MyFishFinder Forum
MyFishFinder Tips and Techniques => Fly Fishing => Topic started by: daffydone on Mar 10, 2004, 03:59 PM
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hey guy's, I am new to the world of flyfishing, My brother in law gave me his old rod and reel, which was very nice of him, anyway, I don't have the foggiest idea as how to get started, I know nothing about what type of lines there are or what type of leader to use, I will probably be fishing for crappies and bass, and maybe some walleyes. I don't own any flies or other fly tackle. I would love to try this part of the sport, so any help would be greatly appreciated. 8)
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Welcome aboard!
You will find that this is an amazing way to catch fish. There is a true science to this. You will learn basic fish biology and how they behave in their native habitats and you will learn a whole lot about entymology. You will also learn how to read water to predict where fish will be.
The greatest thing is all the gadgets and gear, not to mention taking up the sport of fly tying. Thread, yarn, feathers, etc will take on a whole new meaning!
I would recommend picking up a couple of basic books. Orvis and LL Bean have some excellent beginners guides.
Read through the posts here and ask a lot of questions! Don't be afraid to jump in anytime...
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Daffydone,
I'd suggest targeting some bluegills at a local pond to start. They're very willing, and suceptable to all types of fly patterns.
You can learn a variety of casting techniques with ease. Especially if the pond is without trees and other obstructions.
You'll learn to handle these by necessity.
Poppers and rubber spiders work well and are readily available .
What is the flyrod you were given? What line weight is it made for and how long is it? The information should be marked on the butt section of the rod somewhere.
What reel is with it?
RG
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My biggest suggestion would be don't be afraid to ask questions. When I started I felt intimidated by the other more experienced fisherman. After a while I found that they ALL love to talk about fishing and are more than willing to help out. By then I had developed a LOT of bad habits. I agree with Daffydone that you should start on some ponds. You don't have an audience and any mistakes (and there will be a lot) are your secret. I would suggest getting video's to learn casting techniques since most people learn by seeing. I personally think it is much harder to learn it from a book (but thats just me).
Anyway, welcome to the club and good luck.
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I personally think it is much harder to learn it from a book (but thats just me).
I am afraid that I wasn't clear enough. I didn't really mean for you to learn the art of flyfishing from a book. That is probably next to the impossible.
Daffydone's original post indicated that he didn't know anything at all about flyfishing methods, techniques, and equipment.
I should have been more specific to say pick up a basic introductory book to learn about the basics such as types of lines, leaders, tippets, flies, rods, reels, etc.
Once you have an understanding about the basic equipment involved, then ask the experienced anglers all the questions you want to. It will be easier for you to ask the important questions and understand the answers you receive. But don't be afraid to ask questions during any point in your flyfishing education! Books won't teach you everything you need to know.
Remember, the only stupid question is the one not asked...
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I totaly agree with you Cider, I only meant for casting.
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My grandfather taught me to cast in his lower forty with a bit of yarn on the end of the leader to keep it from snapping off and a newspaper tucked under my arm to learn control. He would put out paper plates and other objects for me to target with my yarn fly!
I must have cast for hours and hours and hours and hours before ever seeing water! It was a good way to start.
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Daffy - There is a lot to flyfishing. I have been thinking about what you will need to get you started in this endeavor. Sounds like you already have a rod/reel. Presumably it has line on it? If not, I included it in the list.
Here is what you will need to get right away:
Waders (cabela's dry plus breathable is a good inexpesive introductory pair)
Hodgman bantam felt sole boots
Short wading vest (make sure you can fit warm fleece type sweater under it)
Wading style rain jacket
Landing net
Creel (optional)
Spare spools for your reel
Lines matched to your reel and rod weight (I use weight forward floating and weight forward sinking on separate spools to switch out - you can also use sink tips if can't afford the extra spool and line)
Leaders (4x, 5x, 6x, 8x in 9-12' length)
Spools of tippet material (4-8X)
Flyfisherman's nippers with needle
Hemostats
Ketcham hook remover to practice safe catch & release
Stream thermometer
Cord zingers to hold gadgets on vest
Flip focal magnifiers (for tying on size 24 flies to 8X tippet)
Good pair of polarized shades
Minnetonka fold up hat with wide brim
Insect repellant
Sunscreen
Fly storage boxes with foam so you don't dump your collection of flies downstream
Gherke's Gink dry fly dressing
Gherke's Xink wet fly dressing
Assortment of thousands of flies (streamers, nymphs, wets, dries, attractors, terrestrials)
Additional neccessary gear:
To tie your flies:
Fly tying vise (c-clamp or pedestal. preferably pedestal)
Various tools (bodkin, hackle pliers, hair stackers, whip finisher, ceramic bobbins, assortment of sharp scissors)
Assortment of threads
Head cement and lacquers
Ott lamp to provide natural light to tie with
Fly tying bench
Fly tying material
To get your tying material:
12 ga. 3" chamber o/u shotgun
Upland and waterfowl hunting clothing
Brace of pointing dogs
Brace of retrievers
Decoys
Duck boat
Turkey shotgun (12 or 10 ga 3 1/2" magnum)
Good centerfire rifle (.270 or .30-06) to get deer and elk hair
To train dogs to find birds:
Checkcords
Bells, whistles
Remote training collars
Bird launchers, cages etc.
