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Author Topic: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion  (Read 56422 times)

fisher7450

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fishgalore

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #76 on: Nov 03, 2011, 08:45 AM »
interesting  tidbit  i  found  .....adds  somw  interesting  ideas 

http://www.lakesuperiorstreams.org/understanding/rainbowtrout.html

Some steelhead spawn in the fall, but most spawn in the spring mostly in April in Minnesota. Water temperatures must go above 5°C (41° F) and streams must rise (from rain) or the steelhead will not spawn.

oh  my  this  would  throw a  monkey  wrench  in  everything  .....




i  showed  this  picture  before  a  fish i know  in all honesty   most  would  id  as a  steelhead  silver  bullet  no facial  spots  .....can't  even  call it a  cross  it's  a  new  jersy  rainbow  where  the  hatchery  uses  it's  own  brood  stock  and  no washington   or  skamina  strain ....



Interesting link and a good read. I remembered this morning that the little fish you see below Trappers & my screen name is called a Steelhead. At least that's what MFF called it in the list of choices they give. Notice the color. How come it took me pages and pages to find that out for sure. LMAO. Anyway this whole topic is very interesting to me and the likelihood that we will become "experts" hinges upon how much study and or fishing for this species that we do. It's a fairly large undertaking as I think we are finding out.

Fisher7450 your first link is a dead one........it goes to some verizon screen. The 2nd one looks like its worth a read. Maybe another day. Back for 16 soon.

fishgalore

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #77 on: Nov 03, 2011, 08:51 AM »
You also have to put into a perspcetive too Bob, at that time of the year you have a few different strains of Steelhead in the river too. Summer spawners and spring spawners. The fish that Gillripper is hold is a Spring spawning Steelhead. The other one that guy number two is holding, looks to me to be a Late, summer run Male Steelhead. To thin and sleak to be a Domestic Rainbow. Look at your pig your holding just fat from the head to the anal fin. Thats what we're talking about here.. You can I.D. the different fish very easy.

I'm trying to Frank but my head is spinning from all this info. Which ones spawn when and multiple times, etc....... It's not so easy if you don't know what to look for but that's where the learning part comes in. It's a journey not a destination in the sense that we will ever "arrive" completely. There is just to much cross breeding that has occurred or at least that's what I think I'm gonna find when I read the book. Additionally, other factors such as those you note that are required knowledge. We'll see.

fisher7450

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #78 on: Nov 03, 2011, 09:38 AM »
http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm
try again  its about cross breads i know its not our hatchery but its an example
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lpv89

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #79 on: Nov 03, 2011, 04:01 PM »
All this talking about cross breads, and domestic's and steelhead. just make me want to go catch some more mutt's. just saying. so this weekend who ever gets a mutt. lets post a picture and play guess what kind of mutt it is?
Fish on!!!!!!!! When i get that big one the world will know.

draketrutta

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #80 on: Nov 03, 2011, 05:46 PM »
so Trap - do you agree with the spots on head theory posted by fishgalore?

I never knew about the spots before - but I never really paid much attention to detailed ID matters.

Just wondering if that gets your expert stamp of approval... ;)
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fishgalore

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #81 on: Nov 04, 2011, 02:27 AM »
drake   truth   i  been   fishing    steelies   for     40  years  including  west  coast   ,  i  have   volenteered    and   worked  in  2   fish  hatcherys  ,  i been  to  seminars  and   read  books  ..........  my  opinion  .....truth  ....  i  think  we  all  get  them  mixed   up alot  of  times  ..... there   is  no  one  rule   to  follow  ...  even   experts   us terms  such  as   "most  likely"  and "has  traits  of" ..... this    has  been  going  on   for  100's   of  years!!!!   until   the  1980's  steelhead  where  considered  a  different  spicies  ....spots  on  the   face  no  spots   color  shape domestic   wild   washington  michagan   skamanian  .....  drake   i  think   alot   of  them  jumped  the   fence ,wether  in  the  wild   or  in  the  hatcherys, i  think  there  is  no  100%  sure   way   we   can  id  all  the  fish (but  i  do  think  we  can   get  alot)    ....  now  michagan   says  they  have  steelhead  spawning  in  the  fall  too   ???  ???  hey  at  worse  it's  a  50  50    ;D

That is a fair assessment in light of Aaron's words..................... and a Steelhead "typically" will not.  I think Trapp is onto something here and I said it myself before. Trying to discover though has been fun for me. Learning is a part of the process and in the end all this learning might just lead us to the conclusion (which many have already resolved to note) that we CANNOT with 100% certainty ID them without some kind of genetic test anymore.

