 FOW.
Not as easy like my electrics in the past, but I do it.
I will never run less than 8# balls.
That is, unless I limit to maybe 35-40' down.
Again, that's just me.
Mac
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seahunt what about putting it about a foot up from the stern on the side would that work my whole thing about this thread is I'm on vacation in 2 weeks on winni and I would like to get out and fish some coves in the early morning off by 9 ish thanks
Sure will work putting it a foot forward or even three .. if you can I would go with this clamp base link below and a I think it was the uni troll or easy troll down riggers I have the uni troll on my nymph just from experience with the lake troll and mini troll there a pain in the rump to use then trying to rember were you set them is way more of a pain..
like if you got riggers out and all you got to do is look at the dial on uni troll to see the depth were the other two is a problem as heading into shallow when the shallow alarm comes in to play and you have to rember wich to raise first. And fast!..
also say this mount cause some boats don't have the corners like our seanymph with the grab handles in the stern cornerd some boats don't have corner pads big enough.. but do have grab handles.. and being a tiller boat you can't run a board side to side like on other boats. With a side or center consel.. These rigger mounts at link below are easy to use but have a lot to be desired .. I would rather drill three holes in my corner pad like we did then pay $80 but the choice really is yours ..
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cannon-Clamp-Mount/699954.uts?productVariantId=1184278&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=00736000&rid=20&gclid=CjwKCAjw47bLBRBkEiwABh-PkS71QehPVWFzLAV78Lnj7E0bOgCrAIC7cRNFiaUi5g19NY5yx_H-ExoCX2EQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cannon-Clamp-Mount/699954.uts?productVariantId=1184278&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=00736000&rid=20&gclid=CjwKCAjw47bLBRBkEiwABh-PkS71QehPVWFzLAV78Lnj7E0bOgCrAIC7cRNFiaUi5g19NY5yx_H-ExoCX2EQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
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This canon is better then the scotty for a little bit more there bolth named lake troll but different brands so pay attention to why we say what we said ones junk the other pretty good for very little more.. like 80 vs. 150 for the price also got to remember with a spool full of wire one foot id like 1.5 foot when spool is full an one foot when empty.. cause you got wire on spool taking up room.. any how I hot a list of down riggers be low that I would by every one has different features but all have line counters for depth set..
Cannon lake troll :
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-lake-troll-downrigger/738094.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-lake-troll-downrigger/738094.uts)
Scotty lake troller:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/scotty-portable-lake-troller/700238.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/scotty-portable-lake-troller/700238.uts)
Couple good riggers that are lower priced..recommended by me..
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/walker-downriggers-lake-ranger-manual-downrigger/737305.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/walker-downriggers-lake-ranger-manual-downrigger/737305.uts)
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-lake-troll-downrigger/738094.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-lake-troll-downrigger/738094.uts)
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/scotty-depthmaster-manual-downrigger/1572797.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/scotty-depthmaster-manual-downrigger/1572797.uts)
http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-easi-troll-trade-st-downrigger/1571741.uts (http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/trolling-gear/downriggers%7C/pc/104794380/c/104784480/sc/104306580/cannon-easi-troll-trade-st-downrigger/1571741.uts)
By the way If you got a cabelas by you they just gave $20 off of $100 so that $150 becomes $130 which sweetens the deal if you don't got the coupon let me know i may have to fax email or some thing to get it to you.. lol's
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There may be a simple answer to this, but what does the angle/blowback matter if you're able to control the speed and depth of the lure? Sure a 4lb ball do this at deeper depths, and you will need to let out more cable to get down there, but if you use your fishfinder or estimate depth, what is the problem? Still learning downriggers here.
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There may be a simple answer to this, but what does the angle/blowback matter if you're able to control the speed and depth of the lure? Sure a 4lb ball do this at deeper depths, and you will need to let out more cable to get down there, but if you use your fishfinder or estimate depth, what is the problem? Still learning downriggers here.
Not too sure how you're going to control your rigger (release) depth unless you're pretty sharp with angles and just as sharp with geometry?
Just me, but I don't want troll the southern end of Rattlesnake while my rigger balls are halfway to Alton Bay.
It would take a pretty fancy fishfinder to mark a 4# ball trolling 50' + deep at 2+ mph sog.
