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My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: porkpiehat on Apr 14, 2022, 09:13 PM

Title: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: porkpiehat on Apr 14, 2022, 09:13 PM
I always assumed that a dodger would increase drag and bring my rig up on the water column. This past weekend I was drifting a good 2mph with the wind and I have to assume I was hitting bottom because on each of three passes I lost my gear in 80-120 fow with leadcore and a dodger and smelt.

Either I kept hitting giant lake trout or I was hitting bottom with 8 colors or lead core which shouldn't have been that deep. thoughts?
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: porkpiehat on Apr 14, 2022, 09:14 PM
three consecutive passes this happened and I wasn't going over any discernable humps
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: fishinjohn on Apr 15, 2022, 04:10 AM
In my experience I wouldn't think the Dodger would drive your gear deeper by any means... and with 8 colors of lead out you certainly arent smacking bottom at 80 fow.... INTERSTING
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: filetandrelease on Apr 15, 2022, 04:51 AM
 
 How were you calculating your speed and # test is your leader line , you should notice the difference between fish and bottom
 
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: Mac Attack on Apr 15, 2022, 08:38 AM
https://www.fishusa.com/Fish-Hawk-TD-Digital-AtDepth-Water-Temp-Gauge (https://www.fishusa.com/Fish-Hawk-TD-Digital-AtDepth-Water-Temp-Gauge)
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 15, 2022, 10:06 AM
Ive used them with leadcore and have had some success.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: zwiggles on Apr 15, 2022, 11:58 AM
When I troll at 2mph with lead core and dodger/blade in line my pole is already basically fully loaded, and there is zero chance I could catch bottom in 50 ft of water at 8 colors. I would suspect you were drifting slower then you suspected , and it was snagging bottom.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: porkpiehat on Apr 15, 2022, 12:47 PM

 How were you calculating your speed and # test is your leader line , you should notice the difference between fish and bottom

5ft per color at 2mph. It was quite windy so I was just drifting and using the trolling motor to control boat position.

Trolling for lakers in open water often feels like snagging bottom lol
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: Jethro on Apr 15, 2022, 01:11 PM
I agree with Zwiggles, I'd be surprised if you could get to 50 fow even with 20 colors and a dodger at a constant troll of 2mph. But if you make some swings and circles your terminal tackle would drop quick. If anything a dodger would not make it go deeper (while moving) but the added drag would make it fish much higher in the water column. But stop moving forward and it would drop pretty fast.

Leadcore is always an interesting topic, in as far as how deep it fishes. I'm of the belief that there are so many factors it's very difficult to be accurate at all, especially the more line you let out. It may say on the package it sinks at 5-7 feet per color, but IMHO the added drag is a huge factor the more line you fish. The more line, the more drag. 1-3 colors it might sink 6 feet per color, 5-7 colors it may go to 5 feet per color, 7-9 colors it might only sink 4 feet per color. And of course there are a lot of other factors- what your terminal tackle is, the density of the water, how aerated the water is, how much debris is on the surface, the angle of your rod, how fast you troll and probably a whole lot more things.

At one time, before I had riggers, I had a huge mooching setup with 20 colors of lead and 500 yards of backing. I don't believe I could get to 50 feet deep with that setup unless I stopped moving. In the summertime I would drag over 50 fow with all that lead and half the backing out and never hook bottom. Not actually convinced I'd get 50 feet deep with 100 colors of lead trolling flatfish.

Nowadays I don't typically fish anymore than 3 colors of lead, and even that irks me. Nothing worse than having 8 colors out and no idea you have a 10" fish on the line. Then you go to change your presentation and wonder how long you've been dragging that fish and even worse- where did I catch it? That's a data point you'll never get back.

 
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: Jethro on Apr 15, 2022, 01:17 PM
5ft per color at 2mph. It was quite windy so I was just drifting and using the trolling motor to control boat position.

Trolling for lakers in open water often feels like snagging bottom lol

You posted while I was typing. This explains a lot. If you were drifting you were less so trolling and more so vertical jigging. When you're letting the wind push you, the wind also pushes the water quite a bit, certainly at the surface, so you kinda get a net zero troll speed. At the very least it increases the inaccuracy of how deep lead core fishes.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: porkpiehat on Apr 15, 2022, 01:20 PM
I agree with Zwiggles, I'd be surprised if you could get to 50 fow even with 20 colors and a dodger at a constant troll of 2mph. But if you make some swings and circles your terminal tackle would drop quick. If anything a dodger would not make it go deeper (while moving) but the added drag would make it fish much higher in the water column. But stop moving forward and it would drop pretty fast.

