MyFishFinder Forum
My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: lowaccord66 on Jun 23, 2017, 06:22 PM
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I have a 1990 Evinrude 140, the looper...and have put about 1000 hours on it up to this season. Spent 1400 having carbs rebuilt, water pump, tstat, tune up ect...Went on to do 6 or 7 trips...roughly 100 nautical miles traveled and now I am back to rough starts...or as last Sunday went no start at all after an 8 mile run. Anyways...rather dismayed to see loose hose clamps on my fuel line so I fixed that...tested did a few runs before the hard starts came back. (I suspect more air was getting in)
Anyways the shame is this...I love the hull..its a 88 alumacraft 196 trophy and its great...4 stroke repower cost is massive...but I want fuel injection badly. Who's with me?
Anyone else out there hating on carbs and air bubbles lile I am?
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I was in the same boat ::). Years ago fell into a deal for a '94 Stratos with the same year Johnny. Everything looked pristine but lack of use had taken it's toll and within 2 years busted a ring. I should have had the thing rebuilt but they offered an Evinrude 2 years newer for about the same price of a repair. Did that and hated it. Slower (different lower unit), noisy, gas guzzling, hard starting, oil burning pile always leaving me uneasy about its reliability. Still loved the boat even though she shows some battle scars.
I always thought about if I could re-power with anything it would be a current model E-tec. My rig is an "in-betweener", hp sticker says 140. I don't think anyone (maybe Suzuki and that ain't happening) makes one of those any more. It's all 135s with the next step to 150. Late last year came across some ads on Craigslist for several 2016 E-tecs in various horsepowers, a few 200s and 150s and one lonely 135 HO. Owned by a ski team that had a promo deal with BRP, they got 'em for the season at a promo price and then they'd sell come September. Any profit went back to the club and some they lost a little on but still got the full use of a brand new motor every year.
I made the deal for less than half MSRP and the full 3 year warranty transfers. Couldn't be happier. Shop around maybe you'll fall into a deal like I did. Did I say I couldn't be happier? ;D I'm with you....
Good luck to you in your search!
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On my smaller boats I had 2 strokes which worked well but had to deal with oil and the smell and loading up some , then I was offered a very nice deal on a bigger boat with a verado and a pro kicker , quiet and smooth running , don't think I'll ever own another 2 stroke
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don't think I'll ever own another 2 stroke
X2
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Now you guys have me worried. Bought a new used Yamaha 4 stroke last summer but haven't really taken it out yet as my favorite lake is electric only. I guess I better get it out there and fire it up!
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In 2006 i upgraded to a 4 stroke EFI. Its awesome to go to the lake and never worry about whether the motors gonna start. Always start right up. It was well worth the investment for the piece of mind.
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far as i can see, ill be an OMC 2stroker for life. no injectors to foul either. strait up mix by me only. very few problems over the last 30+yrs.
I premix myself. No VRO. What I cant complain about is performance. I ran it last night and had no issues. Was doing 33-34 at 4500. Idle was a little high which suggests I have some air in the lines still....
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Now you guys have me worried. Bought a new used Yamaha 4 stroke last summer but haven't really taken it out yet as my favorite lake is electric only. I guess I better get it out there and fire it up!
The Yamaha 4-strokes are bullet proof.
Unless it's a string trimmer, I will NEVER buy another 2 stroke anything.
And before you know it, they won't even be available anymore.
So problem solved.
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The Yamaha 4-strokes are bullet proof.
Unless it's a string trimmer, I will NEVER buy another 2 stroke anything.
And before you know it, they won't even be available anymore.
So problem solved.
I found a used 2003 Yam 115 4 stroke and may check it out.
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I found a used 2003 Yam 115 4 stroke and may check it out.
Good luck
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Good luck
X2
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Good luck
Thanks guys. A friend of mine suggested I just het a new boat but I am in love with my hull. Big old alumacrafts are hard to find and I dont want to buy someone elses problems when I am nearly done fixing mine!
In other news I fixed my air leak for sure. Checked the bulb this morning...still primed from Sunday. Going to fish tonight!
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Thanks guys. A friend of mine suggested I just het a new boat but I am in love with my hull. Big old alumacrafts are hard to find and I dont want to buy someone elses problems when I am nearly done fixing mine!
In other news I fixed my air leak for sure. Checked the bulb this morning...still primed from Sunday. Going to fish tonight!
Glad to hear it! Always good when you get equipment working again!
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In other news I fixed my air leak for sure. Checked the bulb this morning...still primed from Sunday. Going to fish tonight!
Let me know how you make out tonight if you get out. I might go for a koke fix tomorrow.
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Let me know how you make out tonight if you get out. I might go for a koke fix tomorrow.
Will do. See if the evening feed continues. Line of storms just went through. Hopefully the last.
In the meantime a 2 stroke story... Buddy has 2016 Evunride 2 stroke FI. Hundred hours and the flywheel bolts sheared....ouch. not fun when brand new outboards tank.
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Will do. See if the evening feed continues. Line of storms just went through. Hopefully the last.
In the meantime a 2 stroke story... Buddy has 2016 Evunride 2 stroke FI. Hundred hours and the flywheel bolts sheared....ouch. not fun when brand new outboards tank.
Now that doesn't make me happy. On the other hand: A.) That's a warranty issue and B:) Why all the hatin' on 2 strokes?
Only 4 I ever ran was my Dad's 40 Honda. Nice motor and heads above the 35 Evinrude it replaced. That said, had a 25 Yamaha that was absolutely golden. Minimal maintenance and always a top performer. Even my mid 90's OMC motors, the 1994 120 was a good one till it popped a ring and the '96 130 was OK but never my favorite for a number of reasons the least of which was reliability. BTW, never had an issue with the VRO/oil injection thing, lotsa hoopla and misinformation around that. Both of the ones I had, already dated by at least 10 years never gave me a lick of trouble. Just sayin'.