I'd bet that most guys reading this thread though will be looking for some of the specific traits that are being noted on the fish they are catching and that's a good thing IMO.

fishgalore

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #82 on: Nov 04, 2011, 02:30 AM »
http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/rainbow.htm
try again  its about cross breads i know its not our hatchery but its an example

Good read thanks!

draketrutta

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #83 on: Nov 04, 2011, 06:43 AM »
gotcha Trap...

honestly, I never thought about the dots on the "rainbow trout's head.

Glad that fishgalore posted about it. It was very interesting research he dug up.

later
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fishgalore

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #84 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:09 AM »
Compare:-  Also notice the wound on the underside of her mouth. It appears she was preparing a redd and was either preparing to spawn or was spawning. I caught this fish on 12/13/09





I forgot to note.............she lived to see another day. So hopefully she spawned out before someone took her out. I'm mostly a C & R guy.  If someone I'm with wants the fish and will eat it, they can have it. But don't freeze it for 6 mos then throw it away. I'd let it go if I knew that would happen.  The Pequest empties into the Delaware River.

esox v

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #85 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:33 AM »
skamania steelhead  spawn  at  the  same  time  as  regular  steelhead  spawn  ...unless     steelhead  too   can  spawn   at  different  times    and  if  thats  the  case   your  fall  spawning  domistics     may  not  be  domestics  at  all  ......

Skamania steelhead spawn in the spring they just enter the river early.... One of the key factors you will see repeating in systems with Fall spawning fish is the domestic or hatchery raised captive broodstock... There are many different strains spring and autum spawning rainbows..
 Do a search on the London strain of Rainbow trout. see what you can dig up....................

this is also an interesting read...
http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf  
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esox v

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #86 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:48 AM »
now  michagan   says  they  have  steelhead  spawning  in  the  fall  too   ???  ??? 
as does Ontario, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Minnesota..... And you thought they didn't exist two weeks ago !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
"There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetrated
under the shield of law and in the name of justice."
--Charles de Montesquieu (1689-1755)
For tyranny to work some idiots are required…

The most dangerous thing any nation faces..  is a citizenry capable of trusting a liar to lead them....

Special Ed

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #87 on: Nov 04, 2011, 10:35 AM »
as does Ontario, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Minnesota..... And you thought they didn't exist two weeks ago !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Flip Flop Flip Flop Flip Flop  ::) ;D

esox v

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #88 on: Nov 04, 2011, 11:35 AM »
  my  point  esox   mishagan  reports (some)  steelhead    spawning   wild  in  the  fall!  same  strains  we  have  ....  oh my  another  monkey  wrench 
Thats because the trait can be passed on ...
"There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetrated
under the shield of law and in the name of justice."
--Charles de Montesquieu (1689-1755)
For tyranny to work some idiots are required…

The most dangerous thing any nation faces..  is a citizenry capable of trusting a liar to lead them....

esox v

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Re: Steelhead & Domestic Rainbow Trout Strains discussion
« Reply #89 on: Nov 04, 2011, 11:50 AM »
One of the key factors you will see repeating in systems with Fall spawning fish is the domestic or hatchery raised captive broodstock... They are not sterile and can interbreed.... the cold water period will help to keep that separate...... but not 100%
"There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetrated
under the shield of law and in the name of justice."
--Charles de Montesquieu (1689-1755)
For tyranny to work some idiots are required…

The most dangerous thing any nation faces..  is a citizenry capable of trusting a liar to lead them....

 



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