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MFF US Northeast => New York => Topic started by: filetandrelease on Mar 27, 2021, 08:30 AM

Title: Invasive species
Post by: filetandrelease on Mar 27, 2021, 08:30 AM

 http:// https://www.newyorkupstate.com/outdoors/2021/03/highly-aggressive-algae-found-in-skaneateles-lake-could-affect-fishing-boating.html
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: trapper2000 on Mar 27, 2021, 08:40 AM
ain't good
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: gotagetm on Mar 27, 2021, 09:49 AM
Think not good
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: trapper2000 on Mar 27, 2021, 11:45 AM
maybe if we lower the panfish limit  everything will be ok
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: filetandrelease on Mar 27, 2021, 03:24 PM


  They said it is strong enough to tow a boat , if itís in skinny itís in the rest Iím sure
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 27, 2021, 05:33 PM
maybe if we lower the panfish limit  everything will be ok

 :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 27, 2021, 05:35 PM
Another one that hitch hiked in ballast water. When will it end?
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: rgfixit on Mar 27, 2021, 05:37 PM
Canít stop Mother Nature. Sheíll have what she wants.

And who are we to complain.

Rg
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 27, 2021, 05:39 PM
Canít stop Mother Nature. Sheíll have what she wants.

And who are we to complain.

Rg

I would say Mother Nature is getting a big hand in this case.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: rgfixit on Mar 27, 2021, 05:50 PM
Ya know.....back when there was all the hoopla about zebra mussels, everyone was all up in arms. Thereís no stopping them and they havenít done any permanent damage that Iíve seen. Theyíre here and everything in nature has adapted. Itíll be the same with this is my guess.

Humans always think they can control and alter the world around them. In fact, we are just a part of it. We donít own it. We canít control it, we can only adapt to the natural changes that have occurred for millions of years before us and continue.
 
Fact is we just donít like change.

Rg
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 27, 2021, 08:20 PM
Ya know.....back when there was all the hoopla about zebra mussels, everyone was all up in arms. Thereís no stopping them and they havenít done any permanent damage that Iíve seen. Theyíre here and everything in nature has adapted. Itíll be the same with this is my guess.

Humans always think they can control and alter the world around them. In fact, we are just a part of it. We donít own it. We canít control it, we can only adapt to the natural changes that have occurred for millions of years before us and continue.
 
Fact is we just donít like change.

Rg

Somewhat true but a lot of the invasive species we are dealing with are anything but natural. Some of them do need to be controlled and are costing a lot of money to do so. We have lakes out my way that are getting absolutely choked with Eurasion water millfoil and 35 other species of aquatic plants. It costs thousands of dollars annually just keep ahead of milfoil in just an average size lake. One of the reasons some lake associations are blocking access to outside boats. Zebras do cause serious issues with water intakes, and smother and out compete native species of mussels too extinction. They can pile up on the bottom, decompose and cause botulism. Spiny Water fleas are worthless as fish forage vs. native species, and believe it or we now have Asian tape worms in our Great Lakes now. I could go on and on. I believe we are over 180 species of exotic invasive now in the Great Lakes.

VHS came in from ballast water and is costing fish farms millions of dollars in fish health testing. My bill if I choose to sell fish across state lines is several thousand dollars. Some of us have gone out of business because we can't afford it.

I guess will just have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: fishogger on Mar 28, 2021, 08:40 AM
zebras around here have cleared up the waters big time!  that has led to massive weed growth.  massive weed growth leads to complaints by non fisher types.  that leads to weed control with chemicals that poison the fisher types and their families. 

one pay lake by me(run by moron left wing city types) makes you spray off your boat before launch.  what a joke that is.  that dont get them off at all.  whats more ignorant is the lake is already infested with zebras so it does nothing but cause hassles for the boat owners.  its too late for that water already.  like a lot of laws passed on feelings and not facts its useless.

the algae in that article sounds pretty devastating!   