We'll see how far this 2016 Etec gets me. Flywheel bolts shear? That sound like some kind of a sudden stoppage at high RPM. I don't know. This one is one of the quietest 2 bangers I've sat in front of, sips gas and oil and has everything I need. Believe me, if I start getting a bad feeling I can admit my mistakes (and they are my mistakes).
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Not sure what the cause was but it was a warranty job. I like that motor myself and have recently found a tohatsu 115 direct injection 2 stroke for 3gs that I am going to pursue.
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My weedwhacker is a 4-stroke, my outboard is a 2-stroke and I have never had an issue (knock on wood!). I'm a bit anal when it comes to yearly maintenance items, but she has been an absolute monster. I have a 2001 Nitro 288 Sport with a Mercury Nitro 200hp XR6. Researching this motor, it seems I own a bit of an odd duck, it is very difficult to find any info on Mercs branded as Nitro. The boat is just shy of 21' and she'll get to 60 mph in short order and slowly creep up after that. I run a Trophy Stainless Steel 24P, 4-blade prop and the motors runs at about 5500 rpm at WOT. Idles/trolls great, in reverse also when I chase Lakers. Love it. I've thought about the 4 strokes, but I will certainly not fix what isn't broken! Tight lines and have a safe summer!
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Ive resolved all of my issues. Fired up quickly this morning and ran great. I did a short run of about a mile and then trolled until 9am. Fired right up then. Didnt even need to idle up.
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oil injection is a scary thing on a 2 stroke. IMO i feel safer with my mixed gas. if oil is cut off at high speed that thing could be ruined before you shut it down. with an ingredient as important as that, it shouldnt be subject to mechanical failure.
no mercs and no 4strokes ;D
Only scary if you don't know how to maintain a system.....
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I rebuilt my trusty 1985 Johnson 30 a couple years ago. Hard to say how many hours it had on it. I bought it used for $600 in 1988.
I put about $500 in parts in it including water pump impeller and seals, lower unit bearings and seals, motor mounts, carb kit, fuel pump, complete ingnition replacement including pick ups, mounting plate, module and coils. Compression was in the high range of acceptable so I didn't have to crack the block open.
I even disassembled everything, cleaned and painted the whole thing and replaced the original decals. Fun project for an old tinkerer like me.
Starts cold 3rd pull every time, trolls down to nothing and pushes my boat along at 30 top end. Runs like a new motor.
I can't imagine what a shop would have charged to do what I did.
One thing I've learned is ...the bigger the motor....the bigger the problems and the more they cost to fix. I've had "2 footitis " several times in my life and somehow managed to talk myself out of buying a bigger boat every time. I'm my own best advisor ;D
Rg
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The Yamaha 4-strokes are bullet proof.
No Yamaha fuel injection is not bullet proof. Had a problem that I chased for four years that the computer said there wasn't anything wrong with the engine ( 40 HP Yamaha ) that a I finally found. A lot of these so called marine mech's are just glorified parts changers.
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I thought I found a good place to service my Yamaha if need be, but one of the two guys lied to me so I have my doubts. When I was in the market for a motor one of them said not to buy a Yamaha as it's hard to find parts for them. (Was trying to sell me a new Merc.) I had done some research before that and not only was that not true, but they are pretty much the same motors at the size I was looking at.
Once someone lies to me they lose all credibility.
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Oil injection is simply a pump.
A variable rate pump, but still simply a pump.
Same thing as the oil pump in a 4-stroke.
Also, nothing is actually "bullet proof".
Even an oar can suffer a bullet hole.
Mechanical equipment can, and will fail.
Want to avoid that, don't buy it.
Carry on.
;D
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bought my 1991 115 merc new, hope it never dies ;D to the opp, the small hoses under the cowling have failed on me with the new gas as well as new tank hoses collapsing internally separating
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bought my 1991 115 merc new, hope it never dies ;D to the opp, the small hoses under the cowling have failed on me with the new gas as well as new tank hoses collapsing internally separating
Yea, ethanol sux
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Yea, ethanol sux
It is the worst. I sold the folks that make stabil, enterprise software for their ERP...Even so I havent receiced the lifetime supply of stabil yet! :D
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buy ethanol free gas
ore money but less bs
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CT is lame Mack its hard to find. NY you seem to have more options.
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CT is lame Mack its hard to find. NY you seem to have more options.
It's still a pain to find and expensive.
Also, it's higher octane in a lot of cases.
But yea.
Oh yea, no "k".
;D
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The Lund I bought this summer has a 99 Suzuki 40. I remember thinking when I bought it how much quieter it was than my 98 Johnson 35, 3cyl 2 stroke. Last two times I was out all I could think was "I don't remember the engine being this noisy." Wondering if the sheen is wearing off and I'm starting to nit pick. I asked my autistic nephew, who is very noise sensitive and has a keen mind for weird details, and he said it was louder.
Seems to run the same except its a little rough at lower RPM after trolling and restarting. I don't want to be the neurotic boat owner/easy prey for my mechanic. Would there be a mechanical reason for this or way to test?
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Put new plugs in it, properly gapped of course.
Then fill the tank and add some fuel injector cleaner.
Then go for a boat ride.
No fishing.
No stopping.
Vary the RPM often and keep it up on plane.
Sounds like the cylinders and valves might be a little loaded up with carbon.
Hopefully your little boat ride will burn out some of the junk.
Oh yea, take out some nachos and beverages and definitely some music.
Enjoy the day,
Good luck
Mac
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Thanks for the advice. Fuel injector cleaner is fine with a carb?
I need to buy the shop manual for the motor I don't know anything about it other than it likes high octane gas.
