MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => Vermont => Topic started by: dickbaker on Mar 13, 2017, 11:15 AM
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??? In Maine and NH I spend a great deal of time slow trolling live shiners for salmon. They seemed to work well on the Inland Sea but I swapped to spoons because they are so easy to change out and they seem to be a little more resistant to white and yellow perch. But I always seemed to catch bigger salmon with the live shiners? Anybody else use live bait? I'm going to try it out again in 2017! Dockside seems to have the perfect small to medium goldens that I need? Shiners always seem to provide the perfect size/color/taste?
Dick
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Growing up in southern Maine my grampa taught me to "sew on" smelt. Now fishing Winnipesaukee I've been taught how to troll shiners. My grampa would have considered that a sin? I've learned a new and super simple way to sew on shiners while keeping them alive for a long time.
Smelt are not only expensive , they don't survive long on a hook and almost never once they are sewn on? Also, smelt tend to spin and twist the line while shiners tend to swim naturally with little spin as long as speed is less than 2 mph. I plan to troll Champlain this season with a spread of one half spoons and one half shiners?
Dick
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Hi Dick, This is the way I sew- on. Do you use a similar method. You are right shiners are way tougher then smelt and stay alive longer.
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1074.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw414%2Ffishwayniac%2FE5C98E62-5830-4DC9-B237-7F62FD69F1A8.png&hash=bf49a0d0f73a80c63b900cfb29a18f50) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/fishwayniac/media/E5C98E62-5830-4DC9-B237-7F62FD69F1A8.png.html)
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;D ??? Pretty close? I prefer to skip the second hook location and go directly to the belly and out the anus. This keeps the shiner swimming upright with less spin. Hooked this way shiners seem to stay alive for more than an hour. In any event my grampa told me that smelt (shiners?) are always the right color and flavor??
In any event I will try to compare live shiner to spoons for the coming season?
Dick
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??? I think I can post a picture of my shiner hooking design if anyone is interested, BUT Champlain fishermen seem to have a have a predilection
for carrying hundreds of dollars of spoons and body baits?? Still expensive to purchase medium shiners at $3/doz. but it is what I was taught to do in Maine and NH? Also , smelt aren't available in Vt. so its easy to stay with my tried and true Arkansas shiners!
Let's see what happens this year when I troll both spoons and shiners? I have more than enough tamiron honeybees and DB Smelt to give it a fair try?
Dick
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would love to see it....want to try live bait for browns and lakers in the finger lakes
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If we run minnow type baits I use yozuri's or a silver spoon.. but on the silver spoon I use lure tape with one or the other of two types of tape one a micro sparkle from jannsnet craft .Com the other a snake belly "s"pattren from eBay.. bolth in silver on a silver spoon.. the fish mistake the lures for shiners.. if you can a full moon night fishing may get you more hook ups to?? For yozuris I prefer black back silver side yozuri's like a crystal minnow.. in a 3.5 inch but watch the regs cause I am not from that state.. some places don't allow double multi pointed hooks for salmon.. we run minnows but were allowed a stinger hook here.. not sure about there??
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??? Hope this shows my shiner trolling method?
Dick
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1040.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb410%2Fdickbaker%2Ftrollingrig.jpg&hash=9e582f6e4e65c0f766e0f6f390f1365a) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/dickbaker/media/trollingrig.jpg.html)
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1040.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb410%2Fdickbaker%2Ftrollingrig-1.jpg&hash=a01b6a1bab620868f308ee10cb5f76da) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/dickbaker/media/trollingrig-1.jpg.html)
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A friend in Mass turned me on to trolling shiners behind a chrome size 0 Dodger and it's dynamite vs. just a spoon. I was trolling on South Pond (Quacumquasit) in Mass one day and couldn't get a hit with spoons and a downrigger. Put the dodger and shiner on and hook ups improved tremendously with one really nice brown which I released.
I now use it in Indiana for rainbows and it seems I get bigger rainbows using it vs. a spoon. I think trout wise up to spoons after a while.
