ONEIDA LAKE DIEHARDS THREAD...

[Hardwater2]

Unfortunately federal law trump's state law and not matter what when they take it federal all state charges will be dropped as Federal law gives them that right.. weather you like it or not that's how it works

Depending on their treaty it might go beyond Oneida’s waters as well.
https://amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/7236368001

[reeleyz]

This seems like a big story.  I have not seen any coverage of it in the local media which is surprising to me.  It certainly is a nasty image.

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/when-this-is-closed-it-should-be-close-to-everybody-fisherman-frustrated-by-lack-of-rule-enforcement-at-scriba-creek/

[reeleyz]

Interesting reading.

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/court-of-appeals/2005/2005-04990.html

This one is specific to the St. Regis. It sounds like they only have rights to unregulated fishing on their reservation and the adjacent rivers.

https://semspub.epa.gov/work/02/141613.pdf

I would like to know where to get a copy of the "1796 Treaty with the Seven Nations of Canada"

[Hardwater2]

Reeleyz-
I’d like to read that if you find anything on the 1796 treaty. Please post. I found this article from 2018.
https://www.oneidaindiannation.com/fishing-for-life/

[joefish1]

http://www.tuscaroras.com/index.php/1796-treaty-with-the-seven-nations-of-canada

[reeleyz]

http://portal.treatysigners.org/us/Treaties%20pdf/Seven%20Nations%201796.pdf

And here is another one that includes the same wording. It has several treaties. It seems like there has to be more to the 1796 Treaty with the Seven Nations of Canada?

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-Y4_IN2_11-1c227893bfbe1da6dd96b6883fd0205b/pdf/GOVPUB-Y4_IN2_11-1c227893bfbe1da6dd96b6883fd0205b.pdf

The Treaty with the Chippewa has specific wording that retains their right to hunting and fishing on the ceded lands.

"It is agreed that the said Indian nations shall retain the privilege of hunting and fishing on the lands given and ceded as
above, so long as the same shall remain the property of the United States"

[Fishin-Mission]

Just wondering if the Native Americans are using traditional implements to spear the Walleye or if they are using modern metal spear heads. Also are they wearing modern chest waders or what ever the use back in 1796. If it is traditional then they should be using the techniques that were used in 1796 not our modern spear/fishing equipment. I understand the Native Americans have treaty rights, but I believe they should be limited to the hand made equipment that was used when the treaty was written back in 1796, not modern equipment manufactured today.

[Hardwater2]

I’m curious,, has this practice ever happened before on Oneida Lake? By the Oneidas, or other tribes. I’ve always wondered this since the reservation is adjacent and “they” assuming it’s “their” fishing grounds. When the state changed the walleye limit to 5 instead of 3 this was the main concern that I had. In conjunction with the Native American fishing rights,, this can do some damage pretty quickly. If the nets come out,, it’s over.

[Perch-Pirate]

Just wondering if the Native Americans are using traditional implements to spear the Walleye or if they are using modern metal spear heads. Also are they wearing modern chest waders or what ever the use back in 1796. If it is traditional then they should be using the techniques that were used in 1796 not our modern spear/fishing equipment. I understand the Native Americans have treaty rights, but I believe they should be limited to the hand made equipment that was used when the treaty was written back in 1796, not modern equipment manufactured today.

Modern gear. And you really never need to enter the water. You can grab them with your hands. Or sharpen a stick easily.
This guys had all modern gear…

[Perch-Pirate]

I’m curious,, has this practice ever happened before on Oneida Lake? By the Oneidas, or other tribes. I’ve always wondered this since the reservation is adjacent and “they” assuming it’s “their” fishing grounds. When the state changed the walleye limit to 5 instead of 3 this was the main concern that I had. In conjunction with the Native American fishing rights,, this can do some damage pretty quickly. If the nets come out,, it’s over.

There was no walleye when the Oneidas used to spear/club the fish after they pushed the salmon and trout into traps. Someone posted a great article above about it.
And as I have said before, if they get the nets out….every single walleye in Scriba creek is gone. You could literally catch every single one in a gill net. It would be incredibly easy. Not even sure why these guys are messing with spears. Dip nets would be far easier…

[Perch-Pirate]

Meeting of the minds…

[PeterCos]

From what I can glean from the Treaties (Good job all in finding those citations) these particular Mohawks that have been engaging in this
practice on the Scriba and other Oneida Lake feeder streams, are totally outside of any rights of treaty. As I said in my earlier post, they are not on any traditional Mohawk ceded lands. They should be considered outside agitators of any standing treaty with the appropriate tribes of the lands in question and therefore in conflict with both NYS and the Federal government. In my opinion it would be beholding of the Federal government not to question the right of NY in any further action against, if such practices continue by these particular Mohawks, by reason of their own recognized treaty which does not allow this particular activity i.e spear fishing spawning Walleye on Scriba Creek, in the town of Constantia. There should be a reasonable penalty to insure an end to this activity. 
 

[Perch-Pirate]

Peter,
I hope you are right….unfortunately our Federal government has been very hesitant to take action against any particular group lately.

[Hardwater2]

Great info everyone. Found this on line. Recently posted today.
https://www.newyorkupstate.com/outdoors/2022/04/native-anglers-spear-walleye-near-oneida-lake-spawn-site-launching-fight-over-indigenous-fishing-rights.html?outputType=amp

[Perch-Pirate]

You guys will enjoy this one….
https://www.srmt-nsn.gov/news/2022/srmt-non-member-fishing-permit-reminder

You’ve got to be kidding me!!!