Nachos seem complicated for a boat ride. Pringles and Swiss rolls for me (same on the ice, sub the beer for bourbon)
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Thanks for the advice. Fuel injector cleaner is fine with a carb?
I need to buy the shop manual for the motor I don't know anything about it other than it likes high octane gas.
Nachos seem complicated for a boat ride. Pringles and Swiss rolls for me (same on the ice, sub the beer for bourbon)
Fuel injector cleaner is almost same as carburetor cleaner.
Just want a solvent inside to help break down and dissolve any carbon deposits in the heads, valves, pistons, and rings.
Run it double strength for a tankful.
Good luck
Mac
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I think I still have a issue with air in the lines myself. I am suffering from hard starting when I first launch. Once warm starts and operation seems ok but coming off plane it breaks up and stalls. Can be very hard to start afterwards. Ive replaced the fuel line and primer. I suspect I need to reblock the oil feed line on the vro because the pervious owner didnt do the best job amd I suspect its sucking in some air. Primer bulb is getting a bit softer than normal during operation. Also the idle is sometimes normal othertimes elevated by roughly 500 rpms. Carbs were rebuilt this season. New water seperator and all new lines. Pickup in tank was claimed to be inspected. This is a 1990 140 looper. Occasionally it seems hard to actually prime...the bulb fills and gets stiff but getting fuel into the carbs seems difficult when warm. Although rare I read the loopers can suffer from vapor lock if hot.
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Thanks for the advice. Fuel injector cleaner is fine with a carb?
I need to buy the shop manual for the motor I don't know anything about it other than it likes high octane gas.
Nachos seem complicated for a boat ride. Pringles and Swiss rolls for me (same on the ice, sub the beer for bourbon)
@porkpiehat.
Try ebay at their half.com for the repair manual and Barns and noble and amazon learned about used books in college lol's
Side note cause its a 2 stroke thread..
Just picked up a panther jack mount for up to a 20 hp kicker 2 stroke only for 57.25 tax included any way there reg price was $180 and 70% off saved me some dough.. lol's there is another one in stock thinking of heading back to pick it up these are good for kicker motors like the 2.5 hp2 stroke kicker I got now.. any ways 54 +TX is worth it when they cost around 180 to 230 for the kicker mount.. I could make my money back easily lols.. now I need a steering linkage from the main yo kicker so I don't have to run back to steer when trolling..
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I think I still have a issue with air in the lines myself. I am suffering from hard starting when I first launch. Once warm starts and operation seems ok but coming off plane it breaks up and stalls. Can be very hard to start afterwards. Ive replaced the fuel line and primer. I suspect I need to reblock the oil feed line on the vro because the pervious owner didnt do the best job amd I suspect its sucking in some air. Primer bulb is getting a bit softer than normal during operation. Also the idle is sometimes normal othertimes elevated by roughly 500 rpms. Carbs were rebuilt this season. New water seperator and all new lines. Pickup in tank was claimed to be inspected. This is a 1990 140 looper. Occasionally it seems hard to actually prime...the bulb fills and gets stiff but getting fuel into the carbs seems difficult when warm. Although rare I read the loopers can suffer from vapor lock if hot.
Could be vaporizing fuel if engine running hot like t-Stat needs replacing again is it still peeing water when running? If not the impeller is installed incorrect?? See if you can locate a repair manual they give problem solving charts like high idle could be a crab gasket leak etc etc.. or even a bad head gasket or valve ?? Like not sealing but best to get manual and see what is first and cheapest to diagnose problems like a leak down test valves or even a compression test.. but you need manual for exact specs for the psi it should be since I don't got your manual or motor I could not tell you what they are..
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The factory plastic clamp on the inlet hose for oil into the VRO was leaking. I fixed it and was operational for a brief time before the startwr solenoid bit it. She spins but wont raise to engage the flywheel thankfully a replacement was 60 bones. Should help with the starts. From what I understand its important to spin those pretty quick to get them to fire.
Thanks for the response boondox. I had the tsat replaced and there is a solid stream through of water.
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The factory plastic clamp on the inlet hose for oil into the VRO was leaking. I fixed it and was operational for a brief time before the startwr solenoid bit it. She spins but wont raise to engage the flywheel thankfully a replacement was 60 bones. Should help with the starts. From what I understand its important to spin those pretty quick to get them to fire.
Thanks for the response boondox. I had the tsat replaced and there is a solid stream through of water.
Then it should be fine and not over heating like you were thinking earlier.. I would find the specks on motor and find out if the carbs are loose to the head like it's suckin air past the gasket for the carbs since you had a fresh rebuild.. also I would do a compression test to make sure the heads not leaking or a leak down test to make sure the valces are not leaking. Like a cracked reed valve that's what I would suspect since you had carbs rebuilt I would make sure to retoqure the carb to head bolts if a air leak ocurs it would me most likely there... cause it was just fixed also what type of gaskets were used in rebuild were they o-rings? That got reused? or paper that got double stacked ? Or even a plastic card that got reused and compressed like o-rings do? Cause you know your leaking air that's why you got high rpms it maybe not before carb it maybe after.. so just stuff to look into if continplating to do the compression test buy a leak down tester cause it is cheaper then buying a compression tester then a leak down tester.. leak down will do compression tests. Any how is the air in take box securely attached to the carb like a hose clamp that's loose maybe leaking air in ?? Look at all aspects..
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For leak down testers I get 30% off here at link below on orders over $75.00 you got to search for cupon codes threw google then add it to the cart I think you just got to sign up for a account to get the 30%off .. it not group on.. it is " retail me not " coupon code threw retail me not..
