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My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: SHaRPS on May 15, 2019, 03:18 PM

Title: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 15, 2019, 03:18 PM
Just wondering what your opinions are on this scenario -

You catch a bass on a large jerk bait with 3 trebles. Tail treble is in fishes mouth but the middle and head treble are across the gill plate. First hook you take out is the tail end hook that was in the mouth. Then second treble is the middle one. If you at that point only saw 1 hook being removed from the gill plate, would you call that a foul hooked fish?
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 15, 2019, 03:20 PM
2 responses from the other topic -

meandcuznalfy - Yes at that point I believe it would be considered foul hooked.

zwiggles - I would say it’s not foul hooked if it’s hooked in the mouth.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: rgfixit on May 15, 2019, 04:35 PM
I have to ask....what's the point? Are you dealing with some rules or something?

Rg
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Mac Attack on May 15, 2019, 05:11 PM
Who cares.
First, bass season doesn't open till first Saturday in June.
Second, they are considered an invasive species and should be killed.


 8)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: meandcuznalfy on May 15, 2019, 05:17 PM
Yes there is a hook in the mouth, but according to your scenario the only hook I see is the one in the gill plate. That would be a foul hooked fish. Now had I seen all the hooks in the fish it would not be considered foul hooked, as I would have saw the hooks in the mouth.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Raquettedacker on May 15, 2019, 05:22 PM
Where's Snagger when you need him?    8)
Different in every state.
Bass on tournament trail if the bass are trying to take it and close to mouth counts . If in side or tail not...     JMO....
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: rgfixit on May 15, 2019, 05:32 PM
Now now......let's not fall off the edge of the world here.

You know....I don't think there's walleye in Florida....Hmmmm!

Rg
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: rgfixit on May 15, 2019, 05:32 PM
So...this is about tournament fishing?

Rg
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: zwiggles on May 15, 2019, 06:09 PM
Rg, I think it’s about opinions. I think he just presented a hypothetical scenario to promote some friendly banter.

If I saw a green carp with only a hook in the gill plate I think I’d call it snagged.

That being said I can’t imagine a scenario where I would see it with only that hook in it the way you presented it. Unless I was approaching the guy in another tourney boat, and only saw the “tail end” of the hooks being pulled. In that case I would have seen him fooling with the other hooks to remove them, and would have then called it legal when he told me what happened (after I had asked).

If I was a partner with the guy in the boat I surely would have seen the other hooks when it was landed.

So I guess I still think if it was hooked in the lip, it’s not fouled.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: rgfixit on May 15, 2019, 06:48 PM
Well, in that case....I don't care how many hooks it has in it. I fly fish a lot and figure that if I can get my fly back.......it's caught. Same would apply with any other type of fishing.

I was just curious.
Rg
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: fishinjohn on May 15, 2019, 07:13 PM
Rg, I think it’s about opinions. I think he just presented a hypothetical scenario to promote some friendly banter.
I'm guessing he brought this here for more people's opinions.... This came up on the ND walleye record being denied due to evidence it was "supposedly" a foul hooked fish
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: hunts2long on May 15, 2019, 08:14 PM
Had it not been a record fish, "who would even care about it". I am pretty sure none of us are going to be foul hooking any records in the near future. Go fish, do what is legal and sleep at night. You will feel better in the morning....h2l
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: rgfixit on May 16, 2019, 02:26 AM
I'm guessing he brought this here for more people's opinions.... This came up on the ND walleye record being denied due to evidence it was "supposedly" a foul hooked fish

Gotcha! Thanks. Gotta have some strict rules for that kind of thing or some dirtbag would find a way of cheating. Had to be a tough call though. I'd hate to be one of the people making the decision.

Getting ready to go "hook" a couple any way I can. 👍

Rg
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: swnoel on May 16, 2019, 04:52 AM
Its pretty clear you should be turning yourself into the authorities and begging forgiveness... ;)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Roccus on May 16, 2019, 06:33 AM
Snagged fish/foul hooked is a fish that has not voluntarily taken a bait into it's mouth, in your scenario, the fish was hooked in the mouth, as well as other parts of the body, in order for the hook to be inside the fishes mouth it had to bite the bait, in the ensuing struggle the fish became entangled in the remaining hooks...its pretty simple, as long as the rear hook was inside the mouth and not outside or along it.

