MyFishFinder Forum
My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: Fat Boy on May 07, 2004, 05:10 PM
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Zach's nice bass pic got me thinking about this topic and it could lead to some interesting discussion. When all is said and done, perhaps we can all learn something, including me ;)!
Many states have different regs regarding bass closed seasons, etc. In PA, you can target out of season bass, just can't target bedding bass and all bass caught must be carefully and immediately released. Maryland simply states that you can't posess out of season bass, nothing about targeting them.
There has been much debate on many web sites, fishing shows, and magazines across the nation regarding the targeting of bedding bass. Some Southern states have studied this and concluded that it does NOT affect the population adversely... and many of those states don't have a closed season. I'm sure that some of the other states up North have studied this as well and may have conflicting views. And, although we all may have different opinions on this subject that affect our fishing ethics, keep in mind that not all scientific studies to date agree with the popular opinion on this subject, nor does it necessarily agree with the reasoning behind many of these regulations or those opinions of the various DNR agencies. I'll do some research and post the links to my findings on what I'm referring to in the future (mostly this is from my memory, but keep in mind I ain't gettin' any younger, so I reserve the right to recant my statements, LOL. In the mean time, gimme some time to research).
Regardless, we have to abide by the law in whatever state that we fish. My whole point of this comment isn't to be careful as to not be so quick to judge someones fishing ethics based on a picture because the laws that apply to you may not apply to that person and their state.
If anyone posts links to these studies before I get to it, thanks!
In the mean time, let's hear your comments! I can't wait for what Cider has to say on this!!!! :D
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since the Colorado Division of Wildlife is completely retarded, the encourage keeping and killing bedding bass, pike, walleye, etc. Any fish except stupid squawfish and chubs, which they are removing gamefish for. I wish colorado had decent rules and a competent division of wildlife like obviously exists where you guys live!
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We (wife and I) fish for bedding bass. Anything and everything we catch is immediately released. If it doesn't want to bite, we don't sit there and harrass them either. If they don't want to bite - fine, move on. There are also times when we leave them be and fish for other species/active fish. My largest smallmouth to date came from a bed (5.1 oz). It was caught on a pushbutton reel and an ultralite pole with 2 lb test set up for bluegills. It had a 1/64oz crappie jig. That fish was sittin on the bed and I couldn't refuse - that was the closest pole I had next to me on the boat. ;D ;D
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I totally agree, like I said earlier, I love throwing bitsy bugs w/ Zoom swimmy tails for SMB & LMB on beds and structure and all my bass are released after a smile and a snapshot. I think most all serious fisherman have great ethics, and we all know it is the hand full that give us all bad reps. I'm all for Fish on! any time most all go back anyway.
And yes this opens should I say a bucket of worms.
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Whats the deal with the Colorado Division of Wildlife removing them? Are the gamefish not native there?
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As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and fish for bass on beds. In fact, please keep all the bass you catch. There are so many in most of the NY lakes that they are a nuisance. They have taken over too much good water IMO. It's not uncommon on Honeoye Lake to go after walleye and end up catching 20 or more green carp for each walleye you catch.
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you cant put a blanket answer to this. Like eyedoktr says some lakes are overrun with bass so it wont affect the population. Othar lakes need more top end predators so bass should be left alone. Its tough for lay people to know which a lake might be. I would suggest just leaving them alone. Also, the poor things are so tired they barely pull back anyway. Anybody ever notice that besides me?
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>:( bass season is closed this time of year in new york,sounds like you are targeting them with them senkos... >:( >:( >:( wait till the season opens..
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Okay, I'm sorry if I offeneded anyone. I realize that bass aren't in season, and I'm very sorry. These bass were NOT on their spawning beds. They are in the pre-spawn period right now. They were getting ready to make their way onto the beds within the next week or so, as the temps finally stay warm, on a daily basis. These bass were in deeper water. I know where they spawn, because I've seen them spawning before! THis area was adjacent to the spawning area. What the fish do is gather at the bottom end of this steep drop off, on a small flat, in about 10-12 FOW. Then, as the water temps rise into the low-60's, they make their way up the drop off, to a sandy area, which is about 2-4 feet deep. They gather in the cat tails and establish their beds there. I don't site fish for bass. I don't think that pulling a bass off it's bed is right. Honestly, with the 7#er, I wasn't even fishing for bass in particular. I was fishing for whatever wanted to hit my jig. It was a small jig, and I've caught gills, perch, rockies, and bass on these jigs before. Alright, I was curious the next day, and through out the senko, trying to see how aggresive the bass were. Like I said, I'm sorry, what I did was wrong, and I didn't intened on offending anyone.
