WAY "Off Topic"- Fast Food Workers

[bwalleye]

I realize you are making a joke here bWalleye, but this is part of the problem. There are too many out there in the "it's everyone and everything Else's fault but mine" generations. Unfortunately, this really caught hold with my generation (35). There is very little personal responsibility anymore. I am trying very hard to teach this to my children, but they are all to aware of laws and I will admit, this sticks in the back of my head when thinking of appropriate "punishments". When we all make a decision and take action, there are consequences, some are good and some are bad. Kids need to have a dedicated understanding of consequences and the personal responsibility for those consequences.

Mike

Yes it was a joke........our parents blamed it on rock and roll etc etc

The real answere, I don't know.  My youngest is 15.  His brother and sister went through similar "phases"  They are coming around more.  I have tried to instill values. life's lessons etc.  We have been very involved with school activities ( as time allows).  My wife became a stay at home mom and we cinched up the budget beltline  to be more available to our youngest.  Frustrating does not even begin to describe what we are going through.  He has to take summer school this year just to keep up.  After a few days of school his teacher asked him why in the world are you here?  His answer---"I didn't do my work"! 

This is a difficult subject shared by most if not all parents today.  Advice from some "pros" is at times diametrically opposed to what another "pro" states. 

Most kids who get detentions etc, just laugh them off-they go- but they just laugh them off.  When I got a detention in school I was mortified.  They hand detentions out like gold stars or something.  Get one for looking at your teach wrong....get one for turning around in your seat...get one for farting..I kid you not.  Doesn't mean a thing to them. 

I think most kids are influenced more by their peers than their parents with teachers a close second (inversely or perversely as the case may be).  When teachers react inappropriately to situations the kids love it and capitalize on it.  I have spoken with many of my son' s teachers and their ideas are just    I have come to the conclusion that they want the boys to behave and act like girls--and I'm not being sexiest here--  boys are wired differently and should be handled differently. My son got suspended for three days for bringing a spent .30-06 casing to school that he thought was a cool whistle.  "Oh my, gun stuff"  I got to take my shotgun to school to shoot trap for part of life experience day or whatever they called it.

Once when my son threatened to call social services because he didn't get his way we started dialing it for him all the while explaining that the word NO was perfectly within OUR legal rights.

Our house has always been THE house to hang out at and we listen.  TV shows have an influence, music does (or at least reflects  how the kids see things)  the words to many of these new songs are shocking to say the least, content and values.  Shows are violent, movies are violent, human life is put on par with that of a cockroach.  Very difficult job being a parent. 

But this is not a new problem.....just different.  My oldest son says "I'll never let my kid get away with ______.  Funny hearing that from him.

Some of my kid's friends get paid for doing things around the house....what we used to call chores.  What does that teach?  It teaches my child that he should be getting paid to do the dishes, feed the dog, clean up his OWN mess.  That is hard to contend with--not impossible--just hard.

OK, It's really really late and I'm just rambling here...  Deciding to hit the post button or not......but I think it may be a segway to more discussion. 

To those teachers who's ideas are not      my hat's off to you.  A very difficult job with your hand tied with some really nutty rules.  The nuttier they get the worse the kids get.

Just my two and half cents.  But I may have to delete this when I read it afresh.

[sbfpa_Mike]

NO need to delete!! Everything you have stated is truth. George SR stated publicly the exact problem we face, "a kinder, gentler nation." There is nothing really kind and gentle about living and earning a living. Kids can be kids and still live in a strict environment. I guess I am rambling myself, but the "experts" seem to make a bigger mess of things. I guess I will have to come back to this when I have more time to think.

Mike

[Coldfeet]

If you really look at todays kids compared to what we went through things are really not that diffrent. As a teen I can remember screwing around just as much with both school and work. Pushing the limit so to speak. Although a few things have changed in these new times and respect is one. Our generation (I am 51) said Mr. and Mrs  to anyone over the age of 30 and to the boss on our jobs. If not and our parents were their look out when you got home. A lot of the problems we see in the kids today should be pointed directly at the parents. If the parent(s) does not install respect for others, and for the kids to respet themselves why then would the kids do it on their own? Parents can come up with thousands of excuses to blame others and wonder where the kids get that from? When the kids learn some of those excuses the parent sees through it and blames school, or says well thats the way it is now days. Sorry to say they need to learn to take blame for their mistakes. Most parents also see a kid get a job and allow the kid to blow off days, show up late, quit because they are not making enough money. or give the kid ideas of how to get out of work while they are being paid the "let someone else do it attitude." I have seen this in many kids now days and the parent backs the kid why is this? If the kid gets fired because of bad work habits then the money flow to the kid stops well parents just give in and hand the money to the kid so they can go enjoy themselves on Friday and Saturday night. Wrong!! When they loose the job all Money should end there and that point don't give the kid a dime. Some parents use the wonderfull excuse "What am I supposed  to do If I punish my kids Social Services will take them away because I am cruel to them" what a lame excuse that is. No wonder the kids of today have ten thousand excuses and counting.

