Poachers Go To Prison

[CAPTJJ]

Looks like the Feds take poaching more seriously than many local judges; these were the guys selling fish to Honey's in Whitehall last year.

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_d3d0df82-7a6f-11e0-a26c-001cc4c002e0.html

[esox v]

WOW !!
I don't know this for sure but .... I would imagine the penalty was so steep because the fish were transported over state lines...  which is why they are in Federal court and they are going to federal prison....The simple fact that they crossed the boarder with them..... I bet that violation is way bigger than the actual fish and game violation would ever be.....
 I don't like poachers but that Seems a bit steep to me... heck you don't get that much time in NY for 8 DUI's.... But...... You can bet that they won't do that again !!  

[filetandrelease]

i think it is called the Lacy act , when transporting over state lines it then falls under the Feds.

[carcaju]

good now if we can get local judges to go just as hard it would be a plus

[surflizard]

I'm glad to see it, this story kinda fell by the way side here in NH, In my opinion, whether it's Federal or local they should put the boots to guys like this, figuratively speaking of course ! If you watch these warden shows on TV, 90 percent of the people they pop are multiple repeat offenders, Why is that, it's because of the wrist slapping that is prevalent in our society today !! Sorry for the rant folks, this is a sore subject with me !

[trapper2000]

i  find  this  funny  and  as  always  i  have a  totally  different  view  ....  now  i  sell  a  few  perch  and  gills  i  admit  but i  follow  the  law  ...basicly  the   old  lady  wouldn't  bale  my  old  butt  out  if  i  got  caught    but  with  people  losing there  homes  left  and  right   prices   sky  rocketing  unemployment  over  10%  do  you  really  think  it's  not  going to happen????i seen parks  closed   yet  my  lic fees  rose ? i seen  the  dec say they  didn't  have the man power yet seen them waste  time  investgating  legal  issues  that the troopers should  have handled ?? ...  i seen private  property  stocked then  posted  and laws passed  that  will only  cost the tax payer money to enforce  ......well  sorry  boys  i'm turning my back  when i see a  man try to feed his  family or make a  buck  ...  the  real poachers and  criminals  are in office  .....and ya know what  a lot of people  feel like i do  they  just  don't want  to  argue  there point ....do  you  remeber  the  movie  josey wales  ...."don't  be  peeing  down my  back  and  tell me  it's  raining"

now  heres  some  food  for  though  ....  they  got  caught  with  panfish!!!!!  and  there  going  to  federal  prision?  looking  at  6 years  total   hmmmmm  it  cost  the  tax  payers  55  grand  a  year  to  keep  a  man in  prision  a  year  so  the  tax  payers  are  going  to  spend  330 grand  over  a  few  buckets  of  perch??  and  you  guys  think  this  is  good?

 this  isn't  good  this  is  foolishness

[hunts2long]

You said it yourself, " you follow the law ".. They by breaking the law,  someone must pay. One of them is 20 years old. Hopefully a lesson was learned. I can see where you are coming from, but I believe "the law is the law" not "the law is made to be broken"..hunts2long

With topics like this you may be at 4000 by the end of the month////hunts2long

[trapper2000]

hunter  why  should  you  and  i  pay  taxes   to  be  spend  on  foolishness??  and  why  is  the  federal  government involved  in  what  should  be  state  law??   so  my  tax  dollars  is  going to imprision  a  20  year old  for  taking  a  few  buckets of  perch  to pay  for  gas  to  get  to work  while  some  crack head  is  free   because  the  feds  where  watching  some  one  fish???  THIS IS STUPID

[surflizard]

I respect your right to your opinion Trapper, But myself personally, I can not and will not condone Poaching in any way, shape or form !! I've been out of work for awhile and if the doctors have their way, I won't be allowed to work again. My point being that I'm being forced to sell everything I own, Tools, equipment, weapons just to keep a roof over our heads ! I don't buy that excuse that they are just trying to get by, Poachers are not driven by the Drastic need to survive or the concern about feeding their familys like people were during the Great Depression, Nowadays the reason for poaching simply boils down to GREED !! They simply did it for the Money !! JMHO !

[adkbrookie]

i  find  this  funny  and  as  always  i  have a  totally  different  view  ....  now  i  sell  a  few  perch  and  gills  i  admit  but i  follow  the  law  ...basicly  the   old  lady  wouldn't  bale  my  old  butt  out  if  i  got  caught    but  with  people  losing there  homes  left  and  right   prices   sky  rocketing  unemployment  over  10%  do  you  really  think  it's  not  going to happen????i seen parks  closed   yet  my  lic fees  rose ? i seen  the  dec say they  didn't  have the man power yet seen them waste  time  investgating  legal  issues  that the troopers should  have handled ?? ...  i seen private  property  stocked then  posted  and laws passed  that  will only  cost the tax payer money to enforce  ......well  sorry  boys  i'm turning my back  when i see a  man try to feed his  family or make a  buck  ...  the  real poachers and  criminals  are in office  .....and ya know what  a lot of people  feel like i do  they  just  don't want  to  argue  there point ....do  you  remeber  the  movie  josey wales  ...."don't  be  peeing  down my  back  and  tell me  it's  raining"