-Zach
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hmmm... I believe here when you catch a fish out of season that means you have to put it back right away. I think, and I may be wrong ... You didnt offend me at all Chen, and I would have probably done the same thing. Personally every bass I catch goes back, don't like their taste, but they are so much fun to catch!! Dont know the laws there in NY, but in my opinion you did nothing wrong... next time don't tell, save the pics for opening day... :-X
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Zach,
You released the fish unharmed right? Then you did nothing wrong! Catch em' when they are biting and pre-spawn is a great time to fish. I don't fish for bass on beds but I don't have a problem with it if the fish is immediately released and is unharmed. Most likely anyone that gives you a hard time about this is jealous of your catch, and a darn nice one it was!! My kids caught 7 bass from 15-19" the other night while they were catching perch (not one close to yours though :-\ ). This is a great time of year to fish, take kids fishing and introduce new people to the sport. The fish are relatively shallow and accesible now, not to mention eager to bite. Now go get em' and I want to see an 8lber in your next pics!
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>:( bass season is closed this time of year in new york,sounds like you are targeting them with them senkos... >:( >:( >:( wait till the season opens..
Zach, feel free to come down to Maryland and target all the bass that you want. We don't have such a rediculous regulation. During our closed season, you must release any bass that you catch, that's simple enough. If you fish our tidal waters, you can keep 5 bass but each must be over 15" even during the freshwater closed season. And if you fish in NY, don't get a ticket. The bass will survive, don't worry about it. Fish for chain pickerel... ;)
Personally, I catch and release all of my bass no matter when I fish for them. I have targeted bedding bass in the past and every one that I've caught went right back to the bed when released. I haven't done it in years for various reasons. I think that people make too big a deal over it, including regulatory agencies. There's been many a tournament won by "sight" fishing for bass, and many state records, across the nation. I'll do some research tomorrow morning when I have a faster connection and post my findings to support my statements. I'll also post results of any conflicting studies that I might find.
By the way, I've caught a multitude of species on a senko in addition to bass: muskie, Northern pike, chain pickerel, walleye, lake trout, brown trout, rainbow trout, freshwater drum, rock bass, crappie, red breast sunfish, bluegill, striped bass, yellow perch, white perch, channel catfish, sea trout and bluefish. Yes, it is true that bass go nuts over them, but, they do catch other species - often. The toothy critters in the pike family find them irresistable.
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One more thing about the NY law about bass season, that you aren't even supposed to C&R for them, it's not like they are endangered or threatened. We had a similar law in MD for stripers in the Chesapeake Bay and it's watershed but they were considered threatened. The law was justified. Now, they have limited seasons. In the tributaries during the spring spawning runs, you can target them, C&R only. And, the striped bass population is much better, but far from the LM or SM bass populations in NY.
I really don't understand that law at all. Every bass angler in NY should protest that one, even to be comparable with PA's law, which, like I said above, permits targeting bass but not bass on their beds. I personally have a problem with that law too, but at least it doesn't prohibit fishing for them. Anglers should let their DNR know how they feel. Bombard them with e-mail, show up at DNR public hearings, and let your voice be heard. They have the NY angling population fooled that somehow these bass need this kind of protection and that the bass fishery is in trouble. NOT!
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The exact verbage of the NYS state regulation can be found here (http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/fishregs/fishregsextra.html#Taking%20and%20Possession%20of%20Fish).
Note that it is NOT specific to bass.
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Here is an interesting article on the subject. I suggest that everyone read this. Maybe the NY DNR should check it out as well. Like I said earlier, science does not necessarily agree with the popular opinion of the way things should be in general:
http://espn.go.com/outdoors/conservation/s/f_fea_bass_ethics.html
Regarding the NY law, it is not specific to bass. It basically states that if there is a closed season, you're legally not allowed to target them. What the DNR needs is to reclassify the bass season, not close it at all, and make it catch and release for the same time period. Special regulations or closures for specific bodies of water where bass populations are in trouble would make more sense.
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Bass can be very abundant in some lakes, and not so abundant in others. Generally, as long as you catch and release bedding bass, there is no effect on the population or sucess of the spawn.