To train hunter to hit birds:
Rod & Gun club membership
Clay pigeon launcher
Clay pigeons
Couple hundred cases of shells
Re-loading equipment for shotshell and centerfire to save money on the cost of ammunition.
Rod building material and equipment so that when you figure out there is no such thing as a universal flyrod you can start making them to fit all your fishing situations.
Finally, a second mortgage and an addition on the house to keep all this stuff in and a dog kennel out back for you and the birddogs when your wife loses patience...
Hope this helps!! ;D ;D ;D
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Cider, I printed out your list and gave it to my wife....somehow she doesn't believe I should have ALL that. LOL
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Livin4ice,
There you go...you made the first (and worst) mistake a flyfisher can make. You went and told your wife what you need to support your new hobbie.
The Freedom Of Information Act does not apply to a person's sporting equipment.
RG
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I like to hear someone that wants to join this sport. Start out small and work your way up. Ask alot of questions and try it.
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well guys, all I have to say is (WOW!) that is alot of stuff! I didn't know I was going to have to give up my first born to try this part of fishing. I guess the wife will have to sleep outside so I can store all this stuff!J/K. anywhew, I like that idea about using the yarn and newspaper, I think I will start off with that and go from there. thanks Cider, and all of you for the info! now, if I could just stop fishing long enough to teach myself how to flyfish. P.S. I won't tell the wife about my new fly fishing fund!
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daffydone
This is a great sport, as in your first born you will get by. I started out small and now have a number of rods. All my children have moved out and my wife has gave me one of the rooms to take over. "YES" I did ask for permission to call it the MAN'S room, which she did. ;D
Good Luck,
Rick
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Daffy - an important concept to keep in mind during your fly fishing education is BALANCE. Fly fishing is all about balance. If you think about the physics of casting, in spin/bait casting it is the weight of the lure or bait that allows the forward momentum to carry the bait to the intended target.
In fly fishing this is completely opposite. Think about the weight of the flies we use, they weigh very little. In this case, it is the weight of the line combined with the kinetic energy from the rod that give the bait (fly) the momentum to move towards your target. When fly casting you need the rod to do most of the work to make the weight of the line carry your fly across the water. Flyrods are similar to arrows in archery. Think about the spline of an arrow as it flexes downrange after leaving the bow. You really want to flex the tip of your rod when casting. This is called "loading the rod".
Having said that, it is important to match your equipment as best as you can. Most rods are designed to handle two different weight lines. Some of your more expensive or custom rods are designed for one specific weight line. If you look at the butt cap or the butt section of the rod near the grip, you will find that information.
So let's say you have a 5 weight rod. Line weight is ranked from lightest (1) to heaviest (15). You should use a reel that is designed for 5 weight line for this rod. The leader should have a butt diameter of 0.020"-0.022".
You also want to match the size of your fly (hook) to the tippet diameter for the appropriate balance. Most average stream fishing is done with flies tied on hooks between 10-18. A 4X leader will match up nicely with this range. Here is where it is a little backwards though. The larger the number of the leader, the smaller the fly you should use and the smaller the tippet section of the leader is.
You also want to consider the type of fishing that you will be doing most when picking out an outfit. For most cases of stream fishing a 3-5 weight is a good range. Steelhead you will want 8 or 9 weight. Bass fishing 6-7 weight. Saltwater fishing calls for the heavy lines 10 and up. Generally, the larger more aggressive the fish, the heavier the line you should use. Length of the rod is important for casting accuracy and power during the cast to get the most distance out of your cast. In general choose one around 9' long. I use a 9' 6 weight rod for big water and a 7 1/2' 4 weight rod for small streams with lots of obstacles.
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A little more information - line types
There are five basic types of line taper:
Weight forward - this is the best choice for a beginner and the most popular. The first 30 feet or so of this line is the heaviest and the rest is tapered down to a thin running line. That first 30 feet does all the work.