now  heres  some  food  for  though  ....  they  got  caught  with  panfish!!!!!  and  there  going  to  federal  prision?  looking  at  6 years  total   hmmmmm  it  cost  the  tax  payers  55  grand  a  year  to  keep  a  man in  prision  a  year  so  the  tax  payers  are  going  to  spend  330 grand  over  a  few  buckets  of  perch??  and  you  guys  think  this  is  good?

 this  isn't  good  this  is  foolishness

Trapper, I agree with you on this to a point. If a person is trying to feed his family then well I am okay with that. I see people get all bent out of shape when someone shares deer tags or similar bits that are not technically okay in the eyes of the law. But we've got deer all over and dispite what most guys think about deer management we probably have too many in most cases. Even though we are living in modern times some do get by on that meat they take in less than legal manners. I am okay with that. As long as the meat is being used, not wasted and the population not decimated then I say let it go.

The other night when the walleyes were really on a guy left with 5 when he should have left with 3... If i saw him get into a $40K truck then I would have tried to get a plate number. But I tend to assume that they have a good reason and hope for the best. If I cannot tell, let it go....

These guys have gotten caught a bunch of times now and it certainly does not seem like they are doing it to just stay afloat. The point about how much it costs to keep them in prison is a great one. I bet most of the guys who are glad they are going to prision don't want to raise taxes either.  So why not keep them out of prison but give them a rediculously high fine and then use the money to help manage the fisheries they have been exploiting??? 

[JBoggey1]

Trapper, don't believe in breaking the law, also don't agree with a lot of the laws, but once a law is enacted I try to honor the spirit and intent thereof. Your point , of extreem punishment is however well taken. I feel the lose of hunting fishing licenses for five years and monetary restitution would have been sufficient penalty for the offence as stated. Without incarceration these poachers would still be able to work and support there respective families, keeping them off the public dole and contributing income, sales, school and home owner tax dollarsto society in general. Taking these three individuals out of society , preventing them from supporting there families and placing them in the penal system will punish society far worse than the offending individuals. We ,the tax payers will be far more on the hook than these offending poachers. As you have listed , we will be paying over 35,000 dollars a year for each of these offenders times the years of incarceration. ( 3 X 35,000 X 5 years ) could cost us , the taxpayer upwards of a half million dollars. Boy, we sure taught these poachers a lesson didn't we ? Add to this the cost of supporting there respective families for the period of there confinement and we are probably well over three quarters of a million dollars.
       The greater point of contention should be proportioned punishment for the offence. As stated in the previous paragraph, a reasoned states or federal prosecutor would or should seek justice as prescribed there in, but good judgement is lacking on all fronts of government these days.  To propose we should pick and choose the laws we wish to obey or disobey is  a non starter. To vote and elect responsible thoughtful law makers is the remedy for such foolishness as this prosecution unfolds . This thread deserves to go viral. Thank you for all of your thoughtful considerations.

[Gamma Fish]

State, local and federal investigators said the trio kept hundreds more perch and panfish than the law allowed. The fish were allegedly caught from the Connecticut River between New Hampshire and Vermont, and the men were accused of selling them to a Whitehall bait shop.

The bait shop in turn sold them to companies that buy such fish for human consumption, a practice that is legal.

Investigators believe the group had been illegally taking fish from waters around the Northeast for years and selling them to Honey's Bait & Tackle in Whitehall. Neither Honey's nor its owner have been charged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Until they publicize what was meant by "Illegally Taking Fish", there's no need to defend these guys !     They may have been netting, trapping, using explosives, snagging, shocking or using other illegal means to take the fish.   We don't know what means they took the fish !    Besides that, if they repoeatedly took over their limits, whether they sold them or not, throw the book at them !       If guys can afford to go fishing every day and take as many fish as they want, they're most likely not hurting too much financially....or maybe they live in a cave 
  We have some clowns like this right here in CNY !    Over the past couple days, I witnessed one of the groups wipe out a population of big pre spawn bluegills and sunfish and now they're back catching 6 inch fish and keeping every one they catch !      Between 3 and 6 guys lined up 25 feet apart and spreading their gear and 6 buckets in between them as to keep others from fishing the area.   Leaving worm containers, garbage and beer cans around the area and using language that caused a few families with kids to leave the area
    The vehicles they were driving were fairly new and not Kia Rio's !    One was a brand new Chevy pick up, another was a late 2000's Lincoln Navigator !
  (Esox V knows the Red Chevy truck and it's owner)   These guys all work or are screwing the government with false disability claims, collecting welfare, food stamps and other funding and living better than a guy working 40 hours a week and they still act like scum bag vultures with no ethics, morals or concern for anything but putting more money in their pockets any way they can !