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??? Go to you tube video of Champlain underwater video trolling for salmon?? Watch many salmon come to spoon, smell and feel it and than fly away! I don't think they would have passed up the tasty and shiny real thing??
Dick
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Wouldn't a salmon see way more smelt in the course of its life than it would see shiners? Aren't shiners a warm water baitfish were as smelts are cold water?
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Wouldn't a salmon see way more smelt in the course of its life than it would see shiners? Aren't shiners a warm water baitfish were as smelts are cold water?
But they both smell fishy vs. a piece of metal.
A friend sprays all his spoons with a fish attractant. Swears by it but I have to wonder how long it stays on a piece of metal.
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Wouldn't a salmon see way more smelt in the course of its life than it would see shiners? Aren't shiners a warm water baitfish were as smelts are cold water?
champlain salmon now see more alewife than smelt. They also eat tiny white perch. The broad , silver side of a shiner would seem to be a great attractor ?
Dick
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I'm used to sewing smelt behind fly rods back home in maine, and since I canot get smelt around here I decided to give the shiners and a dodger a shot this past week, trolled for about 5 minutes until line was ripping out. Landed a a 19" salmon. Went five for five in 4 hours.
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;D Congratulations! You make me feel guilty. The 38 degree water has kept me away from trolling for salmon? 78 degrees today should change that soon. Off to Champlain next week. If I'm by myself I'll probably troll shiners on one and two colors of lead? Hope I do as well as you did?
Dick
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I'm used to sewing smelt behind fly rods back home in maine, and since I canot get smelt around here I decided to give the shiners and a dodger a shot this past week, trolled for about 5 minutes until line was ripping out. Landed a a 19" salmon. Went five for five in 4 hours.
[/quoteAre you sewing the shiners on so they do a slooooow role behind the dodger?
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??? ::) Joe I grew up in Maine using smelt with a slow roll! Using my method the shiners will stay alive and swim straight up (no roll??).
Check shiner at side of boat. If it spins, take it off and replace. A spinning shiner or a speed over 2 mph will lead to a massive line twist?
Dick
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I realize what your saying dick but sewn on properly they are supposed to do a slow roll. What's the point of sewing them on if they're not going to do a slow roll. People on here complain that they don't stay alive if you sew them on. They're not supposed to!! Sewing a baits lips shut and running a needle through its anus won't keep it alive. Lol I've seen guys line up smelt that are pre-rigged on leaders chilling in a cooler so the don't have to fumble around and sew one on every time they got a hit. It looks to me that with your method they are being sewn on but you're not putting a bend in them. Why not just hook them through both lips and troll under 2 mph. That's the speed you're supposed to troll live bait anyway right? My question was if the bait is supposed to do a slow roll behind a dodger or not.
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Joe! You have to do what you think is best? I've just found that arkansas shiners live a long time and are much cheaper than smelt (if you can fins smelt). Shiners will live and swim for a half hour of more. The hook out the rear is there because that's where the salmon will bite first?
We check out shiners every half hour and replace shiners that are spinning or dead. Sewing is time consuming. I can rig one of my shiners in 30 seconds. At one time on Winni I went to the expense of buying smelt. By noon half of them were dead? For the morning we trolled both shiners and smelt. Seemed odd but we netted 20 salmon but only 3 had taken a smelt? No question about Champlain because I can't use smelt??
This method works great for bass and pike (little bigger wire hook). For warm water fish I only hook the shiner through both lips.
I have a bait sewing needle next me right now. I only use it to clean my finger nails or rig tail hooks in plastic worms?
Dick
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Disregard my pm Dick. I thought I may have written something to offend you and that you may have responded negatively. Then I realized it was not on the Ma thread. Lol my bad
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Joe, No problem. Wish you lots of luck whether you fish live bait or hard stuff. Spring is almost here?
Dick
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I'm used to sewing smelt behind fly rods back home in maine, and since I canot get smelt around here I decided to give the shiners and a dodger a shot this past week, trolled for about 5 minutes until line was ripping out. Landed a a 19" salmon. Went five for five in 4 hours.
[/quoteAre you sewing the shiners on so they do a slooooow role behind the dodger?
