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My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: taxid on Jul 11, 2018, 02:09 PM

Title: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 11, 2018, 02:09 PM
I read once in a pond management magazine that tiger trout are hardier than even brown trout in marginal water temps and dissolved oxygen. And my trout egg supplier in Utah says the same. I was skeptical as after all they are partly brook trout, which require cooler water and more D.O.than their rainbow trout and brown trout counterparts.

Anyway, I moved trout from a pond that was not well water fed to keep it cool to one that is, this spring. Did not get all the trout out and they eventually expired due to higher water temps. First trout to go were brook trout which was expected. Last four trout were 3 tigers and one brown.

So perhaps there is something to this assertion?

Maybe a species to consider in waters that get marginal in summer?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: zwiggles on Jul 11, 2018, 05:38 PM
I think, in general, most hybrids are more hearty than their parents.

I know you often see “hybrid vigor” in plants where they show exceptional growth rates compared to their parents.

Same idea with a mule.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 11, 2018, 06:03 PM
I'm familiar with the hybrid vigor regarding growth rates etc. but never really thought about the hardiness factor, but yes plants and animals are definitely bred to be hardier. Corn is another example of a hybrid that is bred to withstand adverse conditions and pests.  Not sure the tigers were crossed for that reason, but apparently it's a byproduct?

My egg supplier did say under adverse conditions they may not grow much or even feed, but will hang in there where the other species will perish.

I have a lake near me that would be a perfect candidate for tigers. Has produced the state record of 18 lbs. 8 oz. rainbow and 2 to 3 pound rainbows were once common with my best a 7 lb. fish. It has a population of gizzard shad and yellow perch for forage. State claims survival is too low to justify stocking anymore trout although last fall trout up to 8 pounds were caught during a bass tournament. They did however dump some excess trout in the lake last year of small size which is better than nothing. 
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: westernmas on Jul 13, 2018, 07:55 AM
Sounds almost like a dog that is a mutt.  Mutts tend to have fewer health problems and live longer.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 13, 2018, 10:16 AM
did the DNR say what data told them the lake couldnt grow trout anymore?

Biologist Larry Koza cited a low return on tagged trout and low D.O. levels later in the summer in the lake. And abundant northern pike preying on the trout was also possibly a factor.

A now retired biologist told me the lake is a poor candidate for gill net surveys as the visibility is so good, fish avoid the net, so hopefully a seining survey was not used as criteria.

For me returned tags are like people responding to external surveys --  10 to 15 percent - not a good source for data. But to be fair I believe he said they had a 50 percent return rate of tags in a previous survey. I have also seen infections from tags, and knowing how sensitive trout are, I'd have to wonder if at least a small portion expired. I have seen my own trout become covered in fungus and die just by moving them in cold water and this was even with the use of salt!  I don't know what tags they used, but I'm not a big fan of spaghetti tags. I've seen them cause some really nasty infections at the point of entry.

And I think there are areas of the lake where the trout can survive as in an area of 50 plus deep water in the second basin where we caught them when we couldn't elsewhere. It was strange, but oxygen was good at that depth but sucked above that in the thermocline. The reverse of what it usually is for a mesotrophic lake in decline. 

Perhaps there is more to the story as in pressure from those that don't feel the trout should be in the lake and compete with their favored species? I.e. walleye fisherman and bluegill fisherman that have lines broken off by the trout while ice fishing?

Perhaps if I get my D.O. meter serviced I can get out there and collect some data of my own. It's presently on the fritz. I also want to get some time to get up there and fish for at least the big gills that Clear has!
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 13, 2018, 10:22 AM
Sounds almost like a dog that is a mutt.  Mutts tend to have fewer health problems and live longer.

Perhaps. I do agree with your mutt observation in dogs as I have seen it too. This time I got a purebred Akita at the humane shelter and she's been expensive!
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: SHaRPS on Jul 13, 2018, 01:39 PM
Perhaps. I do agree with your mutt observation in dogs as I have seen it too. This time I got a purebred Akita at the humane shelter and she's been expensive!

Try having 3 pure breed GSP's. LOL!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/emeaupzqf/Resized_20170616_153116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/emeaupzqf/)
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 13, 2018, 07:28 PM
Beautiful dogs!
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: SHaRPS on Jul 14, 2018, 02:43 AM
Thanks taxid.

Great family dogs and amazing hunting partners. They do eat a lot though!
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 14, 2018, 07:42 AM
I don't know of a dog that isn't aways hungry! And my America Akita is about 120 pounds so I know all about buying lots of dog food!  We get our dog food from Amazon Prime with free shipping. Helps a lot.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 14, 2018, 11:45 AM
Clear has always been known for some big bluegills, probably biggest in the state. Would be even more if there was a bag limit as they are really vulnerable in the fall when they stack up in a certain basin. I know a guy that was there every day in the fall and bragged about pulling out a few hundred in a week's time. . He also said he gave them all away. I and couple with me caught about 20 a piece and left.

Looks like if you want to catch trout you are now limited to Gage, the Oliver Lake Chain, and Tri-Lakes. Amazing compared to how many lakes were planted only 20 years ago.  Haven't bought my trout stamp this year and probably won't. Will probably be fishing Michigan more than Indiana.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 14, 2018, 03:51 PM
here is the biggest from last night.  not a monster for there tho, as you know.

(https://s22.postimg.cc/n3fz8flz1/clear_lk_monster.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/n3fz8flz1/)10-3/4"er

springs in that basin maybe contributing to DO level oddity?