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Not too sure how you're going to control your rigger (release) depth unless you're pretty sharp with angles and just as sharp with geometry?
Just me, but I don't want troll the southern end of Rattlesnake while my rigger balls are halfway to Alton Bay.
It would take a pretty fancy fishfinder to mark a 4# ball trolling 50' + deep at 2+ mph sog.
good points all around. I am pretty d**n good with angles I'll post my GRE results lol.
I thought I remember seeing a chart that estimates true depth based on angle, speed, and size of weight. could be wrong. I'll just use my 4 pounder for the salmon still at 30'
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good points all around. I am pretty d**n good with angles I'll post my GRE results lol.
I thought I remember seeing a chart that estimates true depth based on angle, speed, and size of weight. could be wrong. I'll just use my 4 pounder for the salmon still at 30'
Not sure about the chart?
Think you'll find that speed, weight and resistance/drag against ball, think flashers, current, etc..) determine the blow back angle.
Good luck, regardless.
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Won't be much blow back, and up, if the ball is only 30' down.
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Won't be much blow back, and up, if the ball is only 30' down.
Mac, usually you and I are on the same page. ;)
I've only used a 4# ball on a rigger rowing a canoe around 1.2-1.4 sog.
Many years ago I tried some 6# balls down to 30'. I quickly went to 8# +.
That being said, I almost always have both vertical and horizontal flashers on the bigger boats. Adds a lot of resistance.
I respect how you great lake guys fish and follow suit when on Lake O.
In a lot of ways, we fish different than you guys. Some of it's a regional thing. Some of it's due to our bait fish and smaller tail fins on the predators.
One example is NH does not allow cheaters.
Porkiepiehat is reportedly good on angles. 8)
Maybe he'll share the angle of his cable with a 4# ball down 30' at 2+ mph sog?
If he gives me an exact angle and measure of cable out, I'll do the math. :)
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Mac, usually you and I are on the same page. ;)
I've only used a 4# ball on a rigger rowing a canoe around 1.2-1.4 sog.
Many years ago I tried some 6# balls down to 30'. I quickly went to 8# +.
That being said, I almost always have both vertical and horizontal flashers on the bigger boats. Adds a lot of resistance.
I'm with you.
Never will use less than 8#
And won't go more than that when using a manual for obvious reasons. ;D
But he said he had 4# and only went 30' deep at most.
Let's say his angle is 30 degrees.
His blow back at 30' of cable out is like 14' but more importantly, his ball is now only about 20' down.
Big deal here is approximating the angle of the cable when it blows back.
With only 4# the blow back will be more than with a 10# weight of course.
And speed plays a factor as well as the other things you mentioned (added resistance).
Here's some info -
http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/tips/downrigger_depth.htm (http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/tips/downrigger_depth.htm)
And Cannon has some blowback charts in this manual -
http://store.cannondownriggers.com/media/document/3397130MagnumWEB.pdf (http://store.cannondownriggers.com/media/document/3397130MagnumWEB.pdf)
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??? Ok! you fellows have over thought this blow back way too much. After 20 years of dragging 4lb to 6 lb. rigger balls I've found that @ mph trolling speed the concept of a 30 degree blow back is excessive? With 40 years experience as a land surveyor I've always been able to guestimate the angle of the cable and estimate actual ball depth even pulling 4 ft. of Dave Davis spinners? I will have to admit that I will never drag bottom for lakers or eyes in 100 feet of water. Once the thermocline drops below 50 feet I'm off to shore casting for bass and pike or walleye in the Conn. river with water no deeper than 40 ft. Horizontal flashers , at the ball, will bring fish up a long way so 5 ft. more or less isn't important as long as you think your above the marked fish?
But! a big advantage of a heavy rigger ball is a better hook set because the release is connected to a heavier mass!
Now! If someone could provide a 6 lb. pancake ball I would argue that all of you are wrong?
Dick
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??? ::) I can't believe I actually disagreed with Attack?? He has always seemed my Jeti Master!
Dick
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Dick
My numbers were fine
And I almost posted this earlier
I believe that a 30 degree blow back is inreal.
This, changes everything.
