all winter w/no minnows so gona try a tank in the basement this summer

[Mac Attack]

Also, a darker tank environment will lower stress and reduce ammonia levels resulting in healthier and livelier baitfish.

[charlys1954]

Like I said with the barrel being blue I could not see the minnows to catch them. Saw a video of one guy painting tank white so I did, mistake I think. I do have big items in it so they can hide and my basement is totally dark 24/7 no lights except I go down each day to check for dead ones. Lights on maybe 5 min/day

You have any idea if the paint chips are harmful, they are tiny small enough they can swallow them.

[Mac Attack]

I understood why you did it, but that's not the answer to your problem.
Get a larger dip net.
Half the diameter of the drum wide and tall too so they don't go over.

https://www.amazon.com/TAAM-Proffesional-Handle-Coarse-Aquarium/dp/B0002DGPDG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2A1CEEF3IK9OR&keywords=large+aquarium+net&qid=1569761982&s=gateway&sprefix=large+aquarium+%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/RUNATURE-Collapsable-Aluminum-Saltwater-Freshwater/dp/B07JVT89FT/ref=sr_1_31?dchild=1&keywords=large+minnow+net&qid=1569762374&s=gateway&sr=8-31


Minnows, especially emeralds, need a very low stress environment.
A nd like you stated, foreign mater like paint isn't a good idea.
However, if you do want to paint it there are approved paints for ponds and aquariums that are approved for aquatic life.

I've kept them like you are trying in the past and did a LOT of experimenting.
I'm not trying to argue with you, only trying to help.
Here's a link to some info on my old setups -

https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/index.php?topic=1019.msg662078#msg662078

Good luck.
Mac

[charlys1954]

Not arguing here either. My update post was all about the painting of the barrel, and if the flaking paint will kill the minnows. I used a cheap Walmart spray paint and let the barrel sun air dry before/after painting. I may just empty the barrel and try to remove the paint, if not possible I'll just put a big trash bag inside if they make them that big.

You have a nice elaborate setup, you evidently use way more minnows than I do if you had 1,000. I would be lucky to actually use 50-75 thru the winter and that would be if we have ice 2 months. Last year I got out less than 10 times

 I'm trying to keep cost down as low as I can , can't spend $20+ on a big net. Just trying to cheaply make something where I can hold a few minnows thru the winter when the bait shops don't have them.

[abishop]

Had one of those heavy cast iron concrete sinks, Had it for years finally got rid of it,  now I wish I would of kept it cause that would of been perfect to store a few minners.

[charlys1954]

Update on trying to keep minnows alive in my basement.

I've come to the conclusion its mostly all about water temp on how many die. My results is its no matter what you do its mainly about how cold your water is.

I kept a daily data sheet since my start in Aug. I kept track on what I bought and daily dead count. All summer and early fall my water temp was warm, upper 60's to lower 60's and eventually in time they all would die. No matter what I had in the tank on average I lost 5-10% of the count daily. Ex: if I had 50 in the take I lost 2-5 daily.

Oct 27th I paid for 2 doz bass/ 2 doz crappie, the bait shop owner gave me a ton extra, I counted 153 all together probably to many for my tank. The 50 gallon tank had a big DIY 5 gallon bucket bio filter and a big aerator stone. I lost minnows daily, by Nov 25th I only had 8 left. By then the temp was steadily below 60 in the 50's. Since the temp has been in the mid to low 50's I've lost 1 minnow since Nov 25th to present.

In another 50g tank I also had large minnows(5-7") I caught in the creek. Those the warm water temp did not seem to bother as much, death rate was way lower just 1-2 a month.

For next summer I am gona try to find something(cheao) to keep water in 50's. Maybe a water fountain cooling system or maybe ice. My fridge makes about 10lb+ ice/day.

[Mac Attack]

Update on trying to keep minnows alive in my basement.

I've come to the conclusion its mostly all about water temp on how many die. My results is its no matter what you do its mainly about how cold your water is.

