SALMON RIVER , SALMON AND STEELHEAD THREAD...

[fishinfred]

I was at the hatchery this morning and there were fish in only four of the runs (as opposed to last year when all 11 runs were full).  There were some monsters (15lbs+), didn't see many small fish, not sure what that means.  There were still fish going in, so I am not sure that the gathering is over.  Fished town pool and one of the Tribs, wrecked hell with the dace, no trout....

[SNAGGER]

  all 11 runs were full on march 19th last yr?  you sure about that?  it was a whole different spring last yr, very cold with ice and snow til early april.  8 days ago during that high water event guys here smashed em pretty good in the cricks, sounds like you just had a little bad timing fred.

[fishinfred]

Positive.  I'm not sure if you remember me Snagger, but we were on the Salmon River Fishing Association together in the early 2000's.  My timing might be bad, but this is my worse year in more than thirty.  The runs were chock full into late April last year (partially because they were holding them because of the drugs they gave them) and there wasn't much of a drop back season with the high water.  Now I haven't been to the hatchery until today and fish might have left, but fish were coming in today while I watched.  Maybe they will fill up the runs, at least I hope they will, but I don't think so, something is wrong...

[SNAGGER]

Positive.  I'm not sure if you remember me Snagger, but we were on the Salmon River Fishing Association together in the early 2000's.  My timing might be bad, but this is my worse year in more than thirty.  The runs were chock full into late April last year (partially because they were holding them because of the drugs they gave them) and there wasn't much of a drop back season with the high water.  Now I haven't been to the hatchery until today and fish might have left, but fish were coming in today while I watched.  Maybe they will fill up the runs, at least I hope they will, but I don't think so, something is wrong...

Wasn't much of a drop back season? really, it was my best in 38 yrs, caught them til first week in june, not sure how often you fish the river but it was insane stuff, I kept my mouth shut even on facebook, didn't want too ruin it on my guests, I had a group of guys come up on memorial day weekend last yr, get like nothing on a charter I set them up and they let a 6 yr old reel in 32 steelhead in 4 hours, it was nuts. I have legitimate concerns about the kings, but I have no worries about the steelhead at this point, fran says hatchery is normal.

[SNAGGER]

  Last august I predicted the toughest steelhead season in 7 yrs, know how I was able too do that? by looking at stocking charts. they stocked nearly half as many last 2 yrs as 6-8 yrs ago.  not trying too argue with you fred, but I don't agree that's fishin is worse then the 90's, I fished every single day back then, it was much tougher then than now, we are spoiled , plain and simple.


I kept a very close eye on reports from my lodgers this winter even though I ice fish a lot, the swirling occurred multiple times after cold run off periods, but nothing out of normal, like the yr before when it occurred during that warm water period, hopefully this winter being milder, the steelhead had a much more diverse diet, not just alewives, helping with there thiamin problems...........dec said we lost another yr class of alewives in the winter of 2015. they only stocked 147,000 steelhead again last yr, that's way down from that high of 372,000 from I think 2008. until they up the stockings of steelhead, fishing will remain at present levels.

[trapper2000]

to be honest I lean toward freds side  ....for what ever reason the amount of fish  sure appears  lower to me and the  fish  generally are smaller  ......in the 90's  15 pound fish were common , I think the only reason  fisherman may be spoiled  has nothing to do with steelhead populations  its  the newer tactics of fishing for them......  the average fisherman today  is  a lot better equipped  then 20 years ago.... hell we had  to  tie our own rods  just to get a noodle rod and most of them were fly rod blanks  tied with  spinning  seats .....no one had any idea about pinning or beads .....even eggs were not cured as well ...I remember  first time estaz was used  for  flies on salmon river  ......  I agree with you fred ,it's my opinion the  numbers just aren't there ....

[SNAGGER]

  I got sheets in my drawer from yrs like 94 or 97 where they only stocked 49,000 steelhead trapper, never had a yr exceed 120,000 in those days, shoot hatchery 4 yrs ago dumped an extra 200,000 into the river off the books.  yesterday I walked a stretch of river I been walking my whole life, there was steelhead on every bar that there was supposed too be, I could of been 9 yrs old 21 yrs old or 47 yrs old blind folded and I wouldn't have been able too tell you what year it was.

[SNAGGER]

  I cleaned more steelhead this fall at 1 fish per man then at anytime in the 90's and there was a 3 fish limit then, that's saying something.