Lol
In the end, drop the ball and bait
Experiment at different depths
When you start catching fish at a specific depth......repeat what you were doing, where you were doing it.
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Just a thought but rather than try to calc blowback would it not be easier to up the gain on the finder to see exactly where the ball is? Might not work for everyone depending on setups but seems logical.
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Iowaaccord66, that is exactly what I've done to find depth. With my mini I wouldn't trust the arm to handle much more than a 4lb ball. Even with 30 (ish) degree blowback I can usually see my ball as deep as 70 ft at 2+mph with my gain on high. Often I can even see the bait show just slightly below the ball.
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Just a thought but rather than try to calc blowback would it not be easier to up the gain on the finder to see exactly where the ball is? Might not work for everyone depending on setups but seems logical.
As things move out from directly below the transducer, like fish on the edge of the cone, they are shown deeper than they actually are.
Same thing would happen with a ball.
Now......lets' say you got 30' of cable out, and the blowback angle is 30 degrees, and the ball is actually down 20', will the depthfinder show it as 30' down???
Hmmmmm...............................more fodder.
;D
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Dick
My numbers were fine
And I almost posted this earlier
I believe that a 30 degree blow back is inreal.
This, changes everything.
Lol
In the end, drop the ball and bait
Experiment at different depths
When you start catching fish at a specific depth......repeat what you were doing, where you were doing it.
Exactly, Mac.
Iowaaccord66, that is exactly what I've done to find depth. With my mini I wouldn't trust the arm to handle much more than a 4lb ball. Even with 30 (ish) degree blowback I can usually see my ball as deep as 70 ft at 2+mph with my gain on high. Often I can even see the bait show just slightly below the ball.
4# ball, 70' deep, trolling 2+ SOG, 30'ish degree angle? SMH. ::)
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4# ball, 70' deep, trolling 2+ SOG, 30'ish degree angle? SMH. ::)
Would need a cone angle of at least 60 degrees.
Nope!
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Ah we are now getting in the weeds. Dont forget Mac if you have humminbird 360 scan or Garmin Panoptics there would be little chance of not marking the ball.
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Considering my transducer is directly in line with my downrigger (I have it suction cupped to the bottom of my canoe) it would not require 60 degrees it would require a maximum of 30 if I had gotten out my protractor and actually measured the cable angle rather than just thrown out a ballpark figure. Ill get an exact figure next time ;)
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Anybody ever try the portable ones that clamp on to the side wall of a 14 ft aluminum I'm looking at the Scotty one and what size weight thanks
Back to the original thread? The 14 ft starcraft is a nice boat. I would hate to mangle its gunnel with a clam on rigger?? Most important information is whether you will be trolling below 50 ft. very often? When I'm fishing solo I prefer to drag two lead core rigs rather than playing with my down riggers! The concept of bouncing bottom with a 8lb+ ball in 100 feet of water seems like a big gunnel risk if you get hung up??
Dick
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Im with you Dick in that I run 2 LC setups alone as well. I haven't added riggers yet.
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I didn't read through all of this engineering or angle stuff. Frankly when all is said and done, more is said than done. Also didn't see a picture of your boat. Do you have oarlocks on the gunwale of the boat?
If so, slap a 2x6 or 2x8 board down, drill some holes, put a bolt/nut through the board and oarlock, add a downrigger mount and go fishing. Take it off when done.
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Ah we are now getting in the weeds. Dont forget Mac if you have humminbird 360 scan or Garmin Panoptics there would be little chance of not marking the ball.
Boom!
I stand corrected
Slight brain fart there
Thanks
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Iowaaccord66, that is exactly what I've done to find depth. With my mini I wouldn't trust the arm to handle much more than a 4lb ball. Even with 30 (ish) degree blowback I can usually see my ball as deep as 70 ft at 2+mph with my gain on high. Often I can even see the bait show just slightly below the ball.
Do you know the cone angle of your transducer?
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Evan an mid priced Lowrance offers a 60 degree cone angle?
Dick
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Do you know the cone angle of your transducer?
15 or 45 degrees though I usually split screen and run both.
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I have seen a couple 50kHz transducers approach 45 degrees but never seen anything higher.
Not saying there isn't any.
Just saying I have never seen it.
Larger degree transducers are normally associated with 50kHz.
