Lake associations vs DEC... Can they do that?

[ratherbeonice]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7975.html

Exactly. ..end of story, good find

[esox v]

So what your saying is that if I dig a pond on my private property and stock it with fish that I pay for the state can tell me if I can keep the fish I catch or not?  If that is the case then that means they own the fish in my daughter's fish tank, its the same thing only on a larger scale!

Answer to your first question is... YES  That's what I'm saying.

Answer to your second question...
Since your daughters fish tank has a closed loop recirculating system. I believe a permit would not be required to stock fish... but I also believe you are limited to what you can stock....such as ornamental koi, goldfish or even tilapia for that matter...You would not be allowed to keep game fish such as bass or trout...... Without obtaining a permit.

 

Exactly. ..end of story, good find

  Pretty cut and dry

[Clint S]

This begs the question... Why do some lake associations act like mini-gestapos?

Because they think they can.  It's a power trip.....

 Just like a homeowner associations telling  a disabled Vet he cannot fly a flag.   Some are run by holier than thou big mouths,  do-gooders that think they know what is best and have no common sense.  

[arcadeangler]

Theozon is more right than your giving him credit for lol

[Clint S]

Theozon is more right than your giving him credit for lol

This is in Oregon but...........

http://www.kpic.com/news/local/Eagle-Point-man-jailed-for-illegal-water-reservoirs-164206356.html

[esox v]

This is in Oregon but...........

http://www.kpic.com/news/local/Eagle-Point-man-jailed-for-illegal-water-reservoirs-164206356.html

He built ponds without a "permit"

http://www.kpic.com/news/local/Eagle-Point-man-jailed-for-illegal-water-reservoirs-164206356.html

[esox v]

Theozon is more right than your giving him credit for lol

He sure is !! I forgot to tell ratherbeonice that not only can he not fish in his pond without a license...he can't even dig a pond on his "private" property without a "permit" or at least consulting with the government for permission before hand. When you really think about it the land of the free really has become a joke in the last 50 or so years.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/6321.html
NYSDEC Construction Permits

Pond construction or establishing structures to obtain a source of water may require a NYSDEC permit. Do not start any construction before obtaining all necessary permits.

The permits types most commonly applicable are:

A Dam Safety Permit for construction of an impoundment structure unless the structure satisfies one of the following permit exemption criteria:
a.maximum height is 6 feet or less*;
b.maximum impounding capacity is one million gallons or less**;
c.maximum height is less than 15 feet and the maximum impounding capacity is less than three million gallons;
d.ordinary maintenance.

*Maximum height is measured from the downstream (outside) toe of the dam at its lowest point to the highest point at the top of the structure.
 **Maximum impounding capacity is the volume of water impounded when the water level is at the top of the structure.

A Stream Protection Permit for the disturbance to the bed or banks of a protected stream. Protected streams are determined by their assigned water classification.

A Freshwater Wetland Permit for undertaking excavation or placing fill in or within 100 feet of a freshwater wetland regulated by the NYSDEC. Regulated wetlands are identified on official NYSDEC Freshwater Wetland Maps.

A Mined Land Reclamation Permit for excavating and moving off-site 1000 tons (or 750 cubic yards) or more of soil and minerals.

Other approvals may be required depending on specific circumstances. To determine if a proposed pond site contains a protected resource or construction involves activities that will require a permit from the NYSDEC, contact the Regional Permit Administrator responsible for the area in which the pond is to be located. See the list of NYSDEC offices and the counties they cover to determine the appropriate contact location.

More Information on activities requiring permits and permit application procedures is available, including the Joint Application Form (542 KB PDF file) and Instructions (300 KB PDF file) .

The Environmental Resource Mapper is available to determine what natural resources are at your location.

Permits from Other Agencies
Permits may also be required from other agencies. Activities resulting in excavation or fills in waterways or wetlands may require a permit from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers under the Clean Water Act. Contact your local building department to determine if local approvals are needed. If you are located within the Adirondack Park, also contact the Adirondack Park Agency before initiating construction activities.

Technical Assistance
In order to construct a pond properly, technical assistance is necessary for the siting and design. If a pond is being created by constructing a dam, you will need to hire a licensed professional engineer. Some assistance maybe available on a limited basis through the USDA Natural Resource Conservation Service, the county Soil and Water Conservation Service, and the county Cornell Cooperative Extension offices. Please contact them for more information and for the names of consultants in your area that can help with the design and siting of a pond.

[CAPTJJ]

Actually what you posted says building a pond "MAY require a NYSDEC permit". Then lists the 4 permits that could be applicable, and also mentions "permit EXEMPTION criteria" for dams. I see no mention of "permission" being required. Not arguing, just stating the facts.

[esox v]

Actually what you posted says building a pond "MAY require a NYSDEC permit". Then lists the 4 permits that could be applicable, and also mentions "permit EXEMPTION criteria" for dams. I see no mention of "permission" being required. Not arguing, just stating the facts.