For next summer I am gona try to find something(cheao) to keep water in 50's. Maybe a water fountain cooling system or maybe ice. My fridge makes about 10lb+ ice/day.

Like I said, the ice will shock them.
Of course feeding it into your bio filter slowly might ease the pain.
Make sure there's no chlorine in the ice water.

Here is what I was going to do.
Seal up an old chest freezer with aquarium sealer (silicone).
Then convert it into a refrigerated bait tank.
Very easy on the power cost.
Here's a link on how to convert the freezer into a fridge -

https://johnlvs2run.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/chest-fridge-conversion/#more-1061

And the lid keep the water inside and keeps the minnows in the dark.
Lower stress rate.

Good luck.
Keep us updated on how you do.


Here's another link I had on bait tanks -

https://www.customlivewells.com/

[charlys1954]

Using a freezer is a great idea but getting a large or medium freezer is not really a option for me I have a very narrow stairs to basement. A apartment size is about the only size I could get down in my basement. The ones I've seen have electrical wire/controls inside, would not be very safe that close to water and  they don't hold a lot of water maybe 20-30 gallons.

You have tons of experience with minnow I have very little. Cooling the water down is about my only option. I don't know what experiences you have with adding ice but in my many years of ice fishing I've always added ice to minnow bucket with little problems. I'd buy 1-2 dozen minnows and go fishing, when I'd drill a hole I'd scoop up and add it to the minnow bucket, let it melt, and add more. I'd do that 2-3 times to get the minnow used to the ice cold water. I very seldom lost any doing that.

The only problem I see is chlorine in the ice. I just got off the phone with Sure Life Better Bait. The Rep said the chlorine will be immediately removed as the ice melts as long as I have better bait in the tank.

[Mac Attack]

Put the freezer in your garage.
That's where my food freezer is.
Once you seal up the inside water isn't an issue.
You could even paint the inside with epoxy afterwards if you are nervous.

Using ice while out ice fishing -
The ice obviously has no chlorine.
And the temp difference between the bait bucket and the ice is not so much - lesser stress from shock by changing the temp too quickly.
We would drill a hole in the ice with the auger, but not clear thru, and dump our bait bucket into the hole.
Our huts were kept very warm - lol

When I had my tank in the garage I tried ice.
It didn't work.
Always killed fish.
Chlorine kills fish - period!!!
It doesn't off-gas quickly enough before it kills the fish.
Sorry.

I have raised fish since I was a kid and have had many dozens of tanks over the years.
Both fresh and salt water.
Once I had a saltwater system in my basement with over 1000 gallons in the tanks and filter sumps.
My son studied marine biology.
And I did some research (behind the scenes) at a few Aquariums around the US and Canada.
I have discussed fish filtration and the keeping of fish with some pretty good experts.

You are correct with the temperature.
Emeralds need low temps to keep them.
The lower the better.
35-40 degrees works best.
It lowers their metabolism too.
They require less food and generate less waste, lowering the load on your filtration system.
Go speak to some bait guys that have been doing it for a long time.

You can buy a tank chiller but they are costly to run.
I did this once and is why I was going to go to the freezer.
The freezer is the most cost effective way to do it.
I will be doing this at my place on Lake Erie when I retire in 21.

Have fun.

[charlys1954]

Put the freezer in your garage.
That's where my food freezer is.
Once you seal up the inside water isn't an issue.
You could even paint the inside with epoxy afterwards if you are nervous.

I do not have a garage, I do not have room for a freezer anywhere except the basement and as I said I could only get a small 3-5 cubic foot apartment size freezer down the stairs to the basement. And as I said, those small apartment freezer have the controls and wires inside the freezer "where the water would be" which you can not seal up they are exposed with vents and would be right next to the water level. Go look at this type of freezer and you might be able to understand, ones I've seen the controls are not on the outside.