[fishryc]

  I’ll add no accountability or responsibility for ones actions, everything is warm and fuzzy as seen through rose colored glasses, and, everything has to be “fair” for everyone all of the time in addition o the “Kinder, gentler” comments.  We’re creating a bunch of people with mush for backbones that think they can do as they please without consequence and that all will be great no matter what they do. And no one is accountable anymore. “It wasn’t little LeRoy’s fault that he holds up banks, he came from a broken home”, Johnny is not a bully, he has ADHD”, “little Suzie is a junkie because her mother worked full time and was not there enough” etc., etc, etc.
  Bull Sh**. Everyone knows right from wrong. You cannot tell me that all the tens of  thousands (maybe hundreds) of kids “diagnosed” with ADHD really have ADHD. 25 years ago, we had good kids, and a few bad kids. The majority of “bad” kids became good kids too, and not with Ritallin or other dope. It was through learning. By “learning”, I mean being accountable for your actions. You took a few lickin’s, you got “grounded” (grounded for real, too. Like prison; not sent to your room full of toys, TV, and electronics), and at the most severe, you were sent to boarding school under lockdown. And it somehow worked, too. No doped up zombie kids back then, just kids that understood that they were learning the ways of society, right and wrong, and that you will be accountable for your actions for the rest of your life.
 And on the “fairness” issue, I cannot believe how much whining goes on at my workplace among 40 year old adults just because someone appears to have gotten one more cookie than them. It’s laughable and ridiculous. I’ll give one ludicrous example. A while back we reached a safety milestone at my plant, and were rewarded with a breakfast of fruits, bagels, donuts, juice, etc. A couple months later, we did the same. Our reward was 5 dollars worth of lottery tickets, juice and donuts, plus a chance to win 25 dollars by shooting a goal into a hockey net that the Safety Foreman brought in. Here was the complaint: two persons were on vacation that week, so they only received the lotteries. The food was gone, and the hockey stuff taken home. They had no problem; but someone else complained that when they were on vacation for the breakfast deal on the last milestone, they got nothing. There fore, those two people should have gotten nothing also. No tickets because they were on vacation. Talk about kindergarten logic.

Well, I gotta stop now too, I’m starting to boil…………..
 

[ifishhi]

i find it tough to be a parent I'm 38 with 2 boy's 2 and 5 i stopped working 4 years ago to try to install a consistent way of life for them. my wife and i bang heads a lot I'm 10years older so... but we do pretty good.  people tell me how polite and well behaved they are. i concur with the peer pressure my oldest tries to pull off somethings with some kids and not others so i feel thats where i come in and not let him hang with them those kids thier parents don't care about them so why would they care about mine. i know a lot can't keep one parent home and it hard when someone else watches your kids, sometimes what can you do. i see a lot how things change just hearing my wife and stuff she does. for example she will curse when she speaks to her mom and for me if i ever talked like that i would hit the wall before I'm done. for some things the only way a kid will get it is through fear of a spanking then most of the time the threat is enough, although i know society does not like that i believe it's no ones place to tell someone how to raise your kids it 's hard enough w/o having your hands tied. when i went to school we would get paddled by the school when you were bad.

[scansy]

I can't stand parents who let their kids get away with crap - here's a sad story.

My son was about 9 or 10.  There is a man in our neighborhood who had a stroke and has had many problems since then.  He is certainly mentally challenged.  But he does have a car that he is very proud of.  My son and two other boys (brothers) vandalized his car one day.  Not sure how they spent an hour screwing around in the neighborhood without getting stopped, but that's another story.  They did about $3000 worth of damage.  When we found out about it, my wife went to my sons room and confronted him.  We knew he was involved, but of course he denied it.  My wife yelled at him to stop lying and put her fist through the wall.  All of a sudden, my son was babbling the whole story.  Fear can be a great motivator.

(Of course, I took note of the fact my wife can put her fist through the wall and my behavior has improved too. )

My son is 13 now, about 5'11" (easily 7" or so taller than his mom), and he is still afraid of my wife.  She raises her hand and he runs.  It comes in handy sometimes.

The sad part of the story is that the parents of the other boys didn't seem to care.  They said the right things about being tough on their sons when it happened, but we learned afterward that they were going around saying their boys didn't do anything and that it was all my son.  What a load of crap.  Without going into a long story (maybe I already have), we know their boys were involved.  My wife and I were trying to do the right thing with our son, but not them.  Their sons were little angels.  Of course, their sons have done many other bad things in the neighborhood without getting into trouble.  Their sons will end up in jail someday.  Our son is not allowed to hang out with them since that day.

[scansy]

i find it tough to be a parent .....

Yeah, it's the toughest thing you can ever do.... if you want to do it right.  It's also the most important thing you will ever do.  And it takes 20 years or more.  And there is no instruction book.