Springs themselves typically have low dissolved oxygen.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 15, 2018, 03:12 PM
Nice fish! An 11 inch bluegill is a trophy anywhere.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 16, 2018, 08:14 AM
I wasn't ever really "working with the DNR" although I had a few summer jobs with them as biologist aid and couple of creel surveys after graduating from college. When I was a member of NEITA I believe the impetus for the 10 to 5 bag limit was the fish hogs on the Pigeon. Not you of course.  ;D. I seem to remember a regional supervisor not being impressed with what went on down there on opening morning. I fail to see the logic of that though, as the 99.999 percent of the trout on the Pigeon never make it through the summer.

I've never seen a 12 or 12 plus gill on Clear (on a board), but I have seen and mounted some 11 1/2's from Clear.

Clear also produced some bruiser browns back in it's hey day. If I was the INDNR I'd put some in as an experiment if the tigers are out of the question although the eggs are easily obtained complete with health certification.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 17, 2018, 09:59 AM
That bluegill could still be mountable. I've mounted fish that were just thrown in a freezer, not wrapped in anything, and forgotten for years. It's a job but it can be done. What I usually do is put them in ice water overnight. The next day I open the fish up with an incision on the wall side. Then soak more. Over a couple of days I'm usually able to get the the fish completely open and keep hydrating until I can remove al the flesh which has the consistency of balsa wood.

I'd be willing to try it with no charge unless I can rehydrate the entire fish and we are good to go.

As far as Clear putting tigers or browns in probably would only consider it if enough of us ask them to. I think the inland trout program is way low on the priority list with the steelhead etc. on Lake Michigan a much bigger priority.

Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 17, 2018, 12:25 PM
I know of a guy out west that had a pond stocked with trout. Come summer he couldn't get a bite and assumed they had all perished. Then fall rolled around and he was catching healthy trout left and right. If they can find a refugium of cold oxygenated water they can survive. I suspect that is what is happening with the big ones that are turning up in the fall. If you can find where they are hiding out you could be in for some incredible fishing for large fish. It could be just a small area.

Granted perhaps survival isn't what t used to be, but all it takes is a few from 5 to 10 lbs. to make it worthwhile. And they did get that back in the past. My biggest bow was 7 lbs. and I mounted a 10 lb. brown for a guy out of there. Then there's the state record of 18 lbs. 8 oz. out of there.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: zwiggles on Jul 19, 2018, 02:26 PM
 do you think trout would stop eating when they get forced into a hole like that? Say it’s a spring, or a river inlet, and the trout found a teeny tiny section of water which they could hold over in through the hottest months, do you think they may stop eating to conserve energy? I know it sounds counterintuitive, but maybe the act of digestion/foraging would increase their body temp to a point where it would shut down, so they simply live off the reserves and expend zero energy for anything but breathing? Kind of like some fish when they enter spawn?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 19, 2018, 05:40 PM
Zwiggles,

Most fish species that I know of our poikilothermic which means they are the same temp as the water so they're body temp is always the same as the water they are in. Only exceptions I know of that are not are Tuna and sharks but I sure there are others. But they are still nothing like mammals that are warm blooded.

So no, activity wouldn't increase their body temps, but stressful conditions like marginal temps or marginal oxygen very well could make them negative to feeding as they hunker down and wait it out until turn over.

Fishhogger may have being marking some large gizzard shad that weren't interested in his bait as they are zooplankton feeders when suspended. A friend drooped a camera down on marked fish once in Clear and marked a big school of small gar!
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 24, 2018, 09:50 AM
Wow must be nice to have a lake that has lots of forage! It's no wonder Clear produces some large predator fish! Allegedly bluegills don't compete well with gizzard shad. Perhaps the exception on Clear Lake. Or the predators fish keep the shad in check? Or the bluegill fishing could be even better without the gizzard shad?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 24, 2018, 04:13 PM
i wasnt on clear when i seen the shad schools "yesterday".  i should have made that clear. baha

 i was on another bass run closer to home.

My bad. Just curious what lake that would be as I'm not aware of too many lakes in our area that have shad.  Can you P.M. me?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 25, 2018, 12:36 PM
 I believe Hamilton does. Others?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: lowaccord66 on Jul 25, 2018, 06:08 PM
What I find odd about tigers is I can slay them with the spinning rod but with the fly rod they allude me.  Browns and bows...no problem...haven't caught a tiger on the long rod in a long time.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Jul 25, 2018, 06:56 PM
Maybe allegedly being more aggressive they prefer something with some meat on it?
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: lowaccord66 on Jul 25, 2018, 07:48 PM
Sure seems that way based off my experiences.  Might be time to strap on some streamers and find out.
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: Arhepwo on Sep 16, 2018, 11:40 PM
This is very true. Tiger trout aren't able to reproduce because they are cross breeds between a brown trout and Brook trout. The only way it is easy to catch one is in a stocked spring fed pond.

Tight lines

Al
Title: Re: It may be true: Tiger Trout are even hardier than Brown trout
Post by: taxid on Sep 17, 2018, 01:07 PM
This is very true. Tiger trout aren't able to reproduce because they are cross breeds between a brown trout and Brook trout. The only way it is easy to catch one is in a stocked spring fed pond.

Tight lines

Al

or fed by a well like mine.  ;D.

I've been enhancing the feed with astaxanthin. Colors are really starting to pop with the tigers, brooks, and browns!

I'd take picture and post it but the pond is so criss crossed with lines to keep the ospreys out I can't fish it until I can take the lines down, which is when the ospreys fly south.