Any how see link for leak down tester..
https://m.advanceautoparts.com/p/proform-leakdown-tester-66839/10289794-P?searchTerm=Leakdown+tester (https://m.advanceautoparts.com/p/proform-leakdown-tester-66839/10289794-P?searchTerm=Leakdown+tester)
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By the way you can use carb cleaner to find vaccum leaks you spray surfaces like the gasket surface hoses etc .. if the idel drop like normal it is that spot if it stays high move on try to pin point the area... the spray from a can of carb cleaner will help pin point the area.. the fluid in carb cleaner is combustible like gas but is not harm full like water and the fluid plugs small air gaps.. just a suggestion to try to spray see if the idel drop as you soak spray it when you quit spraying the idel raises back up just a suggestion to try see if you can pin point the spot..
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Thanks man. I need to grab a new starter! All the testing has made the origional unit shot... Im shoping for a yamaha 90. The looper has been good to be but with the amount of time I spend fishing I have no business with carbs!
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Thanks man. I need to grab a new starter! All the testing has made the origional unit shot... Im shoping for a yamaha 90. The looper has been good to be but with the amount of time I spend fishing I have no business with carbs!
Is the new starter from new cause of hard starting from old starter ? Like takes lots of cranking to start it??I would have the head gasket checked if that's the case. Low compression causes hard starting and low compression can cause high idel from a air leak threw head gasket.. hopefully you get that yami 90 hp if any thing..
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Is the new starter from new cause of hard starting from old starter ? Like takes lots of cranking to start it??I would have the head gasket checked if that's the case. Low compression causes hard starting and low compression can cause high idel from a air leak threw head gasket.. hopefully you get that yami 90 hp if any thing..
I have my eyes open for the 90 or preferably the 115. Might be the headgaskets. Got it running yesterday ran great on plane, died coming off plane then hard to start.
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Check your pm box lol's.. is that what your looking for??
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Check your pm box lol's.. is that what your looking for??
Wow good eye! Yes that would do it!
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save the looper and have it rebuilt later on and sell it.. make some money back.. when you finally find a new motor.. lol's
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I need to try an external tank first. 8k is a decent deal for that yamaha but 10k gets a new 150 evinrude installed with guages. Puts me about 17k deep overall. Not bad for a 19'6" deep v.
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I need to try an external tank first. 8k is a decent deal for that yamaha but 10k gets a new 150 evinrude installed with guages. Puts me about 17k deep overall. Not bad for a 19'6" deep v.
Get the Yamaha.
WAY better motor.
I know......less HP.
Still a better motor.
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Get the Yamaha.
WAY better motor.
I know......less HP.
Still a better motor.
Hp is only relevant when the motor operates though right. I wouldnt do a 150 4 stroke because its much heavier than whats on there. Friends have suggested buying another boat but I dont want to sell what I have. I sell for a living so having to haggle with someone over something like that disintrests me.
Anyone here repower an older boat they loved?
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What size external tank you need cheap plastic or a good aluminum?? This 18 gal aluminum is the price of a cheap plastic tank even has a fuel level sending unit that's electric.. see link..
http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200104874_200104874?adv=false&cm_mmc=Google-pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoZTNBRCWARIsAOMZHmGr-W5-0cLEXyKVdwl-haYfPoq6omMSRCaAfnFs2JIDrEoZlFD0MKIaAnIfEALw_wcB&utm_campaign=RDS&utm_content=3490201&utm_medium=Fuel%20Transfer%20%2B%20Lubrication%20%26gt%3B%20Fuel%20Tanks%20%26gt%3B%20Auxiliary-Transfer%20Tanks&utm_source=Google_PLA (http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200104874_200104874?adv=false&cm_mmc=Google-pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoZTNBRCWARIsAOMZHmGr-W5-0cLEXyKVdwl-haYfPoq6omMSRCaAfnFs2JIDrEoZlFD0MKIaAnIfEALw_wcB&utm_campaign=RDS&utm_content=3490201&utm_medium=Fuel%20Transfer%20%2B%20Lubrication%20%26gt%3B%20Fuel%20Tanks%20%26gt%3B%20Auxiliary-Transfer%20Tanks&utm_source=Google_PLA)
Ya thank fully I have not had to repower our 79 sea nymph yet or rebuild it but they don't make them like they use to. It has a johson 25 hp we could go as big as a 70 hp in boats these size it not needed not like it's a bass boat racing from spot to spot.. just for waleye fishing a to b lol's
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Boondox you are the best at finding deals! I run a 30 gall internal now. 18 would do the trick and your right they dont build them like they used to. Mines a 89 alumacraft trophy 190. The looper served me for 3 seasons without issue. Probably 1000 plus hours of operation.
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Hp is only relevant when the motor operates though right. Absolutely!
I wouldn't do a 150 4 stroke because its much heavier than whats on there. The 4-strokes today are getting VERY close in weight to the old 2-strokes. But yea, I agree. I also think the 90 Yamaha would perform fine on your boat, with a 115 Yamaha just about right. IMHO
Friends have suggested buying another boat but I don't want to sell what I have. I sell for a living so having to haggle with someone over something like that disinterests me. Totally understand your feeling here.
Anyone here repower an older boat they loved? Yup - did it with a small 16' Mirrocraft. From a 20 HP 2-stroke Merc to a 25 HP 4-stroke Yamaha. Difference was night and day. The new Yamaha popped it up on plane in just seconds, where the old (tired) Merc labored. Loved that little tiller boat.
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I need to try an external tank first. 8k is a decent deal for that yamaha but 10k gets a new 150 evinrude installed with guages. Puts me about 17k deep overall. Not bad for a 19'6" deep v.
Did a little searching I would wait for the Norwalk boat show see if you can get a deal on a yamaha 115 or even a 90 at the show.. if not go get the evinrude if you feel it's worth it??