I might ad, I've actually seen this exact scenario many times, I remove the "foul" hooks first for my and the fishes safety, not the hook in the mouth.. I actually had it happen this morning with a 20 lb class  striper.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: fishinjohn on May 16, 2019, 01:07 PM
its pretty simple, as long as the rear hook was inside the mouth and not outside or along it.


I've caught plenty of fish on cranks where the front hooks are in mouth and rear hooks are buried in the outside of the gill plate
Just saying
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 16, 2019, 09:18 PM
I posted this to get some action on this board.

RG- This is a forum for discussion. That's the point.  Just looking for an opinion and to bring this place alive... success I'd say.

Mac - I care that's why I asked. I never mentioned a state this occurred in so how do you just presume the bass season is closed and that no one cares. For the record bass season never closes in my state.

Zwiggles, fishinjohn , meandcuzalfy, you are spot on. Just a hypothetical question is all this was, never mentioned a bass tourney,just looking for opinions based on the scenario I presented. Thank you three for reading the question and answering accordingly.

Roccuus- so have I that's why I started this topic to begin with. It WAS related to the walleye record. I don't know the guy and don't care about his record. Your response was the most respectful to the original question I asked so thank you.

Just trying to pick your brain people not make this a why and who did it post. Yes or no is justifying.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 16, 2019, 09:20 PM
I've caught plenty of fish on cranks where the front hooks are in mouth and rear hooks are buried in the outside of the gill plate
Just saying

Spot on. That's why I asked. Maybe people don't run cranks, jerks, or swimbaits... 3 hook lures do exist and funky things happen with them.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: meandcuznalfy on May 16, 2019, 10:09 PM
Spot on. That's why I asked. Maybe people don't run cranks, jerks, or swimbaits... 3 hook lures do exist and funky things happen with them.
You are spot on. Although I own cranks and jerks I prefer to run jigs.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Jethro on May 17, 2019, 06:55 AM
If it's got any one of the lures' hooks in it's mouth, it's not foul hooked, pretty simple if you ask me.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: filetandrelease on May 17, 2019, 07:17 AM
Well I fish walleyes often , now I’m shore casting floating sticks , and very aggressive
Eye will slash at a stick  bait so hard many times they are hooked in the side of the face or under the jaw ,   my retrieve is so slow many times the lure is only down a 1’ over 3-5 FOW
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 17, 2019, 09:14 AM
Well I fish walleyes often , now I’m shore casting floating sticks , and very aggressive
Eye will slash at a stick  bait so hard many times they are hooked in the side of the face or under the jaw ,   my retrieve is so slow many times the lure is only down a 1’ over 3-5 FOW

Exactly.

My opinion is this and you can agree or disagree with it - If a fish makes the attempt to hit a lure or bait and you accidentally "snag" it when reacting to the bite, it should not be considered a true snag.

Here is a definition that I found that also implies to my opinion.

Snagging, also known as snag fishing, snatching, snatch fishing, jagging (Australia), or foul hooking, is a method of fishing that entails catching a fish using hooks without the fish having to take the bait with their mouth.

Have you ever fished for bluefish in a schooling blitz? If you have you know that 75% of those fish get hooked on the side of the face because they strike so viciously, especially top water.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: filetandrelease on May 17, 2019, 09:26 AM

Sharps I agree completely ,  I have friends that fish bass tournaments and we have had this very discussion, with the same results
 I fished blues just once when I worked in NYC omg it was a friggen hoot and they(BF) we’re insane ,
 I’m not judging this man with the trophy eye as I didn’t witness the catch
   
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: meandcuznalfy on May 17, 2019, 10:48 AM
Sharps, I agree with that. There's a big difference in intentionally snagging and foul hooking an agressive fish slamming a bait.  I found Idaho's definition of snagging.