Using ice while out ice fishing -
The ice obviously has no chlorine.
And the temp difference between the bait bucket and the ice is not so much - lesser stress from shock by changing the temp too quickly.
We would drill a hole in the ice with the auger, but not clear thru, and dump our bait bucket into the hole.
Our huts were kept very warm - lol

There is a big difference between the bucket water and the ice, 20 or more degrees difference.. When I could find them to buy right before going ice fishing the water temp. was what ever the bait shop kept it, I've tested it and its around 60 to mid 50's. After I'm done adding lake ice the temp drops down 20+ degrees close to mid 30's so there's a big difference in the water temp before and after adding ice. If done to fast it would stun a few of them, but most of the time they would come out of it.

When I had my tank in the garage I tried ice.
It didn't work.
Always killed fish.
Chlorine kills fish - period!!!
It doesn't off-gas quickly enough before it kills the fish.
Sorry.

 Yes Chlorine kills fish. But did you have any Better Bait or other chlorine remover in the tank, you must not have or it would have removed the chlorine and not harmed the fish.
 The Rep at Sure Life said if there is Better Bait in the tank, when ice is added and starts melting. The chlorine in the melted ice is immediately removed by Better Bait additive. He's the expert on minnow water care and chlorine removal so he would know.

[Mac Attack]

Didn't know you don't have a garage.
Sorry.

Yup, I used a chlorine and chloramine removal chemical.
It actually neutralized it.
Chlorine will off-gas and air bubbles help to speed it up.
You can set a pale of water out and the chlorine will off-gas in like 24-48 hrs.
Use that water to make your ice.
Chloramine won't off-gas.
Has to be neutralized or removed.
Here at my place in Cheektowaga near the airport they use chlorine.

Try those blue ice packs.
They worked for me and you don't have to worry about the chlorine.
Also, I think they last longer than straight ice.
I used them in the summer when transporting minnows.

Again, good luck and keep us posted.

[SHaRPS]

I have a 20 gallon tank for 150 or less shiners and a 50 gallon tank for anything over that. I have kept 400 shiners in there at a time and the only thing that would kill them is the filtration intake. Plug it up and I was good to go. This is my 20 gallon with 10 dozen. I also used the chlorine stabilizer prior to adding the fish. No Food and only run the filter every other day. Air stones run the whole time. This is in my basement.

[Mac Attack]

Very cool.

But Lake Erie emeralds are no where near as hardy as normal typical shiners.

Thanks.

[charlys1954]

tks for the input Mac and Sharp.

This last summer the tank in my basement stayed on average 66°. So I did some test on dropping the temp using ice and here's the results.
I ran 3 identical test on 1/2 gallon of water in a plastic pitcher and all ended the same.

1/2 gallon of 66° water dropped to 55° with exactly 4oz ice added
I added 2oz more of ice and the temp dropped to 50°
Did this test 3 times with same results.

This test means it would take 1/2lb(8oz) ice to drop 1 gallon at 66° to 55° and 3/4lb(12oz) ice to drop 1 gallon at 66° to 50°.
Applying that to 40gal of water I get this.
20lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 55°
30lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 50°

 No idea how high the temp would go up after 24hrs so on the next day it may or may not be back to 66°.

My ice maker makes about 10lb/24hrs and I'm not gona buy ice so in reality the ice cool down method will probably not be much of a option.
Since I can't make enough ice I'll either have to drop the water down to 20gal or only be able to drop 40 gallons down 5° from 66°to 61°
10lb ice drops 20gal at 66° to 55°
10lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 61°

10lb of ice is 1.25 gallons so if I went to a 20gal tank I would be adding 1.25 gallons of chlorinated water.  That added water would be de-chlorinated by the chlorine remover already in the tank.

[charlys1954]

Yup, I used a chlorine and chloramine removal chemical.
It actually neutralized it.

I'm a little confused about what you said in your last 2 post. This one you say adding ice worked did not kill your minnows and in the one before you said "When I had my tank in the garage I tried ice. It didn't work. Always killed fish."

My water has just chlorine in it, I called the water treatment plant and they say they do not use chloramine