Found this wile searching it lists the msrp of the 115 yamaha as 11+k were the yamaha for 8 k not bad with 50 hours but what kind of hours were they did the guy break the motor in correctly etc etc.. that maybe why he's selling it for 8k so he can get a new 2018 for around 11k any how see my point?? Or a last year's model at close out pricing at the show?? Just stuff to think about don't let us pressure you cause better to think then just jump on something this expensive cause could cause bad decision.. that's why I lookwd up msrp on the yaMaha 115 it a little or 11k see it at link below by the way that's not the price of motor below but motor at link is a tad far to drive to get if you ask me..
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2017-yamaha-f115lb-102916606 (http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2017-yamaha-f115lb-102916606)
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me.
Anyone here repower an older boat they loved?
8) ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D
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8) ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D
Of course you did Lance!! The real question is how many?
:D
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I love the feedback guys. I am a hardcore fisherman but a boat googan if that makes sense. I find the cirrent outboard is making me more of a boat mechanic than I'd like to be.
Boondox thats a great point...take time, save more bacon and see what the show offers. Also with you on the used Yam with 50 hourrs. That guy would need to have a solid story as to why hes offing it.
Lance....you suck. I'd make an offer on that 90 anyday! Then again you didnt complain about a 8 mile trolling motor ride when the 140 quit....
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Definetly a tank pickup issue. Ran it today. As long as I kept the bulb firm it ran fine. After a while the idle would pick up, id check the bulb and it would be nearly empty. Slowly pumping it up kept things from dying. Now this was on a 8 mph lake so I never got on plane...I assume the issue with the pick up is worse when I am coming off plane.
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When's the last time you replaced the hose? See if you can get a replacement primer bulb and hose assembly and replace it.. you must have a pin hole air leak in the hose.. had same thing on ours cause of one of the connection points was wrong. Ours was leaking were the hose clamp for the motor fitting was.. and primer bulb would not stiffen up.. I am assumeing yours must have deteriorated?? usely fuel does this to rubber hoses.. let's hope a new hose assembly solves problem.. if not its a tank pick up in the tank.. at least now you know it's not the head gasket.. all the symptoms you said stalling, high idel , hard starting can be a bad head gasket and or a fuel fault that's why I say compression test before replace head gasket cause what I seen might be incorrect and is a fuel issue.. hopefully a new hose fixes the issue.. if not think of a staw that's got a Crack in it you go to suck your drink up and does not supply enough fluid get what I am saying? So if not hose it maybe the fuel pick up but I am assuming hose first off..
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Issue resolved...well sort of. I used the boat all weekend. As lomg as the tank is near full the pickup is happy and all works well. Got up to 39 on gps so not bad for a 19'6" boat.
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Issue resolved...well sort of. I used the boat all weekend. As lomg as the tank is near full the pickup is happy and all works well. Got up to 39 on gps so not bad for a 19'6" boat.
That's great.
So, what will do?
Replace the tank?
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That's great.
So, what will do?
Replace the tank?
I need to Mac, there are fine air bubbles still which occasionally causes a high idle. Contemplating replacing the 30 gal or just adding an external. I have room and it would be easy to hook up before the water seperator. (Although I hear some say an external doesnt really need the seperator.)
In any event, this is the outcome I wanted. 8k pays for a ton of fishing trips so Id rather leave it in the bank!
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(Although I hear some say an external doesnt really need the seperator.)
A water separator is cheap insurance.
With today's ethanol gas, the water needs to be dealt with.
I would run one.
I have one on my Lund and every Fall a small amount of water is trapped in it.
Water that would have gone through the motor.
I started using non-ethanol fuel this past summer and would normally be interested in the difference.
But I only just started using it, so there is probably water in the filter from the previous gas.
I'll let you know next year when I winterize it.
:D
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It is cheap and it and the lines are all brand new this year! Bust out another thousand! Sure!
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the ethynol gas destroys the rubber in the black bulbs ten times faster than the lines though ive had brand new lines separate within a months use. if you havent replaced the cheap bulb try that, the internal check valve might be malfunctioning in the bulb. another thing no one looks at is the tank vent getting blocked, vent line pinched, bug climbed up in there etc. though this gives you a no power when you give it gas. separated gas line is internal in the hose, you get gas, then no gas, wants to surge up and down.
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the ethynol gas destroys the rubber in the black bulbs ten times faster than the lines though ive had brand new lines separate within a months use. if you havent replaced the cheap bulb try that, the internal check valve might be malfunctioning in the bulb. another thing no one looks at is the tank vent getting blocked, vent line pinched, bug climbed up in there etc. though this gives you a no power when you give it gas. separated gas line is internal in the hose, you get gas, then no gas, wants to surge up and down.
You are right about the bulb. The line and bulb are less than a month old but those atwood bulbs kind of suck and I dont like the factory bands the use for clamps over some nice worm gear clamps.
I started researching new tanks...and ugh...thats a mission. Problem being sometimes I will use 20 gallons. Pretty large for an external tank.
I will jam some weedwacker line in the vent to be sure its 100%. I know it is venting but it doesnt hurt to be sure.
Other than that the looper is running as good as one would expect.
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How about pulling out the original tank, emptying it, cleaning it, sealing and pressure testing it, and installing a new pickup and sending unit?
Where are you located?
There's a boat guy out east of me, maybe out near Syracuse.
He did my buddy's aluminum boat for him.
Tore all the floor out, replaced rivets and patched holes in an aluminum hull.
My buddy tore it real bad up in Canada and didn't have insurance.
Anyway, this guy did a fantastic job and was VERY reasonable.
Calling the guy doesn't cost much.
Just a thought.
Let me know.
Mac
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How about pulling out the original tank, emptying it, cleaning it, sealing and pressure testing it, and installing a new pickup and sending unit?
Where are you located?
There's a boat guy out east of me, maybe out near Syracuse.
He did my buddy's aluminum boat for him.
Tore all the floor out, replaced rivets and patched holes in an aluminum hull.
My buddy tore it real bad up in Canada and didn't have insurance.