Actually most scientific studies on fisheries are largely dependant on the prior opinions of fisheries managers. Generally they hate to admit they are wrong, so if the study turns out to prove them wrong, they will fake the statistics.
Here in Colorado, in some rivers, bass are being relocated or slaughtered by the US Fish and Wildlife and Colorado Division Of Wildlife to supposedly protect native suckers. It's sad because independant research and angler catches show that the native fish outnumber game fish at least 5 to 1.
Tyler
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Largemouth bass were introduced in Colorado in 1878, smallmouth in 1951. Bass are known for their aggressive predatory behavior (which is why I like to catch 'em ;D). Since they tend to eat about anything that moves, it's no wonder to me that attempts are being made to removed them from _some_ watersheds in the state.
The Colorado Department of Wildlife (http://wildlife.state.co.us/fishing) wants to remove these non-native species from some waters in an effort restore/increase the populations of the endangered and protected species like the greenback cutthroat trout, the bonytail chub and the Arkansas darter as well as the Colorado pikeminnow, humpback chub and razorback sucker. There are, however and will continue to be, plenty of bass and places to catch them in Colorado.
Now I'm not a big fan of governmental agencies and I realize this policy may not be popular with some residents. But I don't think the restoration of native species to their historical waters is a bad idea and remember, I love to bass fish too. :) Also we can fish any and all days of the year here in both warm and cold water for a variety of species. :D
Disclaimer: I have no relationship with the Colorado DOW other than paying my state income, sales and property taxes. ;) Resident since 1959, your mileage may vary. :o
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I agree with colorado ice on that one. If the bass are truly harming the native wildlife then they should be removed, or at least have their numbers decreased. I have nothing against stocking or keeping a non-native species in a body of water unless it harms the native species. Remember, once a species is gone from an area, it is very hard to bring it back, sometimes impossible. As far as game fish outnumbering the bass 5:1, those are not good odds for the native fish. Imagine how fast a large bass could eat 5 smaller fish...
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I agree with much of what's been said. However, alot of you are talking C&R. Where it's law, that's fine, but here in WI it's optional. I'd C&R. Most people here would C&R. But, in my experience, we're the exception not the rule. I think we'd all agree that a fish is most vulnerable when it's spawning, and really not all that difficult to catch. Given the option, there are many people that will take advantage of the situation if given an option. Where they're a problem fish, get rid of them by any means necessary. Spears, arrows, nets, whatever. But where they're native and not harmful to the system, leave them alone.
kero
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Some commentary (from me) about the article that I posted, bringing up a few of the points as well:
My feeling is that Man (as a species) tends to think that they are this all powerful destructor, that some day we will doom all life on earth as well as the earth itself simply by our egotistical, abusive, wasteful, and neglectful lifestyle. Sorry folks, we just aren't quite that good. If we did something to cause a mass instinction, including ourselves, life would find a way to survive. It may take millions of years, but it would survive. Why do I mention this?
Well, we just aren't as good as we think we are with the fishin' poles too. I don't care if we all kept our legal limits of bass even during spawning season, the bass will survive (I'm talking about your average bass lake, not one with population problems to begin with). Like the article said, all it takes is one successful nest to populate a lake. Millions of fry are produced even in a small pond. Small fragile bodies of water my need special protection, but not the bigger productive waters. Not only that, for every nest that we can "sight fish" over, there are 10 that we can't see that may be slightly deeper or in cover.
I think the opposite problem exists with bass in many regions of the country, that they are actually under harvested and underfished even with the huge numbers of bass anglers across the country. Catch and release has resulted in more bass in the nation than ever before. Great. But, also, it can cause over population problems. People should harvest some fish, particularly the smaller fish when legal, especially in lakes where bass populations are stunted and numbers of dinks are high. So it does baffle me that the states are putting this blanket regulation in effect when each lake should be managed for the population of each game species separately when possible. Many states practice this, like MD, PA, VA and WVA, successfully. Anyway, I just wanted to add some fuel to the fire... ;D
Like I said, I promote catch, photo, and release of most gamefish. And, although I disagree with NY's law about not being able to target bass out of season for C&R, I do agree with bag limits, special regulations, and the reasons they are implemented because most of those regs are based on electroshock sampling and other scientific data. That NY law is based on what? An opinion...or perhaps "feelings" and humanizing fish... Come on...gimme a break!