And lower frequency is used for deeper water as it can penetrate deeper than higher frequencies..
Lots of stuff on the web about all this.
Here's a good article that explains it -
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/selecting-transducer.asp (http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/selecting-transducer.asp)
The deeper you go, and the wider the cone, the more bottom you are looking at.
But your resolution suffers.
Also not a good thing when you see fish that might be 20' off to the side of the boat, but don't know if they are below you, off to the side, or even which side.
Side scan is a huge benefit here obviously.
I've seen some 200 kHz transducers approach 25 degrees and most at 20 degrees.
My 83/200 is 32/18
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Evan an mid priced Lowrance offers a 60 degree cone angle?
Dick
Dick, never can tell whether you're asking or stating with your common misuse of question marks??? ;)
Most ducers run a 30-45 degree cone.
If you can show me some mid priced Lowrances with 60 degree cone angles, please post them. I haven't shopped for them in a while.
The op was asking about manual riggers on a 14' aluminum. That pretty much ruled out Humminbird 360 scans or Garmin Panoptics as options for me.
Keep in mind that when you turn up your sensitivity/gain your "gaining" a lot of clutter. That would be very frustrating for me.
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I have seen a couple 50kHz transducers approach 45 degrees but never seen anything higher.
Not saying there isn't any.
Just saying I have never seen it.
Larger degree transducers are normally associated with 50kHz.
And lower frequency is used for deeper water as it can penetrate deeper than higher frequencies..
Lots of stuff on the web about all this.
Here's a good article that explains it -
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/selecting-transducer.asp (http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/selecting-transducer.asp)
The deeper you go, and the wider the cone, the more bottom you are looking at.
But your resolution suffers.
Also not a good thing when you see fish that might be 20' off to the side of the boat, but don't know if they are below you, off to the side, or even which side.
Side scan is a huge benefit here obviously.
I've seen some 200 kHz transducers approach 25 degrees and most at 20 degrees.
My 83/200 is 32/18
All good info, Mac.
I was doing something else when you posted and we kinda crossed paths. ;)
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Yeah the striker 4 came with a 77/200 khz that runs at 45/15. It definitely has its limitations but for a year round portable It has served me well. The real time a-scope option is nice for open water jigging as well.
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Iowaaccord66, that is exactly what I've done to find depth. With my mini I wouldn't trust the arm to handle much more than a 4lb ball. Even with 30 (ish) degree blowback I can usually see my ball as deep as 70 ft at 2+mph with my gain on high. Often I can even see the bait show just slightly below the ball.
15 or 45 degrees though I usually split screen and run both.
http://www.furunousa.com/LearningCenter/Transducer-Beam-Angle-Calculator.aspx (http://www.furunousa.com/LearningCenter/Transducer-Beam-Angle-Calculator.aspx)
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Do you know the cone angle of your transducer?
Cone angle depends on a million variables that I am certain I dont understand and probably most don't understand. Cone angle also varies for me because I have a dual beam ducer. 77/200. Also angle may differ based on the position of the ducer itself. Guys who think sonar shoots out a perfect cone at a perfect set angle are rather dillusional or just really want to be right?
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Cone angle depends on a million variables that I am certain I dont understand and probably most don't understand. Cone angle also varies for me because I have a dual beam ducer. 77/200. Also angle may differ based on the position of the ducer itself. Guys who think sonar shoots out a perfect cone at a perfect set angle are rather dillusional or just really want to be right?
I don't pretend to be a technological expert of ducers.
Your 77/200 khz ducer refers to frequency, not angle.
Regarding "perfect cone"? I assume you're talking about the actual mushroom shape?
Re: position of the ducer, 90 degrees to the stern is what you're after. Obviously, your depth reading will be inaccurate other wise.
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http://www.furunousa.com/LearningCenter/Transducer-Beam-Angle-Calculator.aspx (http://www.furunousa.com/LearningCenter/Transducer-Beam-Angle-Calculator.aspx)
Cool!
45 degrees in 100 FOW = 83' diameter circle.
:cookoo:
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I don't pretend to be a technological expert of ducers.
Your 77/200 khz ducer refers to frequency, not angle.
Regarding "perfect cone"? I assume you're talking about the actual mushroom shape?