Anyway, this guy did a fantastic job and was VERY reasonable.
Calling the guy doesn't cost much.
Just a thought.
Let me know.
Mac
I like that idea too, especially a referral. I live in the Northwestern corner of CT. So it would be a ride but I'd consider it especially around the end of December which is when I normally done using it.
There are a few odds and ends Id have a guy like that fix that the previous owner could have done better.
The other thing, Mac, that is killing me is finding an enclosure for it. I fish for pike all the way until ice up really could take advantage of one. I have the original standup bimini that clips down to the windsheild it has zippers for the side curtains but it didn't come with them. Its pretty shredded. My buddy says buy one for a new alumcraft and we'll redo the snaps but idk. Custom maybe?
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi758.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx225%2Fjon006%2F20170628_200104.jpg&hash=ea3c7178dd35b37b4c2e52090917ac5c) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/jon006/media/20170628_200104.jpg.html)
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi758.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx225%2Fjon006%2F20170604_134658.jpg&hash=c7f99c17bf1c31a93a8f1df2d4c315df) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/jon006/media/20170604_134658.jpg.html)
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Nice ride.
Get a custom canvas guy to quote you on a decent (quality) enclosure for fishing.
If you were closer I could recommend a couple.
But I'm sure there are some near you.
Do NOT buy one for a specific boat and try to retrofit it.
It will cost you more and take a miracle to make it fit properly.
Have the canvas made to fit your boat.
Go around to the various boat dealers in your area.
And ask for the name and number of who does their canvas work.
Then go interview these people and ask to see some of their work.
Show them a photo or two of your boat and explain what you want.
And see what they suggest.
It will be worth your time and money.
Good canvas, if taken care of properly, will last a long time.
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Good suggestion I'll have to find a place. It would make it easier to get the wife and kid to join me tog fishing this fall!
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Jon, we got a kick-ass canvas place around here that has done all our previous canvas work, and some for other friends of mine too.
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Here's the place that repaired my buddy's hull
Watercraft Clinic also known as Sampson Marine
6311 Waters Rd.
Red Creek, NY 13143
315-754-0050
Ask for Clint
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I didn't read the whole thread... but... a common problem is the check valve in the fuel tank... it creates symptoms exactly like you describe...it looks like an elongated fitting but it actually has a check ball in it.. the E-10 eats the aluminum causing the valve to stick.. seen it many times.
run Star tron in any and all 2 stroke motors.. it'll save you a ton of grief...I've got 30 year old chain saws that have never had a carb rebuild..
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I do run startron or stabil. Thanks for the input Joe I will have to give it a look. Mac I will give that guy a call thank you! In other news I went to troll the other morning 41 degrees and it fired right up!
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I do run startron or stabil. Thanks for the input Joe I will have to give it a look. Mac I will give that guy a call thank you! In other news I went to troll the other morning 41 degrees and it fired right up!
most outboards don't even need them because the check valves in the primer ball keeps the line primed... they need them on inboards so the fuel doesn't siphon back from the carbs all the way to the tank... unfortunately they are a Coast guard requirement if someone actually looks during an inspection...
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Mac I will give that guy a call thank you!
My buddy said they did very good work, were really fast turnaround, and also reasonable priced for what he had done.
Tell them my buddy was Paul with the Polar Kraft they had to pull the floor out to fix the hull.
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I do run startron or stabil. Thanks for the input Joe I will have to give it a look. Mac I will give that guy a call thank you! In other news I went to troll the other morning 41 degrees and it fired right up!
You know you should not use stabil fuel treatment to store your boat right?? Stabil has alcohol in it that attracts water so stop useing it!! if you are when you store it the water turns to gum and vanish etc etc that's why people are buying ethonal free fuel for two strokes like ice augers cause it stores better.. threw out the year..
I bet your glad you did not call on that 4 stroke now!! Now that the motors working for sure at least you know something up with fuel now!! And you don't need a new motor..
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You have that right Boondox. Never use stabil for storage only during the season. (I sold the company that makes it, software so maybe I am biased lol) Very glad I didnt spend on a new outboard...for now. I got to 42 on gps fishing alone the other morning so I dont meed to go any faster. I am going to call the guy mac suggests and see about a new tank this winter. Maybe expand the compacity a bit.
Reliability has been solid enough that I think Ill fish tog season with it.
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You have that right Boondox. Never use stabil for storage only during the season. (I sold the company that makes it, software so maybe I am biased lol) Very glad I didnt spend on a new outboard...for now. I got to 42 on gps fishing alone the other morning so I dont meed to go any faster. I am going to call the guy mac suggests and see about a new tank this winter. Maybe expand the compacity a bit.
Reliability has been solid enough that I think Ill fish tog season with it.
You got it!! happy tog fishing !! Lols
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I read thru most of this thread but only saw passing mention of fuel lines. There is a known issue with ethanol and fuel lines and the havoc it creates. The inner liner collapses on many and will cause erratic symptoms that are hard to diagnose and will go into remission, only to reappear. May not be your problem but may help someone out.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/226390-ethanol-fuel-lines.html (http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/226390-ethanol-fuel-lines.html)
Another thought, would it be possible to connect a portable plastic tank temporarily just to eliminate that portion of the fuel system, should the problem recurr?
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Fuel lines were only touched briefly because they were replaced immediately! Im going to replace the tank as the mechanic that did the carbs said it ran fin on his external.
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Fuel lines were only touched briefly because they were replaced immediately! Im going to replace the tank as the mechanic that did the carbs said it ran fin on his external.
Could be simply the pickup in the old tank is gummed up.
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Could be simply the pickup in the old tank is gummed up.