Leadcore is always an interesting topic, in as far as how deep it fishes. I'm of the belief that there are so many factors it's very difficult to be accurate at all, especially the more line you let out. It may say on the package it sinks at 5-7 feet per color, but IMHO the added drag is a huge factor the more line you fish. The more line, the more drag. 1-3 colors it might sink 6 feet per color, 5-7 colors it may go to 5 feet per color, 7-9 colors it might only sink 4 feet per color. And of course there are a lot of other factors- what your terminal tackle is, the density of the water, how aerated the water is, how much debris is on the surface, the angle of your rod, how fast you troll and probably a whole lot more things.

At one time, before I had riggers, I had a huge mooching setup with 20 colors of lead and 500 yards of backing. I don't believe I could get to 50 feet deep with that setup unless I stopped moving. In the summertime I would drag over 50 fow with all that lead and half the backing out and never hook bottom. Not actually convinced I'd get 50 feet deep with 100 colors of lead trolling flatfish.

Nowadays I don't typically fish anymore than 3 colors of lead, and even that irks me. Nothing worse than having 8 colors out and no idea you have a 10" fish on the line. Then you go to change your presentation and wonder how long you've been dragging that fish and even worse- where did I catch it? That's a data point you'll never get back.

I agree re: leadcore. I all but retired it last year in favor of fly line and downriggers, but then I remembered my best year of salmon fishing was all on leadcore, early spring, relatively deep.

I'm sticking with the dodger and dead smelt approach. It looks too good not to hit
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: zwiggles on Apr 15, 2022, 01:25 PM
You posted while I was typing. This explains a lot. If you were drifting you were less so trolling and more so vertical jigging. When you're letting the wind push you, the wind also pushes the water quite a bit, certainly at the surface, so you kinda get a net zero troll speed. At the very least it increases the inaccuracy of how deep lead core fishes.

This ^

Itís a brutally effective technique in the summer too. I have stopped the boat for doubles on more then a few occasions to then find a lake trout grabbed the lead core as it sank to the bottom, or right after you reel up the line.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: zwiggles on Apr 15, 2022, 01:27 PM
I also agree with Jethro, I hate running lead when it gets past 6 colors. I would much rather use 1-3 colors behind a rigger to get to anything more then 30 ft down. They old school brands also run much higher in the water column then you would think at 2.0 or above.

The fish hawk Mac posted will get you all that info if you donít snap it off too :)
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: porkpiehat on Apr 15, 2022, 01:28 PM
https://www.fishusa.com/Fish-Hawk-TD-Digital-AtDepth-Water-Temp-Gauge (https://www.fishusa.com/Fish-Hawk-TD-Digital-AtDepth-Water-Temp-Gauge)

You know I've had two of these units and neither of them worked properly, which was a shame
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: Jethro on Apr 15, 2022, 03:16 PM
You know I've had two of these units and neither of them worked properly, which was a shame

Oh wow, they aren't cheap either. You'd think they would work well!
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 15, 2022, 08:51 PM
Oh wow, they aren't cheap either. You'd think they would work well!

Nope they are weird like that.  Even the expensive one.  Gotta have one to troll in those Lake O currents.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: filetandrelease on Apr 16, 2022, 05:11 AM
5ft per color at 2mph. It was quite windy so I was just drifting and using the trolling motor to control boat position.

Trolling for lakers in open water often feels like snagging bottom lol
yes they are like reeling up a boot full of water unless you get  some better ones in the teens or better ,😉 try up sizing your leader
 These days itís leadcore for walleyes for. Me  , 😃
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: gotagetm on Apr 16, 2022, 09:55 AM
Same here Fred ,lead lead lead on Erie is accounts for probably 70 percent of our eyes there when trolling
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: fishinjohn on Apr 16, 2022, 02:45 PM
yes they are like reeling up a boot full of water unless you get  some better ones in the teens or better ,😉 try up sizing your leader
 These days itís leadcore for walleyes for. Me  , 😃
I'm a fan leadcore also!!
I upgraded to suffix advanced... love the option to have less line out and achieve a deeper depth with each color
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 17, 2022, 02:34 PM
Also a leadcore fan here.  Run a lot of segmented setups.  2 colors on one, 4 colors, 5 and 7.  Also run the suffix advance leadcore.  Gets deep but isnt that durable.
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: filetandrelease on Apr 17, 2022, 06:22 PM

 Iíve never run Suffix , Iíve run tuff line , Iíve been running mason the last several year holds up very well ,
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: gotagetm on Apr 17, 2022, 06:25 PM
I run the suffix advanced for few years now it's been good for me
Title: Re: trolling lead core with a dodger
Post by: lowaccord66 on Apr 17, 2022, 07:07 PM
Iíve never run Suffix , Iíve run tuff line , Iíve been running mason the last several year holds up very well ,

Always wanted to try the micro.