 
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: fishogger on Mar 28, 2021, 08:43 AM
maybe if we lower the panfish limit  everything will be ok

lol good one :clapping:
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 28, 2021, 09:28 AM
zebras around here have cleared up the waters big time!  that has led to massive weed growth.  massive weed growth leads to complaints by non fisher types.  that leads to weed control with chemicals that poison the fisher types and their families. 

one pay lake by me(run by moron left wing city types) makes you spray off your boat before launch.  what a joke that is.  that dont get them off at all.  whats more ignorant is the lake is already infested with zebras so it does nothing but cause hassles for the boat owners.  its too late for that water already.  like a lot of laws passed on feelings and not facts its useless.

the algae in that article sounds pretty devastating! 


There are still invasives that have not reached some bodies of water. Nothing wrong with being careful. Not all invasives spread by fragmentation so spraying the boats off would work.

Clearer water increases light penetration allowing macrophytes to grow into deeper water. With some of the invasives they will proliferate regardless, as it's what they do. The non anglers were over spraying macrophytes long before the invasives showed up.

What's amazing how little nutrients it takes to fuel algae and macrophytes. I found that out fertilizing ponds for fingerling production. Get just a little carried away and you've got a mess.

 
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 28, 2021, 09:45 AM
The thing about some of the invasives is they don't know when to quit. And if you think that only happens on shallow lakes think again. I know a glacial kettle lake I fish out east that averages 40 feet deep, but recently curly leaf pondweed got in there. Now it's growing down to 20 feet in the ultra clear water (water clarity is 25 feet) and comes up all the way to the surface in large masses.

(https://i.imgur.com/Mr6YuClm.jpg)

Over time excessively weed infested lakes fill in faster than normal, and are prone to winterkill if heavy snow builds up on the ice, blocks out sunlight, photosynthesis stops, and the weeds decompose using up oxygen.

The excessive weeds also take up nutrients that could be part of the phytoplankton zooplankton part of the food chain that is essential for fish fry and even larger fish.

Another disavantage is in excessively weedy lakes it's tougher for predator fish to crop down the forage fish such as bluegills. Usually, but not always, ponds and lakes with excessive weed grow have stunted bluegills due to that. 

Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: Pequod1 on Mar 29, 2021, 04:48 AM
Thank you. Excellent explanation Taxid.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: FrankM on Mar 29, 2021, 08:47 AM
It is becoming increasingly obvious that merchant ship captains must be the most careless, ignorant creatures in the world.  Exxon Valdez, all the foreign crap introduced into US waters by not following regulations on how to handle ballast water. Sailing one of the largest ships in the world into the Suez Canal during a sandstorm. It will never end. The government can make all the rules they want.  It will make them and their naive supporters feel good but if the rules aren't followed they are useless.
Also the people that thought it was a good idea to import cheap Chinese crap on untreated pallets can be added to the list of vermin.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 29, 2021, 09:41 AM
It is becoming increasingly obvious that merchant ship captains must be the most careless, ignorant creatures in the world.  Exxon Valdez, all the foreign crap introduced into US waters by not following regulations on how to handle ballast water. Sailing one of the largest ships in the world into the Suez Canal during a sandstorm. It will never end. The government can make all the rules they want.  It will make them and their naive supporters feel good but if the rules aren't followed they are useless.
Also the people that thought it was a good idea to import cheap Chinese crap on untreated pallets can be added to the list of vermin.

It's not the ship captains. It's the power of corporate lobbyists and the politicians that get funding via those lobbyists from big corps and in turn do their bidding. Hence they have the interests of the big corps over our piddly fishing and recreational needs. Our system is set up where you need lots of funding to run for office, and you have to keep soliciting for funding while you are in office to campaign and stay in office. Many politicians loath the fact that they have to spend a large part of their time begging for funding, but they have no choice. At least a few out there now don't take corporate money and depend instead on small individual donations.