Double taper - usually used by more seasond flyfishers for delicate fly presentations on slow moving water. The belly or fattest/heaviest portion of the line is in the middle and it tapers down on each end.
Shooting taper - similar to weight forward where the front section is the heaviest but it is much more stout and shorter. This is good for casting into the wind or on fast moving water. You can get the most casting distance with this line.
Level taper - as the name suggests, this line is uniform in diameter and is the least expensive of them all but the most difficult to cast. Usually used for fishing live bait.
Bass bug taper - very similar to weight forward line but the front section isn't as long and allows casting of heavier bass poppers.
There are four types of line density which governs its bouyancy or how fast the line will sink: floating, sinking, intermediate, and a combination called floating/sinking.
I have two lines for each of my outfits. I use weight forward; one floating and one sinking.
Something to consider when selecting leaders: the longer the leader, the less accurate your cast will be. The shorter your leader the more likely you will be to spook fish.
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well guys, all I have to say is (WOW!) that is alot of stuff! I didn't know I was going to have to give up my first born to try this part of fishing. I guess the wife will have to sleep outside so I can store all this stuff!J/K.
You absolutely don't need to acquire everything on that list to get started. All you really need is a hanful of flys a balanced rod/reel/line and a few leaders and tippet material.
Start out small and add the stuff as you learn about it and find that you have a need for it. Part of the fun of fly fishing is adding the gadgets to your arsenal throughout the years. Note, I said years! ;D
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One more thing and then I'll shut up so others can answer...
When learning how to cast, remember it is all in the timing. Don't rush the backcast. Let that loop form and pause, then bring it forward. If you don't hesitate slightly you will snap off a lot of flies.
Remember 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. Forward stroke of the cast stop the rod tip at 10 o'clock. Back cast stop the rod tip at 2 o'clock.
Keep a firm grip and a stiff wrist when casting. Don't flex!
Remember these three things and you will be off to a great start! ;D
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I have been flyfishing for 5 yrs now..little by little I learning the tricks of the trade....but I have one problem as of now....over the yrs I have had the tendancy to walk in my local fly shops and ask for them to pick me out some flies of choice, whether it be dry, nymph, emergers etc....and I put them in my box and off I go......My problem now is that I have 2 fly boxes full of flies and I have no idea what they are! I have 3 fly books (Art Flick's, Orvis etc.) but they really don't show pics of the tied flys so I can compare to what I have in my box....Any ideas of what book out there will help me solve this problem and be more knowledgable when I walk into the fly shop..??? Please help.....
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Flyfisher - best advice go online and look at Cabela's, Dan Bailey's, LL Bean, Orvis. They have all their patterns on their on-line catalogs.
Repetition! The more you use them the more you will become familiar with them. Art Flick's Streamside Guide and Orvis Streamside Guide To Trout Foods and Their Imitations are two excellent guides for matching fly patterns to naturals.
You could also get subscriptions to Fly Fisherman or Fly Fishing and Tying Journal.
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flyfisher - I agree on what Cider stated in his last post {Repetition} is the key. Don't let anyone fool you, we all went threw this stage.... Ask questions and find the right patterns that are productive in your area.
Rick
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Thanks...after the last post I went and bought Orvis's Fly Tying Guide...the index has all close up pics of all the flys...98% of what is in my boxes are Orvis..I have a shop down the road from me....I do know a few by name from using them over and over.....so I see what you mean..
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Daffydone, im in the same boat (no pun) as you, and glad you posted the question. Im fly-shy :-[ Dont know anything, but allways wanted to try. I dont want to spend a fortune, but dont want junk equip. either. The only thing i know about fly roddin is i have a 8# cheap k-mart rod rigged with a mitchell 300 and 6# mono i use for eggin steelheads in the creeks. This rod is total junk and can be used only for this purpose.
I would be fly fishing for the smae fish as daffydone. Do i have to buy a 4#? rod for crappie, a 5# for smallys and a 7 or 8# set up for walleyes?
Are wet flys easier to use than dry flys?Can i use a small bare hook tipped with a spike?
Thanks
crappieloo
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Lou,
Stay middle of the road to start...a 5 wt, 8 1/2' is a good start. Put a Martin or Pfleuger reel on it and a Cortland 444 WF5F, weight forward line on it , a good tapered leader and you're good to go.
I suppose you could say that streamers and nymphs are somewhat easier to fish than dries.