Or cracked? if he run it on full tank no problems.. then when a little empty stall issues?? there is a reasonn.. problem keeping bulb primed etc etc .. sounds like a air suction issue weather the hose and bulb or fittings to motor or fuel tank or the fuel tank it's self is the problem.. all are possible causes so examine closely before just replacing tank is the best advise I can give but sounds like tank pick up tube maybe loose or broken.. some times the pic up tubes are part of fitting that comes out of tank like the tank bung screws in to the pick up tube then in to tank wich a lose fitting connection will leak air.. tightening up the fittings solves problem
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You know you should not use stabil fuel treatment to store your boat right?? Stabil has alcohol in it that attracts water so stop useing it!! if you are when you store it the water turns to gum and vanish etc etc that's why people are buying ethonal free fuel for two strokes like ice augers cause it stores better.. threw out the year..
I bet your glad you did not call on that 4 stroke now!! Now that the motors working for sure at least you know something up with fuel now!! And you don't need a new motor..
Marine sta-bil is alcohol free... read the label if you don't believe me....Star tron can stabilize fuel for up to 2 years....
Jon... check the pick up screen but odds are the check valve is bad... you can replace it with 3/8 or 1/4 MNPT fitting depending on your fuel hose size...
everyone hoots on E-10.... my mechanic days go back to leaded gasoline... and that stuff had it's share of problems too... trouble is most are too young or too old to remember... corn fuel is no angel... but we can live with it if we take a few precautions and are vigilant with our maintenance...
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Marine sta-bil is alcohol free... read the label if you don't believe me....Star tron can stabilize fuel for up to 2 years....
Boom!
Exactly.
I use Startron.
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Marine sta-bil is alcohol free... read the label if you don't believe me....Star tron can stabilize fuel for up to 2 years....
Jon... check the pick up screen but odds are the check valve is bad... you can replace it with 3/8 or 1/4 MNPT fitting depending on your fuel hose size...
everyone hoots on E-10.... my mechanic days go back to leaded gasoline... and that stuff had it's share of problems too... trouble is most are too young or too old to remember... corn fuel is no angel... but we can live with it if we take a few precautions and are vigilant with our maintenance...
Mineral spiris and red dye? the problem with that is most mineral spirits contain dentured alcohol in the form of acetone. .
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Marine sta-bil is alcohol free... read the label if you don't believe me....Star tron can stabilize fuel for up to 2 years....
Jon... check the pick up screen but odds are the check valve is bad... you can replace it with 3/8 or 1/4 MNPT fitting depending on your fuel hose size...
everyone hoots on E-10.... my mechanic days go back to leaded gasoline... and that stuff had it's share of problems too... trouble is most are too young or too old to remember... corn fuel is no angel... but we can live with it if we take a few precautions and are vigilant with our maintenance...
Will do Joe. I run 110 leaded in the car every once in a blue moon. Love the smell. Turbo cars love it.
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Mineral spiris and red dye? the problem with that is most mineral spirits contain dentured alcohol in the form of acetone. .
Sorry Boon.
Mineral spirits are petroleum based.
There is no denatured alcohol, or any form of alcohol, in mineral spirits.
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Sorry Boon.
Mineral spirits are petroleum based.
There is no denatured alcohol, or any form of alcohol, in mineral spirits.
So is stabil bud.. check the msds also know as a material safety data sheet there listed as same products..
hydrotreated light petrolem distillate ..
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So is stabil bud.. check the msds also know as a material safety data sheet there listed as same products..
hydrotreated light petrolem distillate ..
I know what an msds is boon
You're missing my point
You stated that mineral spirits had denatured alcohol in it and it doesn't.
Also, marine stabile and Startron do not have alcohol in them either.
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I have alcohol in me sometimes :D My hoses are holding up so far!
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I have alcohol in me sometimes :D My hoses are holding up so far!
:D
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Off to Champlain to do work tomorrow. Bigred and I will hunt inland sea monsters....boat has beem running great let it continue tomorrow.
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Off to Champlain to do work tomorrow. Bigred and I will hunt inland sea monsters....boat has beem running great let it continue tomorrow.
Please tell big bad Lance I said hello.
And good luck to both of you.
Mac
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Will do Mac (I am sure he's read this)!
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Will do Mac (I am sure he's read this)!
;)
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Time to go....I fired her up last night real quick. First turn of the key. Should be a good trip.
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Please tell big bad Lance I said hello.
And good luck to both of you.
Mac
Howdy MAC!!! ;D
here's a hint on how the trip went ;) (https://i.imgur.com/0rASiyBt.jpg)
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Howdy MAC!!! ;D
here's a hint on how the trip went ;) (https://i.imgur.com/0rASiyBt.jpg)
Glad you guys had fun.
Someday, I'll hook up with you for some fun when I'm up that way.
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Glad you guys had fun.
Someday, I'll hook up with you for some fun when I'm up that way.
Ill put a post up in Mass....as far as outboard operation goes...perfect. 26 miles of effortless running!
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as far as outboard operation goes...perfect. 26 miles of effortless running!
Awesome!
Glad to hear this.
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Awesome!
Glad to hear this.
Thanks Mac. Its an odd feeling trusting my own boat work but very satisfying. No one wants a 20 foot paper weight in the driveway.
Better though was the ipilot. Spot lock all day and the maximizer only went down to 3 bars!
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Ipilot rocks
I'll never be without one
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Ipilot rocks
I'll never be without one
Same. Had no idea what I was missing.
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Same. Had no idea what I was missing.
I have a Honda 8hp kicker on my little Lund.
It does 2/3 of the trolling work.
I supplement the Honda with my Terova.
The ipilot does the steering chores.
Allows us to stay on course while rigging and netting fish.
I added 2 more deep cycle batteries in parallel to the original 2, along with a 2nd on board charger for them.
Now I have 2X the trolling time.