Re: position of the ducer, 90 degrees to the stern is what you're after. Obviously, your depth reading will be inaccurate other wise.
yup
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I found that chart about angles and true depth in my bookmarks:
http://thescientificfisherman.com/true-downrigger-depth/
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http://thescientificfisherman.com/true-downrigger-depth/ (http://thescientificfisherman.com/true-downrigger-depth/)
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Nice chart I like it!! that's why they say to keep the rigger cabelas as close to 90* to water surface as posible.. this chart is why 40* plus is there cause the world is not perfect lol's ...
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I don't pretend to be a technological expert of ducers.
Your 77/200 khz ducer refers to frequency, not angle.
Regarding "perfect cone"? I assume you're talking about the actual mushroom shape?
Re: position of the ducer, 90 degrees to the stern is what you're after. Obviously, your depth reading will be inaccurate other wise.
Read link and you'll understand my comment about frequency vs. Cone angle....all will learn and we will all be smarter and out of the weeds!
http://www.thetechnologicalangler.com/sonar.html (http://www.thetechnologicalangler.com/sonar.html)
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Funny I kept thinking my line popped out of the release because the line was at such a different angle and the bend kept disappearing even after I tightened it. but when I stood up and reeled in a bunch of line I realized a ton of it was just bowing out. When I tried to pull the line free I couldn't eventually the line snapped because it had wrapped around the cable too.
Still learning! I hope the Chamberlain releases make a different here.
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Funny I kept thinking my line popped out of the release because the line was at such a different angle and the bend kept disappearing even after I tightened it. but when I stood up and reeled in a bunch of line I realized a ton of it was just bowing out. When I tried to pull the line free I couldn't eventually the line snapped because it had wrapped around the cable too.
Still learning! I hope the Chamberlain releases make a different here.
Nope
You are clipping the line in the release incorrectly.
Your line is slipping thru the release until your lure is wedged up tight to the clip.
It then won't release and you yank hard enough and SNAP!
Make a loop with the line, then twist it a few times.
Then clip the release in the twist.
This assumes you are using pinch pad style releases.
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On the twost
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Also try rubber bands thin ones!! Instead of the release..
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Video on rubber bands
Might need a custom rigger clip.
https://youtu.be/1WVovnXLLm4 (https://youtu.be/1WVovnXLLm4)
How to attach to rigger cable
https://youtu.be/txdAmMeUl_w (https://youtu.be/txdAmMeUl_w)
Line to rubber band
https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE (https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE)
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Also try rubber bands thin ones!! Instead of the release..
I used to use #14 and #18 rubber bands when I fished trout and salmon for years in Lake Ontario.
Love rubber bands boon.
But have been fishing eyes the past few years with only a few early spring trips for trout and salmon.
So I have been using the white cannon releases because they are easy and work.
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Might need a custom rigger clip.
I used to take a paper clip and unwind one fold and then wrap it around the eye of the ball.
Then the rubber band would simple hook onto the paper clip.
Worked great
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That's a good idea if you watch the video they talk about strike from a fish if you use a longer release cable but still have to attach a clip to each end like the paper clip.. any way good tip..
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Good stuff guys!
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I'll check out the rubber band method. I twisted the line and made the loop using the chamberlain release. It still wrapped about the cable and snapped! I wonder if it happens if/when the boat stops.
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I'll check out the rubber band method. I twisted the line and made the loop using the chamberlain release. It still wrapped about the cable and snapped! I wonder if it happens if/when the boat stops.
Downriggers are for trolling, typically.
Why are you stopping?
I'm sure that this is why you are having problems.
A release goes off and you are fighting the fish, keep the boat moving.
You can slow down a little if you feel that you need to, but don't stop.
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Also make sure you have it lined up correctly once you get the line on. Sometime my chamberlain releases will spin around the cable as the boat is bouncing around when I'm setting up the line.
Also make sure you have some tension on the line/rod when sending th downrigger down. If the line is slack when your sending it down it can spin around on you as you have described. Attack is right in that it will also happen if you stop.
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Downriggers are for trolling, typically.
Why are you stopping?
I'm sure that this is why you are having problems.
A release goes off and you are fighting the fish, keep the boat moving.