Snagging: Taking or attempting to take a fish by use of a
hook or lure in any manner or method other than enticing
or attracting a fish to strike with, and become hooked in, its
mouth or jaw. Game fish cannot be harvested unless hooked in
the mouth or jaw. Snag fishing is illegal except where allowed
by special rule. Snagging of unprotected nongame fish species is
permitted.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: slipperybob on May 17, 2019, 11:55 AM
That fish tried to tail slap my lure and got hooked... ;D

I had nothing to do with that.  :o
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: lowaccord66 on May 17, 2019, 12:26 PM
Sharps I agree completely ,  I have friends that fish bass tournaments and we have had this very discussion, with the same results
 I fished blues just once when I worked in NYC omg it was a friggen hoot and they(BF) we’re insane ,
 I’m not judging this man with the trophy eye as I didn’t witness the catch
 

Your boyz told me you like that special spoon during ice season!   ::)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: jperch on May 17, 2019, 12:40 PM
It just depends on which treble was the first to hook the fish.  Remove them from the fish in the opposite order, easy! ::) ::)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Jethro on May 17, 2019, 12:58 PM
Exactly.

My opinion is this and you can agree or disagree with it - If a fish makes the attempt to hit a lure or bait and you accidentally "snag" it when reacting to the bite, it should not be considered a true snag.

Oh, I get it now. Yes, I agree completely, that shouldn't be a snag.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 17, 2019, 01:58 PM
Your boyz told me you like that special spoon during ice season!   ::)

Jon - was this for me or filetandrelease?
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: filetandrelease on May 17, 2019, 02:26 PM
Jon - was this for me or filetandrelease?
I believe it was meant for me , but I’m not sure which bait he is referring to ,
 ice fishing fishing can’t remember 1 being fouled as they are chasing vertically, and I don’t  use sink pipe , far as horizontally from the boat ,  I have fouled some eyes  with bucktails and blades in deeper water , I’m not afraid to admit it happens occasionally
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 17, 2019, 02:42 PM
I do a lot of vertical jigging for fluke and seabass and I have also hooked a bunch on the body. If a fluke is chasing a drifted jig and you sweep down and then up fast at the same time it strikes, it will be hooked just about anywhere with a sharp hook.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: lowaccord66 on May 17, 2019, 09:35 PM
Ya the sink jig Fred...haha!
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: Fishermantim on May 20, 2019, 10:56 AM
You fish with a lure with 2 or 3 treble hooks.

Fish grabs the lure and is hooked in the mouth by the tail hook, fish thrashes about as fish are known to do, and fish imbeds the 2nd and/or 3rd hook somewhere else on it's body....Isn't that what multiple treble hooks are supposed to do????

A foul hooked fish is a fish that is hooked anywhere else but it's mouth!

If there is any rule to the contrary, then it probably means that treble (and multiple treble) hooks are not acceptable for that state or derby.

Personally, I remove most of my trebles because they tend to do so much more damage to fish than a single hook.
I'm not advocating that trebles be banned, as that would be idiotic. I'm saying that I choose not to use them.

SO...logically if a lure has 2 or more trebles, and one is hooked in the mouth, then regardless of where the others end up that fish is NOT foul hooked.
(You can say it is, but that's a personal decision.)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: lowaccord66 on May 22, 2019, 05:49 AM
Fly fishing surprisingly you deal with this a lot fishing droppers.  Hook a fish on the tag fly.  The point fly snags the fish somewhere near the tail during the fight...tag fly pops out and you have a snagged fish...
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on May 22, 2019, 08:03 AM
Fly fishing surprisingly you deal with this a lot fishing droppers.  Hook a fish on the tag fly.  The point fly snags the fish somewhere near the tail during the fight...tag fly pops out and you have a snagged fish...

Also another great example!
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: meandcuznalfy on May 22, 2019, 08:51 AM
Happens with single hooks also.
Down through a nostril.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rRSmH9b0/KIMG0257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRSmH9b0)
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: lowaccord66 on May 22, 2019, 10:05 AM
Also another great example!

For me if I am harvesting trout...I follow the law and release foul hooked fish.

Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: seamonkey84 on Jun 06, 2019, 03:24 PM
Fly fishing surprisingly you deal with this a lot fishing droppers.  Hook a fish on the tag fly.  The point fly snags the fish somewhere near the tail during the fight...tag fly pops out and you have a snagged fish...
I’ve had that happen several times. I now always try to have more space between the two flies whenever possible, more than the length of the average fish for that area.
Title: Re: Foul hooked or not?
Post by: SHaRPS on Jun 07, 2019, 09:10 AM
I’ve had that happen several times. I now always try to have more space between the two flies whenever possible, more than the length of the average fish for that area.

I see what you did here. Its like using a bigger lure to target larger fish except you are now targeting larger fish for snagging.

Haha! Just kidding!