Joe, I sewed them the same way I do smelt with two hooks, back hook looped in the side just aft the girls and back through again on the side out the rear end, front hook right down the top of the nose twice. Didn't get any tangles from the roll, run a swivel on both sides of the dodger and shouldn't be an issue.
-Joe
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Thanks
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Minnies are all we use , size 6 eagleclaw 84J thru the nose.........can't get much easier then that! We even use them the same way on lead core..
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Minnies are all we use , size 6 eagleclaw 84J thru the nose.........can't get much easier then that! We even use them the same way on lead core..
Do you hook them through both jaws or just upper jaw?
Dick
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Hi, I'm new to this forum but have been active on the ice fishing forum. Can anyone describe what Arkansas shiners are? Do they go by another name? I've been using a type of minnow called "hunts" and they are great for salmon. I find them to handily outfish emerald shiners.
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Do you hook them through both jaws or just upper jaw?
Dick
I hook mine threw nose same as him but use a double hook stinger rig.. two hooks one up one down... snelled with black bird Saber tooth hooks size 12.. you can get these threw the fishes nose very easilly friends find hemos help if your fingers are not perfect or eye sight is bad to thread them on hook.. here is a link to the hooks I use.. I don't know if two hook are legal or not were your at but we can use two here ..so be aware of that..
https://www.fishusa.com/product/Blackbird-Sabretooth-Premium-Hooks-by-Redwing-Tackle
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Hi, I'm new to this forum but have been active on the ice fishing forum. Can anyone describe what Arkansas shiners are? Do they go by another name? I've been using a type of minnow called "hunts" and they are great for salmon. I find them to handily outfish emerald shiners.
These are standard shiners at bait shops in New England. I'm pretty sure they are just golden shiners that are very silver when they are small?
Dick
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??? Boondox? Can only use single hook in NH.
Dick
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??? Boondox? Can only use single hook in NH.
Dick
Michigan guy sorry.. but this may help you if you read below.. for single hook fishing ..
First method:
You got a sewing needle and a thimble use that to thread the bait threw nose and then tie hook on and hook like a crappie minnow in back.. above lateral line behind dorsal fin is for hook placement.. on emerald shiners I put the hook threw the nostril which is two dots on top of the head in front of eyes just be hind lips .. push needle threw the skull of the bait so it holds better. Dont poke it in the brain killing it you want live bait so it swims.. but be aware this first method the bait when it dies tends to spin or death roll that's why I suggest secound method which follows but same hook and needle placements. As above..
Secound method::
if you got bait rigging flOSS you can get at bass pro.Com you could with a single hook make it swim straight by threadING floss threw nose holes.. then tie the floss in over the leader with two over hand knots.. then place single hook in back of bait trim up floss so less visable.
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Hi, I'm new to this forum but have been active on the ice fishing forum. Can anyone describe what Arkansas shiners are? Do they go by another name? I've been using a type of minnow called "hunts" and they are great for salmon. I find them to handily outfish emerald shiners.
Lingcod ... where do you find your "hunts"? Most shops around here don't carry them, but they are the top bait for ice fishing for salmon.
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??? someone post a photo of a Hunts shiner. Never heard of it?
Dick
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Hunts = Big fathead or perch bait (~3 inches or bigger)
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::) ??? The only perch bait I know of is a little skinny fellow from Jericho??
Dcik
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Just imagine me, but bulked up a little. then you've got a hunt. ;)
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Lingcod ... where do you find your "hunts"? Most shops around here don't carry them, but they are the top bait for ice fishing for salmon.
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Hi Crayfish, I buy hunts at Island Bait in Grand Isle. A small baitshop 2 blocks in from Rt. 2, turn at The Island Hub. Dockside Bait on Rt. 2 , mainland before the Sandbar, has them too, at times. All fish go for them!
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Thanks, good to know! I had heard that Island Bait has them, but have never been there. I also heard that the bait shop right next to Lake Carmi had them this past winter, but you aren't supposed to use them on Carmi ... only on Champlain.
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Island Bait has shiners & hunts pretty much all year. Good place to go when other shops are out. Tight lines!