Added about 200 pounds to the bow though. :D
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I had read about your setup Mac and ran 2 group 31's wired together for 12v but double the amp hours. 400 amp hours equals 10 hours at full tilt. So far ive done 7 hours at 1.8-2mph no issues. However the first time I went to lift the trailer with the batteries in
..I almost moved some guts around.
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I had read about your setup Mac and ran 2 group 31's wired together for 12v but double the amp hours. 400 amp hours equals 10 hours at full tilt. So far ive done 7 hours at 1.8-2mph no issues. However the first time I went to lift the trailer with the batteries in
..I almost moved some guts around.
Yea, I've got two 24's and two 27's (I think) up front.
I use the dolly to crank her up and down.
8)
Jeff and I have been looking to relocate 2 of the batteries back into the stern.
The bow rides too low and in rough water we get wet (actually Jeff - I have a windshield on my side ;D).
Maybe do it next spring before we head out for spring browns in Lake O.
We'll see.
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Question for y'all on kickers...I am using my 6hp tohatsu short shaft on the back of my lund. I've even had to raise it up a bit so that the tiller can ride up over the stern edge on sharper turns. it places the cavitation plate above the bottom of the stern, but I've been assuming its not a big deal as it's the secondary motor. Could this be contributing to the shakiness of the motor? It's a single cylinder so that's most of the problem but otherwise the setup works.
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I had a single cylinder evinrude 5-stroke
Vibrated like crazy
The cavitation plate needs to be below the hull slightly if you are using it as a primary motor and are running it at high rpm and want the best performance
Trolling is low speed and it's not so important.
Still, you need the front side of the prop clear so it can pull water thru it cleanly.
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Still, you need the front side of the prop clear so it can pull water thru it cleanly.
Can you explain this last piece? how would the front of the prop not be clear?
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Can you explain this last piece? how would the front of the prop not be clear?
In other words the prop has to be below the bottom of the boat
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In other words the prop has to be below the bottom of the boat
yup
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OK fellas hopefully there is something simple I can check here and say the remainder of the fishing trip:
I was trolling all morning with my lights on but the main engine off. After a few hours the battery tried but couldn't turn over. I switched the wires over to my fully charged spare and this time nothing. Lights came on, but no trim, no click on the choke. Pull start didn't work either, although I've never used it since buying the boat in June.
Tow boat said the fuse looked good and we got the same results trying to jump it. This is my Suzuki 2 stroke not my Johnson, but I figure it's something universal. I haven't bought I shop manual yet for it :(
Any thoughts would be appreciated and might save the rest of my fishing weekend. Thanks!
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OK fellas hopefully there is something simple I can check here and say the remainder of the fishing trip:
I was trolling all morning with my lights on but the main engine off. After a few hours the battery tried but couldn't turn over. I switched the wires over to my fully charged spare and this time nothing. Lights came on, but no trim, no click on the choke. Pull start didn't work either, although I've never used it since buying the boat in June.
Tow boat said the fuse looked good and we got the same results trying to jump it. This is my Suzuki 2 stroke not my Johnson, but I figure it's something universal. I haven't bought I shop manual yet for it :(
Any thoughts would be appreciated and might save the rest of my fishing weekend. Thanks!
Check continuity of ground and power wire to motor make sure they got connection threw them.. had a ground wire break on a Johnson 25 hp would not start or click... if you moved the ground wire like while working on it she would fire right up.. the wire we had broke inside the cable insulator coating so you could not tell it was broke.. only thing I wonder is the trim hooked threw same wire?? Some times not hooked threw same wire trim is.. ?? If you got a digital multI meter that you can set for diode test this make a beep sound from meter.. when the connection between the meter probe is completed.. so one lead on one end of the wire the other lead at other end.. rember to disconneCT wite from motor and battery to test it .. could be to motor or distribution block that bad so poke around point to point to point till you find some thing.. any how best of luck at it..
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OK fellas hopefully there is something simple I can check here and say the remainder of the fishing trip:
I was trolling all morning with my lights on but the main engine off. After a few hours the battery tried but couldn't turn over. I switched the wires over to my fully charged spare and this time nothing. Lights came on, but no trim, no click on the choke. Pull start didn't work either, although I've never used it since buying the boat in June.
Tow boat said the fuse looked good and we got the same results trying to jump it. This is my Suzuki 2 stroke not my Johnson, but I figure it's something universal. I haven't bought I shop manual yet for it :(
Any thoughts would be appreciated and might save the rest of my fishing weekend. Thanks!
... did you turn the key on when you tried the pull start...it may be an ignition switch problem... most outboard manufacturers short the ignition coils to kill the engine... check the engine ground to make sure it is good... if all tests well... disconnect the engine harness... use the manual fuel enrichment and try and start the engine.. if it runs... choke/use the enricher to stop the engine ...plug the harness back in and retry.. it could have a shorted ignition switch..
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deadman switch?
You can't imagine how many times this is the culprit.
But if your outboard was supposed to be charging, and it wasn't..................
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through live support from a facebook buddy, and a paddleboarder that happened to be cruising our cove on his day off, found that a solenoid fuse to the starter was blown. Tinkering with the control box I was able to pull start the motor and enjoy the rest of the weekend until I buy another fuse. Looks like I may have accidentally reversed the terminals when I tried the spare and blown the fuse. Numbnut move if I did but now I know my motor better for it
Appreciate the help!
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The fuse did its job.
Glad to hear you solved the problem.
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through live support from a facebook buddy, and a paddleboarder that happened to be cruising our cove on his day off, found that a solenoid fuse to the starter was blown. Tinkering with the control box I was able to pull start the motor and enjoy the rest of the weekend until I buy another fuse. Looks like I may have accidentally reversed the terminals when I tried the spare and blown the fuse. Numbnut move if I did but now I know my motor better for it
Appreciate the help!
Glad it got resloved.. and the fuse saved your day.. lol's
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Glad it got resloved.. and the fuse saved your day.. lol's
X2