You can slow down a little if you feel that you need to, but don't stop.
Also make sure you have it lined up correctly once you get the line on. Sometime my chamberlain releases will spin around the cable as the boat is bouncing around when I'm setting up the line.
Also make sure you have some tension on the line/rod when sending th downrigger down. If the line is slack when your sending it down it can spin around on you as you have described. Attack is right in that it will also happen if you stop.
Yes!
Once your line is in the Chamberlain release (I like 6 twists), thumb your spool with line taught to the release. Point the rod tip out beyond the rigger and ensure the line's not wrapped around your cable. While deploying your rigger, continue to thumb your (free) spool or have adequate drag tension to keep your line taught, but not too much to allow the line to break.
Tip: if your lure's hung up in the cable or release, don't snap it. Bring your release up to where you can find out what's wrong. It's a lure saver.
If your line gets wrapped around the cable, change out your leader or at least inspect it carefully. Mono does not get along well with braided wire.
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I don't remember why I needed to stop but I probably did it at least once. I'm going to try clipping a release directly to the ball...that way I have some distance from the cable. I'll post tomorrow with a new conundrum haha.
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I wonder if it happens if/when the boat stops.
I know for a fact it did !stopping the boat caused the mess try to keep boat in gear while fighting the fish.. fight the the fish right up the boats prop wash.. as soon as you stop boat those floating rapala and etc float up.. the sinking lures like Sutton spoons fall.. if you got a lot of guys in boat like 5 or 6 guys with 3 rods each like in my state we get a big messes cause of it..
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Yes!
Once your line is in the Chamberlain release (I like 6 twists), thumb your spool with line taught to the release. Point the rod tip out beyond the rigger and ensure the line's not wrapped around your cable. While deploying your rigger, continue to thumb your (free) spool or have adequate drag tension to keep your line taught, but not too much to allow the line to break.
Tip: if your lure's hung up in the cable or release, don't snap it. Bring your release up to where you can find out what's wrong. It's a lure saver.
If your line gets wrapped around the cable, change out your leader or at least inspect it carefully. Mono does not get along well with braided wire.
I do 100% exact as Seahunt describes except I don't thumb the spool. I turn the clicker on which provides perfect resistence. I can then drop the rigger ball as fast as I like with the spool open. When I reach depth...I put the reel in gear and tighten down then turn the clicker off. I put my Chamberlain between the ball and cable terminator on one DR and between (above) a 3 foot vertical attractor and the ball on the other (3 foot above the ball). Never had a problem with the cable (never take the boat out of gear unless your DR ball gets hung on bottom).
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How do you guys get a temp reading at depths? I want to be able to put my lure at 54 degrees but the thermometer I bought adjusts too quickly as I reel it back in. I refuse to spend hundreds on of that hawk thing that relays temps remotely. I'm going to try getting creative with my dive computer.
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How do you guys get a temp reading at depths? I want to be able to put my lure at 54 degrees but the thermometer I bought adjusts too quickly as I reel it back in. I refuse to spend hundreds on of that hawk thing that relays temps remotely. I'm going to try getting creative with my dive computer.
Fish hawk temp at depth probe..
http://www.fishhawkelectronics.com/marine-electronics/fish-hawk-x4 (http://www.fishhawkelectronics.com/marine-electronics/fish-hawk-x4)
See if you can find a cheap one..
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spent most of the weekend with the downrigger. This time I had a buddy on the boat making life a lot easier. Looking at a second, electric model, but not until some kinks are worked out
Three most common problems:
-chamberlain release would free itself and end up close to surface when I reeled up the slack
-occasional snag around the cable/keeping the release aft of the cable
-catching no fish (actually one wee laker).
bait includes a glow in the dark spoon with an eye (Northeast trollers I think)?, live shiners on a harness., preserved smelt behind a dodger, maybe a copper sutton or wobbler...not sure? I've been using garlic sented "lunker lotion" on nearly everything
braided line with swivel and about 12 feet flouro. Total of 20-30 feet behind the ball, 3 ft up the cable.
Stopped using the vertical blue/silver attractors didn't seem to make any difference.
Next step is replacing the chamberlain release with a new one and maybe using an elastic around the line and the elastic in the chamberlain to keep it away from the cable and provide some action. Will this work with braid?