[bwalleye]

Been there Scansy.  "Oh, not my son blah blah blah"

[sbfpa_Mike]

I know this is off topic of the off topic. But, I love it in "A Christmas Story" when Ralphie tells his Mom that Flick taught him the swear words and you can hear through the phone Flick gettin his butt beat by his Mom. That is the way it should be.

Mike

[fishryc]

I know this is off topic of the off topic. But, I love it in "A Christmas Story" when Ralphie tells his Mom that Flick taught him the swear words and you can hear through the phone Flick gettin his butt beat by his Mom. That is the way it should be.

Mike

Everyone that I grew up with in the 1960's and 1970's took a licking as needed. Do you know what else they have in common: They're well adjusted, productive, family oriented members of society.

[walleyechaser]

Simple solution:  Kids need their a$$ beat when they get out of line.  Now if you spank them you can get sent to jail.
Communities are raising kids instead of parents.  But its kind of a double edged sword.  Cost of living is so high both parents have to work.  I am fortunate enough that my wife works part time at night so the kids rarely need child care.   If there is a way no matter how remote to have a parent stay at home it is ideal.   

I grew up with respect being paramount if I disrespected anyone my dad was all over me.  I'm going to instill that value in both of my kids.  Hopefully I won't end up in jail because one of my boys got out of line and got smacked.  If I do then so be it.
I'm not changing because some liberal is telling me its harmful to spank and discipline my children.   I survived most kids I grew up with survived and are pretty decent people today.  I'm only 30 so I could be classified in the pansy generation but I feel I'm the exception partly because my dad was such a hard a$$.   I thank him today for it.

Man whats it gonna be like in another 20 years?  It scares me.

[fishryc]

Simple solution:  Kids need their a$$ beat when they get out of line.  Now if you spank them you can get sent to jail.

 My one friend has a threat that he follows up his spankings with. When the 13 year old says he's going to call the police, school officials, etc, he says to to the kid "Make sure that you call me once a week from the shelter or foster home!!!.
 So far, the kid has not made any calls!!!

[Pikeguy]

 My one friend has a threat that he follows up his spankings with. When the 13 year old says he's going to call the police, school officials, etc, he says to to the kid "Make sure that you call me once a week from the shelter or foster home!!!.
 So far, the kid has not made any calls!!!

Good point! Most kids know just how good they have it.

[fishryc]

Bruised.

Well adjusted.

But bruised.

I say we gotta start smacking these kids like our parents did.
Look how well it worked on me Scott.
'Course, you met my son Jeff.


Mac

 Great example, Mac!! (And I mean that).
   Look at what is going on in schools these days. Back when we were there, and when every teacher had an intimidating paddle of some sort standing in the corner (as a  highly visible reminder of what "consequences" were), we worried about getting caught smoking in the lavs, about being late for class, about "cutting" class, etc. Now the kids worry about getting caught with a gun, about having their stash of crack being detected or getting stabbed and losing that stash to a rival dealer, or about getting caught ........ you name it. If, when they were much younger and grew up with the paddle from 1st grade on, I feel that they would not have progressed to the points just mentioned. Support from the homefront would have been a great re-enforcer of "respect rules", but for those that did not get this, school was a good back up plan.
 I remember that, when in high school, you NEVER would cut Gym, (aka "Physical Education" these days) because of the vast array of paddling weapons available to the Gym Teacher (I mean "Phys-Ed Instructor"): Badmitten rackets, aluminum shank arrows from archery, canoe paddles from "Canoing Class" (Yep! we had that in our swimming pool!), ski poles from cross country skiing class, ping pong paddles, racket ball rackets, etc!!!.
 Kids would go into shell shock if they were subject to the guidelines of 1960's and 1970's schooling!!
Anyhoooo.......................

[Big Burk]

i am 14 and i am a really hard worker. and i have to do all the crappy jobs at work. but i still do it and dont complain. and for 14 minimum wage is plenty if you use it wisely. i hate having to re-do or clean up the messes that all the disrespectful people on the jobsites leave behind thinging that someone will clean it up, but life isnt always fair and sometimes it can be rough. i thank my parents for bringing me up with disceplen and rules.
but two years ago i got in trouble alot and my grades slipped (along with every other athletic skateboarder) in my class because he really was out to get us, one of my friends who i have known most my life has always been academically behind me just a little but we did basically the same work and he got 20% better on the assignment. then we would go together and do the report together and he would get a way better mark. so i stopped trying and still got the same crappy grades as i did befor when i tried. me and my three friends were deemed  " the fab four" (this teacher was totally in total admiration of himself) and we got treated unfair so we treated him unfair but last year i had a good teach and tried in school and i did just fine lost total respect for the teacher i had 2 years ago and still hate him till this day cause he would send the four of us into the hall and teach the class and give us grade 9 crap in grade 7 and for science we got the crapped kicked out of us cause we would wisper to each other while others were yelling accross the room so we would get the detention and seperate assignments, ect.