  If you want to and can catch a "Legal Limit" of fish and sell them every day, have at it !   IT'S LEGAL and I have no problem with that !

  I'd rather have our tax money going to imprison scum bags like these poachers who're infringing on the rest of use than some poor B@stard who got caught smoking a weed who's not hurting any of us  !

 

[Gamma Fish]

Trapper, don't believe in breaking the law, also don't agree with a lot of the laws, but once a law is enacted I try to honor the spirit and intent thereof. Your point , of extreem punishment is however well taken. I feel the lose of hunting fishing licenses for five years and monetary restitution would have been sufficient penalty for the offence as stated. Do you truely believe that these guys will stop fishing and hunting if their licenses were taken away for 5 years ?   Poaching is a way of life for people like this whether they're financially stable or not !      The chances of them getting caught fishing without a license is slimmer than them getting caught with illegal fish !      They will continue doing what they do regardless of whether they have a license or not !     It's just like the gun laws !   Take guns away and people will club each other to death or use some other means !
  Without incarceration these poachers would still be able to work and support there respective families, keeping them off the public dole and contributing income, sales, school and home owner tax dollarsto society in general.  Do they work ?    Can they work ?   Have they already been through the justice system for similar or other offenses ?   Do they have families ?     Do they pay taxes or are they welfare/disability/public assistance recipients who're already milking the system and wasting our tax dollars ?

    Taking these three individuals out of society , preventing them from supporting there families and placing them in the penal system will punish society far worse than the offending individuals. We ,the tax payers will be far more on the hook than these offending poachers. As you have listed , we will be paying over 35,000 dollars a year for each of these offenders times the years of incarceration. ( 3 X 35,000 X 5 years ) could cost us , the taxpayer upwards of a half million dollars. Boy, we sure taught these poachers a lesson didn't we ? Add to this the cost of supporting there respective families for the period of there confinement and we are probably well over three quarters of a million dollars.As mentioned above....Do these guys already abuse the system ?   If they do, it's costing us much more that $35,000 per year per man and much more if they have families !    They're disrespecting their families by acting unlawfully and putting them in jeopardy !   
      
  The greater point of contention should be proportioned punishment for the offence. As stated in the previous paragraph, a reasoned states or federal prosecutor would or should seek justice as prescribed there in, but good judgement is lacking on all fronts of government these days.  To propose we should pick and choose the laws we wish to obey or disobey is  a non starter. To vote and elect responsible thoughtful law makers is the remedy for such foolishness as this prosecution unfolds . This thread deserves to go viral. Thank you for all of your thoughtful considerations.

[1fish@atime]

Some good thoughts Gamma, a license is just either a expense or a cover for most poachers.  Taking away a privilege won't deter most. Most don't have a license to begin with. That could be the reason they were taking illegally. The method may have been totally legal, but not having a license to do so. I also believe they are a product of their environment. They have been taught to do what they were doing. Either by their family or even by the company they chose to keep. Either way it probably has been going on in their immediate circle of people they know or are related to for years. So the thought of a few fish to feed the family is out the window. Also if we believe that because these three were caught it is ended, your sadly mistaken. There is a lot more of the iceberg we can't see. At what point do we stop it and say enough. We simply can't afford the, well it's just a couple fish, outlook any longer.  Just a quick look at the memberships of these websites should tell people, if we all did one little thing against the rules what an impact on the wildlife we would have. The discussion could go onto the cost to keep people in jail.
Most of us would like to earn 35,000 a year. Why does it cost that much? Most families in the state live on less. We worry way to much on the rights of prisoners... They have no rights as I see it. They gave those up when they chose to break the laws we have in place as a society.  Stop coddling them!!
Your right on F&R, cross state lines and it becomes federal. So not only did these guys hurt NY'ers, they also hurt people in two other states.
Bottom line is this will never stop or will everyone agree who is right about what we should do with violators. But at some point we need to. The anti groups use every high exposure case like these to drive a wedge further into law makers as to how to deal with it. They speak the truth of sorts, as if hunting and fishing were stopped, there would be less people doing something that may have the chance to break a law. Only those that would do it regardless would be out there and instead of hiding among law abiding sportsman and women, they would stand out and be caught a lot easier. Costing the taxpayers a lot less money to try to protect wildlife and the lands. So it truly is up to us to stop them.

[bigredfishing]

These types of scumbags are the ones that do the most damage to the hunting and fishing community.   

There's been a number of high profile cases lately, and I hope they all get media attention.

I've seen first hand what these people do to a smaller body of water once they "zone-in" on the panfish, and it is ugly....terrible.   These people aren't fisherman, they are criminals, pure and simple.