SALMON RIVER , SALMON AND STEELHEAD THREAD...

[fishinfred]

Good point Snagger.  I remember the year we all got together and stocked the whole river with fish (including the first browns that had been stocked in a long while) with drift boats.  Anyway it would be nice if we could get that group together again to help keep the river full of fish.  That seemed to be the only time we could get the people from the dam working with fisherman and the DEC...

[SNAGGER]

  That was a good group of guys, I liked that period in the salmon rivers history, seemed like all the business owners put aside there differences too get a main goal achieved.

[trapper2000]

  I cleaned more steelhead this fall at 1 fish per man then at anytime in the 90's and there was a 3 fish limit then, that's saying something.

lot more steelhead fisherman then 30 years ago


fishinfred I'm thinking I must know  you  I  remember  helping ole  hickory  stock  carried  bucks   to the  sportsman  hole  .....  felt great to help stock a  river you  would  fish .....

[SNAGGER]

  We had a pretty good thunderstorm on the 16th, got my first lightning shot of the season.

[fishinfred]

Nice shot of the storm.  Wasn't many people around yesterday.  Two cars at Schoolhouse and Sportsman, had the Town pool to myself.  Course I didn't get out until 11 or so.  I enjoyed our work with the Fisherman's Association, sorry that it broke up.  I enjoy your posts and how you keep this site alive.  There aren't many good sites around now...

[trapper2000]

  Fishin fred heres some food for thought, I was invited too a guide meeting with the dec , the topic wasn't steelhead but I brought up an interesting topic while at the meeting .In the old days I had the dec send me yearly stocking reports, I still have most of them from the 90's in a drawer somewhere, back then you would see things like spring brook, rt 3, rt 52, pineville, orwell brook ect in the steelhead and salmon stockings, then recently all I see is beaver dam brook, for everything, well won't all the fish stocked just race too the hatchery brook and not hold anywhere else in the river now?, since they no longer stock them anywhere but the hatchery, made moppys eye brows raise up when I said it.

that's  interesting  snag  and  i'll tell you why .... sage  was  never  stocked  with  steel and  I catch them their all the  time  along  with  20  streams   no wider  then a  car ..... as  far as I know  chrome was  never  stocked  in little salmon nor grindstone ...still has fish ....I don't believe any of these fish have  any homeing instincts  I believe and I have always said  I think they  follow current I think the same with salmon  I have caught  steelhead salmon and browns all the way to phoenix and in black creek and  waterhouse creek ..........like  the  geese  that live  on the  golf  course   they ain't heading  north  

[SNAGGER]

that's  interesting  snag  and  i'll tell you why .... sage  was  never  stocked  with  steel and  I catch them their all the  time  along  with  20  streams   no wider  then a  car ..... as  far as I know  chrome was  never  stocked  in little salmon nor grindstone ...still has fish ....I don't believe any of these fish have  any homeing instincts I believe and I have always said  I think they  follow current I think the same with salmon  I have caught  steelhead salmon and browns all the way to phoenix and in black creek and  waterhouse creek ..........like  the  geese  that live  on the  golf  course   they ain't heading  north  

  come on trapper really?  if that was the case the Oswego river and black river would get all the fish, yet a brook I can jump acrossed, the hatchery brook looks like Alaska, don't argue for the sake of argueing , its just foolishness.. If your not, I apologise.....  we all know theres a few wanderers, anything stocked directly in the lake is going too just randomly pick a ditch too spawn in.  not sure about Sage, but Little Salmon and grindstone at one time were stocked, probably still have natural reproduction going on since the original stockings.

[trapper2000]

I'm not fighting at all I'm stating facts  fish are caught as  far  as phoenix and  I'm sure  beyond  fish are  caught in fulton up water house creek  and  black creek steel have  never  been stocked  in sage creek  nor catfish   creek and  your saying they are  like homing pigeons? if that is  the  case  why are  most salmon  now  stocked  directly into lake  Ontario from barges ?

sorry snag your  not the only person with a  valued opinion .....I have  not stated  one thing that isn't true  and  anyone that fishes the  tribs  knows it's true.....  these fish return up ever stream that  flows into that  lake  ...they do not return to the  place of their origin and  if  they  did  99% of your  fish would  die right in lake Ontario where the  barge  drops them.....

[pieman1998]

now do they kill the steelhead or do they milk them

[trapper2000]

they milk them it's  interesting to watch  ,years ago before  the hatchery was built  fisherman could  volunteer to help at the fish wair  in Pulaski, the process was basicly what happens now the  fish swam up the shoots into  tanks   the  guys  netted the fish and set them in drums with a  chemical to to calm the fish (drug them)  then they were  striped and milked the fish then were send  down a  pipe with water running down it  back into the river ....(these were  salmon that I helped with) was a lot of  fun

[choo choo]

I'm not fighting at all I'm stating facts  fish are caught as  far  as phoenix and  I'm sure  beyond  fish are  caught in fulton up water house creek  and  black creek steel have  never  been stocked  in sage creek  nor catfish   creek and  your saying they are  like homing pigeons? if that is  the  case  why are  most salmon  now  stocked  directly into lake  Ontario from barges ?

sorry snag your  not the only person with a  valued opinion .....I have  not stated  one thing that isn't true  and  anyone that fishes the  tribs  knows it's true.....  these fish return up ever stream that  flows into that  lake  ...they do not return to the  place of their origin and  if  they  did  99% of your  fish would  die right in lake Ontario where the  barge  drops them.....