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Video on rubber bands
Might need a custom rigger clip.
https://youtu.be/1WVovnXLLm4 (https://youtu.be/1WVovnXLLm4)
How to attach to rigger cable
https://youtu.be/txdAmMeUl_w (https://youtu.be/txdAmMeUl_w)
Line to rubber band
https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE (https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE)
See above videos I am sure if you make the knot that's in thd video with rubber band and braid it should work..
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This is the video iam talking about
https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE (https://youtu.be/kzHlQzFGKZE)
See above video I am sure if you make the knot that's in thd video with rubber band and braid it should work..
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I have never had to or wanted to use rubber bands with the chamberlain releases. I also cannot figure out how your release is floating up to the surface. If it's a cnemberlain stacker you should be able to "lock" the release to the DR cable by using the white tab on the side of the release, and sliding the release itself up. I would imagine your line getting wrapped around the cable is due to the reasons mentioned above, or because your release is not locked into the cable.
I have never used live/dead bait with much success this late in the season, and run hardware exclusively on the DR's this time of year. I also use a vertical or horizontal flasher 100% of the time this late in the year. If your using a flasher your lure should be very close to it, and not set way back from the attractor. It sounds like you only used two or three lures/spoons on your trip? If so I would add some more variety in different sizes, and colors. If I'm not catching fish on winni I will change my lures every 30 minutes or so until I find something they like. AJs in Meredith has every lure you could ever want, and he knows what's working on the lake.
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I have never had to or wanted to use rubber bands with the chamberlain releases. I also cannot figure out how your release is floating up to the surface. If it's a cnemberlain stacker you should be able to "lock" the release to the DR cable by using the white tab on the side of the release, and sliding the release itself up. I would imagine your line getting wrapped around the cable is due to the reasons mentioned above, or because your release is not locked into the cable.
I have never used live/dead bait with much success this late in the season, and run hardware exclusively on the DR's this time of year. I also use a vertical or horizontal flasher 100% of the time this late in the year. If your using a flasher your lure should be very close to it, and not set way back from the attractor. It sounds like you only used two or three lures/spoons on your trip? If so I would add some more variety in different sizes, and colors. If I'm not catching fish on winni I will change my lures every 30 minutes or so until I find something they like. AJs in Meredith has every lure you could ever want, and he knows what's working on the lake.
I'm due for a trip to AJ's.
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Downriggers are for trolling, typically.
Why are you stopping?
I'm sure that this is why you are having problems.
A release goes off and you are fighting the fish, keep the boat moving.
You can slow down a little if you feel that you need to, but don't stop.
We had to stop once...but it was because the king was going to spool me!
Mac's right...best thing is you dont stop, your fighting the fish and another rod gets smoked. If your running flutter spoons and you slow to fight a fish you may get smoked as well!
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I've got 2 cannon easy troll downriggers with line counter on them.. No ball, release clips, or base plate mounts. If anyone is interested I'd let them go cheap. I have the same ones on my boat and they do the job.
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for anyone interested I found that pointing your rod back towards the stern can help prevent line wrapping around the cable/release when using chamberlains. Frequently the release will want to point opposite of the cannonball, causing the line to wrap around while I was preparing to drop the ball. When I put the rod in the back holder the line pulled it in the right direction.
Probably a no-brainer for some but I only figured it out when I started stacking multiple lines and needed to find proper rod placement.
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Yes!
Once your line is in the Chamberlain release (I like 6 twists), thumb your spool with line taught to the release. Point the rod tip out beyond the rigger and ensure the line's not wrapped around your cable. While deploying your rigger, continue to thumb your (free) spool or have adequate drag tension to keep your line taught, but not too much to allow the line to break.
Tip: if your lure's hung up in the cable or release, don't snap it. Bring your release up to where you can find out what's wrong. It's a lure saver.
If your line gets wrapped around the cable, change out your leader or at least inspect it carefully. Mono does not get along well with braided wire.
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Point the rod tip out beyond the rigger and ensure the line's not wrapped around your cable. While deploying your rigger, continue to thumb your (free) spool or have adequate drag tension to keep your line taught, but not too much to allow the line to break.
yup
Even more important when letting out dipseys.