Other approvals may be required depending on specific circumstances. To determine if a proposed pond site contains a protected resource or construction involves activities that will require a permit from the NYSDEC, contact the Regional Permit Administrator responsible for the area in which the pond is to be located. See the list of NYSDEC offices and the counties they cover to determine the appropriate contact location.

Pond construction or establishing structures to obtain a source of water may require a NYSDEC permit. Do not start any construction before obtaining all necessary permits.

He sure is !! I forgot to tell ratherbeonice that not only can he not fish in his pond without a license...he can't even dig a pond on his "private" property without a "permit" or at least consulting with the government for permission before hand.

[CAPTJJ]

Still doesn't say anything about permission, it is a suggestion to CYA in case you do need permits.

IF you don't need permits, you can start construction without doing anything. Again, just stating facts.

I'm not sure its a good idea to let the yahoos out there do whatever they want regarding waterways, especially building dams that could break and damage other people's property; or alter streams that flow through their property that may contain trout. If I owned property with a stream flowing through it, I certainly wouldn't want my upstream neighbor to be able to dam it off, restricting the water from flowing onto my property.

[esox v]

Still doesn't say anything about permission, it is a suggestion to CYA in case you do need permits.

IF you don't need permits, you can start construction without doing anything. Again, just stating facts.

 :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: How do you know without consulting someone.... Then they tell you that you it's ok to go ahead without a permit.


per·mis·sion 
1.authorization: agreement to allow something to happen or be done
2.give permission for something: to give explicit permission for something, e.g. for marketing information to be sent automatically

[esox v]

I can tell you that if they see you digging a pond they will stop and it will be reviewed before you continue. I've seen it happen a few times.

[CAPTJJ]

That's funny that they use the word permission in the definition of permission.

As a side note, several years ago I was offered a job with the DEC that dealt with this stuff after I scored the highest on the civil service exam, I passed on it because I didn't want to move to the Western end of the State, I like the Adirondacks. Got into guiding soon after, can't believe I've been doing it for 16 years already; definitely made the right choice.

[filetandrelease]

Scott you don't need a licence to fish your own pond or  leases but everyone else needs one that is over the age of 16 does , the Farm Fresh Pond license  covers this and about stocking to and the license is free

[esox v]

 

Scott you don't need a licence to fish your own pond or  leases but everyone else needs one that is over the age of 16 does , the Farm Fresh Pond license  covers this and about stocking to and the license is free

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: Think about what you just said Freddy.

http://ontswcd.com/Forms/DEC%20farm%20fish%20pond%20license.html



 PROVISIONS OF SECTION 11-1911 OF THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW ARE AS FOLLOWS:

 

1.

"FARM FISH PONDS. Farm fish pond means a body of water, impounded by a dam, of not more than ten acres of water surface when full, lying wholly within the boundaries of privately owned or leased lands. it does not include any pond used in connection with any private camp, boarding house, hotel or other establishment catering to the public.
 
2. The Department may issue to the owner or lessee of a farm fish pond a license, effective for a period of five years, entitling the holder to stock and manage such fish pond for the production of fish. The Department shall fix the terms of each such license and may include therein the methods of control to be used and the manner of taking and type, size and mesh of gear to be used in taking fish. The Department may, for cause, revoke or suspend any license issued pursuant to this section. 

3. No person shall release any species of fish into a farm fish pond, unless permission to do so is first obtained from the Department.

4. A licensee, any member of his immediate family, and any person actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or the management of the licensed pond, may, without license issued under Title 7 of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any number, at any time, in any manner permitted by the Department.

5. The holder of a fishing, six-day fishing or combined hunting and fishing license, or a person entitled to exercise the privileges of such a license, may, with the permission of the licensee, take fish by angling from a licensed pond, provided he/she complied with the provisions of Title 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Law, with respect to open seasons, minimum size limits and daily and seasonal possession limits.

6. a) Fish protected by law, except trout, black bass, muskellunge and landlocked salmon, legally taken from a licensed farm fish pond, may be bought and sold during their respective open season, and may be possessed and transported at any time. Trout, black bass, muskellunge and landlocked salmon, legally taken from a licensed farm fish pond, may be bought and sold during their respective open season, and may be possessed and transported during their respective open seasons and until March 1 immediately following, but unless such fish were taken by a person described in subdivision 4, or are frozen or otherwise processed and packaged for storage and are being transported to a place of storage or consumption, no person shall transport in any one day a quantity of such fish exceeding the quantity which may be legally taken from that farm fish pond by a person described in subdivision 5.
  b) Fish protected by law shall not be removed from the premises of the licensee unless such fish or the package containing them bears the name and address of the licensee and his license number and the name and address of the person in whose possession they are.   
  c) Fish not protected by law, legally taken from a licensed farm fish pond, may be possessed, transported, bought and sold at any time, except that taking and sale of bait fish shall be permitted only under license pursuant to section 11-1315."