They are stocked from barges way out into the lake to increase their survival rate from nearshore predation from cormorants , sea gulls and shallow water fish who can decimate the stocking efforts wnen stocked along the lakeshore or harbors etc..
 99% would die right where the barge stocked them? They don't return to there place of origin? Are you feeling ok trapper?Those fish were imprinted long before they were put on the barges and stocked out in the lake...where they are stocked from the barges is not their place of origin.
 Mother nature is not perfect, and there will always be a percentage of fish that do not return to there place of origin. Strays or wanderers  for lack of aa better term, who play follow the leader.
Some of them enter the wrong stream , and backtrack out to search for their "correct" stream. But for the most part, a high percentage of the fish return to where they were imprinted, their place of origin. It is one of the most amazing thing in the wild, that such a high percentage of these fish can live their life out in the lake and return, years later, to their place of origin....awesome and amazing.

[trapper2000]

coo coo that is the  opposite of what I said  ...I said   salmon  steelhead and  browns  stocked  in the  great lakes   do not return to the place  they were stocked  ,rather they  follow  current  ....snagger  said that was   not true ...I  said if  fish  returned to the  points  that they were  STOCKED  then those  fish  would   stay in the  lake  where the  barge  dropped  them off ... salmon steelhead  and  browns  run streams  that were  never  stocked!  not  one  fish  was  ever stocked  in   rice  creek in Oswego,wine  creek in Oswego ,nine mile  creek  in  scriba ,the  church camp creek in scriba  , catfish  creek in new haven ,butterfly marsh in new haven , sage  creek in  new  haven ....  never  had  a  fish  stocked  not one  yet  those tribs  produce salmon  steelies and  browns  ever year  now that's  just  10 miles  of  lake  Ontario  shoreline ........I stand  by my statement  these  fish  DO NOT RETURN TO JUST WHERE THEY ARE STOCKED AT ALL OR RAISED   but rather  FOLLOW any current  the  incounter ..........the  proof  is  in  over  45  years  of  those  streams  produceing  fish ....and  by the  way  close  as  I remember the  only place  little salmon river was  ever  stocked  was at the  mouth  at mexico  point as that was the only  state  access

and  mother  nature  had  nothing to do with bring pacific salmon  to  the  great lakes  nor  rainbows  browns  or  steel  head  ...and    I never seen a  fish  return  to find  another  stream that's  foolish  they  turn white and  die  right in those  little  streams .....

I  do not misquote you please  give  me the  same  respect and  understand  I am  entitled  to my opinion  just as much as  you and  I have  been  fishing  those  rivers and  streams  before  salmon  were  ever  introduced ....

[mcully]

Sounds like the end of the ice shanty season Oneida thread. More fish and T-storm pics please.

[choo choo]

OK rapper2000...stand by all your statements, I have no clue I guess what you are trying to say. Sorry for commenting .

[trapper2000]

coo coo it is no secret I do have  dyslexia so  typing is a  issue   ...go back to the post before mine

snagger clearly makes this statement....stocking reports, I still have most of them from the 90's in a drawer somewhere, back then you would see things like spring brook, rt 3, rt 52, pineville, orwell brook ect in the steelhead and salmon stockings, then recently all I see is beaver dam brook, for everything, well won't all the fish stocked just race too the hatchery brook and not hold anywhere else in the river now?, since they no longer stock them anywhere but the hatchery

I said.....that's  interesting  snag  and  i'll tell you why .... sage  was  never  stocked  with  steel and  I catch them their all the  time  along  with  20  streams   no wider  then a  car ..... as  far as I know  chrome was  never  stocked  in little salmon nor grindstone ...still has fish ....I don't believe any of these fish have  any homeing instincts  I believe and I have always said  I think they  follow current....

snags  response  I guess  I  questioned the all powerful oz and  did look behind the curtain was......  come on trapper really?  if that was the case the Oswego river and black river would get all the fish, yet a brook I can jump acrossed, the hatchery brook looks like Alaska, don't argue for the sake of argueing , its just foolishness.. If your not, I apologise.....  we all know theres a few wanderers, anything stocked directly in the lake is going too just randomly pick a ditch too spawn in.  not sure about Sage, but Little Salmon and grindstone at one time were stocked, probably still have natural reproduction going on since the original stockings.

my response  still  is for one  steelhead  do not return to the same  water and  no biologist   ever said they did period!  number  two  steel head  where never stocked in little salmon  river  nor  wine creek  nor rice creek  nor the  bible camp ,catfish  butterfly sage the  nuke discharge  the steam station discharge and  other then at mexico point salmon weren't either ....all these  fish including the salmon are  running up any  water flow  into lake  Ontario  and  not just a few stragglers  but in numbers  and   no I don't think there was any  natural reproduction in the water drain  in Oswego they came up into ......

forgive me for have not only a opinion  but showing  examples  that are  plain to see  .....

and  snag why ask a question   if you don't want a  answer ?

snagger:  , then recently all I see is beaver dam brook, for everything, well won't all the fish stocked just race too the hatchery brook and not hold anywhere else in the river now?, since they no longer stock them anywhere but the hatchery


now I made  a  statement saying I found something interesting and  you 2  jumped like that  are  you kidding me