A very astute friend that is now deceased, said a simple solution would be to treat the ballast water with nitrogen gas which is inert and harmless outside of a contained space such as ballast tank. Would kill anything in those tanks. It was never taken seriously as far as I know. I do think there are rules in place but haven't kept up enough know if they are implemented or how effective.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: FrankM on Mar 29, 2021, 12:26 PM
I guess I am not woke enough. I am just an old-fashioned dinosaur who believes in individual responsibility.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 29, 2021, 03:14 PM
What is "woke"  or "woke enough?"
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: UglyStik on Mar 29, 2021, 05:22 PM
Speaking of invasives...

https://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/2021/03/anglers-tale-i-caught-a-14-12-inch-goldfish-in-onondaga-lake-with-my-fly-rod.html (https://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/2021/03/anglers-tale-i-caught-a-14-12-inch-goldfish-in-onondaga-lake-with-my-fly-rod.html)

Is there a NYS record category for GOLDFISH? This guy might have had a shot at it.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: Shawner on Mar 30, 2021, 09:31 AM


     Back in 2003 I was part of the first fish survey conducted in and around the Montezuma Wildlife Complex. We shocked the waters for 3 days and came up with some surprises in the nets. One of which was a huge mutant goldfish that was someone's pet or prize from a carnival game. It had no gill plates and its gills were just well, exposed. :o To this day, one of the strangest things I've seen in local waters. The Clyde river to be exact.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Mar 30, 2021, 04:33 PM

     Back in 2003 I was part of the first fish survey conducted in and around the Montezuma Wildlife Complex. We shocked the waters for 3 days and came up with some surprises in the nets. One of which was a huge mutant goldfish that was someone's pet or prize from a carnival game. It had no gill plates and its gills were just well, exposed. :o To this day, one of the strangest things I've seen in local waters. The Clyde river to be exact.

Wow I could see other species not surviving that. It shows you what a tough *** fish a goldfish is!
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: trapper2000 on Apr 04, 2021, 12:33 PM
carp are invasive wait when them jumpers get here
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: rgfixit on Apr 04, 2021, 02:58 PM
Doubt theyíll ever get this far.
Every new specie is invasive. Hell, humans are the most invasive specie of all. We try to change everything to suit what we think is good. It might be....10% of the time.

Rg
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: fontona19 on Apr 04, 2021, 03:56 PM
All species have the potential to be invasive. Depends on the body of water. Carp in most bodies of water are non-native and nothing more.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: filetandrelease on Apr 04, 2021, 05:13 PM

 http:// han ...
Aug 13, 2019 ó The Chicago Tribune covered the study, and emphasized the alarming finding that bighead carp could sustain themselves across at least 97% of Lake Michigan from June through November. ... Asian carp have been found in the Chicago River, as close as 9 miles from Lake Michigan and their DNA has been found even closer.
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: trapper2000 on Apr 04, 2021, 05:17 PM
they be coming
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: rgfixit on Apr 04, 2021, 05:24 PM
Canít stop Mother Nature.

Rg
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: filetandrelease on Apr 04, 2021, 05:43 PM
Canít stop Mother Nature.

Rg
There always seems to be a way
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: rgfixit on Apr 04, 2021, 05:48 PM
Thatís a fact Jack!

Rg
Title: Re: Invasive species
Post by: taxid on Apr 06, 2021, 07:10 AM
Canít stop Mother Nature.

Rg

A little personal anecdote to show you how pervasive mother nature can be:

I used to have only female yellow perch in a pond as the females grow the fastest, get the largest, and when full of eggs can be quite impressive as we all know. This is part of my niche market where I grow trophy size fish of various species for the taxidermy market. Anyway, I needed a place to put the males that I used for breeding in a separate pond, which I put in a floating pen, in the same pond attached to a pier, with the bottom of the pen about 8 feet off the bottom.  The pens were put together with plastic zip ties, and the extra material from one zip tie was sticking out on one bottom corner. One day I walked out on the pier and noticed a massive yellow perch egg strand precariously hanging off the piece of zip tie! I ran back to the house to get a long handled net to scoop up the egg strain as I suspected the males in the pen probably sprayed the egg strand through the mesh. When I got back the egg strand had fallen off. I was too late. Sure enough I had yellow perch reproduction the year! Nature had found a way.

I've also had bluegill and yellow perch swim upstream under ground about 300 feet through strong flow in a 6 inch drainage pipe the comes out of my trout from my warm water pond.

In our are we are seeing the blacknose crappie variant show up in public waters that are only planted in private ponds.