RG
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to Cider and all who posted, thanks for the info that will help me out alot!I will be asking more questions as time goes on, I just wanted to let you know that the rod I have is a Martin and the reel is a Martin 61, the rod is an 8 ft. and the line weight is 6/7 is this a good rod for what I need? and how could I determin what size line is on the rod?
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Daffy - sure, that rod sounds fine to get you going. As far as determining what you have for line... Take the spool off the reel and look at the back of it.
All fly line comes with a set of adhesive labels that indicate what the line is. They are meant to go on the back side of the spool so that you can keep multiple spools for one reel with various types of line. If there isn't a label, it could be kind of tough. Check with the person who gave you the rod.
Check that line over pretty carefully. When they get older or heavily used, the protective/outer coating will begin to crack and deteriorate. If that is happening, then it would be best just to replace it. I would try cleaning it by getting a fly line dressing kit and wipe the whole length of it down before you decide to pitch it. You should also keep it clean throughout the season. They get pretty dirty and won't shoot through the guides as well as a clean line does.
If you are uncertain, just spend the $20 on a new line and have your fly shop load it for you with backing. Cortland 444 is a good line. Get a WF6F line for your rod. That is a good one to start out with. It will serve you for several types of fishing.
You could put the line on yourself, but it turns out much better when it is put on with a line winder. The shop should also ask you if you want it set up for right or left hand retrieve. Makes a difference as to how the line is wrapped on the spool.
Once you get set up with a good line, be sure to put that label on the spool. Another trick you can use is to take a sharpie and put a series of ticks on the end of the line to tell you what type and weight it is.
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I'm newbee too.. Bought a cheap wal-mart rod this weakend and want to try it. Great info and I'll start with the pond or the lake up to camp. I have a feeling that I maybe starting something I love. I'm sure givin some time I'll up grade and up grade and up grade. But for now I hope I'll be OK. Great Info Guys! Much Help!
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I have a feeling that I maybe starting something I love.
It's an addiction. Most people who just think about it are still safe. You made the mistake of purchasing your first rod. I'm afraid that there is no turning back for you now!! ;D
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Daffydone,
In order to determine what size line is on your reel, you will need to weigh it. The following AFTM scale is pretty much universally accepted in determining line weights. The weights apply to the first thirty feet of line, excluding the level tip. If you don't have an accurate scale, you may be out of luck.
The +/- Numbers are the allowed tolerances.
In grains In grams In ounces
3 100 +/- 6 6.48 0.228
4 120 +/- 6 7.78 0.274
5 140 +/- 6 9.07 0.32
6 160 +/- 8 10.42 0.366
7 185 +/- 8 11.99 0.422
8 210 +/- 8 13.61 0.48
9 240 +/- 10 15.55 0.55
10 280 +/- 10 18.14 0.64
11 330 +/- 12 21.38 0.75
12 380 +/- 12 24.62 0.86
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Daffydone,
In order to determine what size line is on your reel, you will need to weigh it.
Thor - I had thought about suggesting that too. This is a pretty accurate method for determining what weight your line is if you are reasonably sure that the entire line is intact. If any of the tip or body of the line is missing, then it could make things difficult. Sometimes lines can get snapped off, or damaged when people change leaders because they unknowingly cut off too much and affect the taper of the line. This is one reason why I like to use braided loop connectors with shrink tubing instead of nail knots. And of course, as you already mentioned, having a decent set of scales is important or you could get a false reading and think you have figured it out when you may be mislead.
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Go to the fly fishing shop that is in your location that has been there to assist you and all the guys that know the sport. These guys will help you and may charge you a bit more then the general stores BUT they are the guys that are there for the love of the sport. You will not regret it!
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Well i ALso have been hooked...Its been 3 years for me now....I had my first rod bought for me 3 years back a 7 foot Abu Garcia..(Canadian Tire Jobby) but has been alot of fun and SOme nice action to it...At first i was very intimidated Trying to Fish with it as most people like to watch ya FLyfish and IF its not going so well people like to comment...But as was mentioned earlier on this post is that at least We are the brave who try it and not just think about trying it...Now i use The FLy rod 90 Percent of the time..I HAve caught lots of differnt Fish on it and this SPring (Next week) LOl ill be trying for top water lakers soon as it thaws to Catch a laker on it...I believe it to be very relaxing and much more rewarding on all aspects of the sport..I have alos bout my friend who doesnt fish much a canadian tire jobby last year and he now is into fly fishing (you have to have a buddy with ya its Way cool to rub it in their face when ya catch loads) ANyhow just wanted to say my peace and say hello to all..And thanks for the advice ..You guys are a wealth of info...Keep up the good work!