[SNAGGER]

  All I'm going too say, is if the hatchery doesn't dump extra steelhead in, get used too it, because it aint gonna change.

[SNAGGER]

to be honest I lean toward freds side  ....for what ever reason the amount of fish  sure appears  lower to me and the  fish  generally are smaller  ......in the 90's  15 pound fish were common , I think the only reason  fisherman may be spoiled  has nothing to do with steelhead populations  its  the newer tactics of fishing for them......  the average fisherman today  is  a lot better equipped  then 20 years ago.... hell we had  to  tie our own rods  just to get a noodle rod and most of them were fly rod blanks  tied with  spinning  seats .....no one had any idea about pinning or beads .....even eggs were not cured as well ...I remember  first time estaz was used  for  flies on salmon river  ......  I agree with you fred ,it's my opinion the  numbers just aren't there ....

  theres a lot too be said about what you just wrote, I firmly believe that the reason we are loosing so many steelhead is from new practices, namely taking 8 million pictures of fish that are released, those fish can only get caught and handled and photographed so much til they die, things are different now, we have too take pictures of everything, shoot I'm a photographer that takes probably more pictures then anyone, but my fish are already dead, I don't take pictures of fish that are being released, only harvested ones..20x the boats now, 20x the boat nets too rub the slime off, and pictures, its a different world now. thiamin defiency is just part of the problem, that's where it starts, its what is done too them once in the river that dooms them. River will take its natural course, fishin slows and you loose the crowds, then fishin comes back, never ending cycle.

[choo choo]

  All I'm going too say, is if the hatchery doesn't dump extra steelhead in, get used too it, because it aint gonna change.

Yup. I was at the state of the lake meeting in Pulaski a few weeks ago. They said that it will always be a put and take hatchery raised steelhead fishery. They have no plans of creating a wild steelhead fishery, or increasing or improving the habitat for more wild fish, it will always be a steelhead fishery reliant on hatchery stocking. Hatchery numbers will be variable from year to year.
 It seems The DEC and Albany officials  care more about the salmon programs in rivers, small tribs and lake O than the steelhead, and that might not ever change.

[choo choo]

Until yesterday , I have not been on the river since early November. Man The river was full of steelhead late Oct. early November . Not sure what is going on now , but I have been hanging and talking to many guides the last few weeks that said they have been really struggling to get hookups. Might be due to high water flows making for harder fishing and not being able to see them with the fish being spread out more or a lot less fish are in the river. This week with lower flows will be telling.
I fished above and below the Altmar bridge yesterday for just a few hours, and This afternoon fished below the schoolhouse area and had no hook ups ....but did see a few fish,but no biters.Water was cold, I think 38/39 degrees.
 Stopped taking the fish out of the water a couple seasons ago, and will continue not to take them out for pics....they have enough problems to deal with, being out of the water is not one they can handle when already weak and stressed.

[SNAGGER]

choo choo you get it, waters have been higher than normal all winter, schoolhouse was re designed with that tree, that held hook ups down, that's holes never been the same since the flood, they don't hold in there like they used too.with internet spreading gloom and doom, drift boat trips were way down, hard too hook em if you aint out, I saw very few boats out this year except on Saturdays, once this water drops we'll see whats been under it all winter, proof will be in next 2 weeks as long as we can keep it down, a lot of rain in forecast later this week. I fished in November and December and did well, good like 3 yrs ago no, but did well.

[SNAGGER]

  Fishin fred heres some food for thought, I was invited too a guide meeting with the dec , the topic wasn't steelhead but I brought up an interesting topic while at the meeting .In the old days I had the dec send me yearly stocking reports, I still have most of them from the 90's in a drawer somewhere, back then you would see things like spring brook, rt 3, rt 52, pineville, orwell brook ect in the steelhead and salmon stockings, then recently all I see is beaver dam brook, for everything, well won't all the fish stocked just race too the hatchery brook and not hold anywhere else in the river now?, since they no longer stock them anywhere but the hatchery, made moppys eye brows raise up when I said it.

[Mrp2000]

I think it's just been when of them years for me when I say it's slow for me. I did very well in December with some really big fish consistently. But the weather has been weird the water has been higher on avg. And it could be less fish too. I still catch them. Just not the ton of easy hookups that has been in the past. I honestly like the search and spot hopping. But I know most people don't seem too.