MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => Maine => Topic started by: Crazy Chris on Mar 21, 2020, 03:47 PM
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I've got a question for the salmon/trout trollers out there. Is anyone using Kokanee rods on downriggers? I currently use ML fiberglass downrigger rods (8-15LB), but am considering lighter for more action with salmon and brookies (4-8 or 4-10LB range). A couple concerns.
1. Are they too noodley to control fish right at the boat?
2. Have you every felt outgunned on a big salmon or togue?
I'd probably stick to the 7'6" to 8'6" lengths. Any recommendations on your Kokanee rod of choice would also be appreciated. Thanks!
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Where you finding those 4-8 lb. Brookies ?
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I would say a med light 8 ft down rigger rod
I don’t personally have down riggers on my boat but fish with a friends that have 4 riggers on their boats and they use cheap cabelas brand rods and we have caught up to 8 lbs salmon and 8-12 lbs lake trout on these rods as well as 4-5 lbs brook trout with no problems landing them at the boat, I think in my opinion it’s more about a good drag
system on the reels paired with a fast acting rod , and being able to
adjust drag when you know you have a really big fish on !
My personal choice is a 9 ft 9-10 med light fast wt fly rod , with sinking fly line , caught lots of fish from 3-14 lbs on this set up with 6 lbs leader . I would also add that when you have a really big fish on with down-riggers , clear the other gear and put the boat in neutral !
Too many large fish are lost cause folks keep dragging them instead of controlling the fish with rod & reel
Hope this helps
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I used a Tica Kokanee rod (fiberglass) for several years. LOVED it. Had the blue blank with a foam handle and it whipped the crap out of salmon. At the time I paid $40ish for it (Mardens) which was the most I had ever spent on a rod at the time. As stated above, a smooooooooth drag is more important than the rod anyhoo. I broke it and never replaced the rod.
I had an Shakepeare Agilty which was a very light action rod and one I'd consider to be a kokanee style rod. It had a graphite blank and I really liked that one also. Also broke that rod and they are no longer made. Also use the Eagle Claw Starfire Light Downrigger rod (6-10 lb) and caught a couple of decent salmon/togue/brookies on them. I rate them as OK.
All of the above combinations had either Ambassadeur 6500c, Daiwa Accudepth, or Okuma Clarion reels and were loaded with either 6 or 8 pound test.
I have looked at the Cabelas and Heartland kokanee rods and they didn't thrill me.
And finally, if you truly are targeting togue in deeper water, I personally like a more powerful rod and using braid. However since I'm not the one buying, YMMV
added in edit
I should mention that the breaking of the rods were 100% my fault. gamefisher and MarkNfish understand. 8)
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Where you finding those 4-8 lb. Brookies ?
I'd like to see a 10 pounder.
I've never used a Kokanee rod but I do use the light action Ugly Stiks on my down riggers, they're about as noodley as you can get, caught everything up to 18 pound togue on them and never felt the rod couldn't handle more and they are one of the best rods I've had for reading its action.
Like sebagosalmo and JDK said though, the reel is more important than the rod, having a good drag with lots of backing is were I start, then quality line and terminal tackle tied on with the best knots you know how to tie, put it on a barbie doll rod and you can land most anything in Maine.
I started using the okuma cold water series reels a couple years ago and I'm impressed with them, the drags have detents so they click as you adjust them and they're very smooth.
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Going that long with the rod has some pros and cons. The longer rods allow more control in keeping the line tight and turning the fish. But they also give the fish more leverage too, so smaller fish can feel bigger in a light action long rod (like fly rods). That’s not really a negative I guess, but yea, the reel matters more in most these cases.
During ice fishing, ice caught a lake trout that tied my PBs length with a 24” light action rod. It pulled a ton of line, and I had to pump and reel down on the fish to gain line back, but I never felt like there was a lot of pull/weight in the rod handle like when I caught one with a 7’ med action trolling rod or with the 9’ 8wt fly rod.
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stguy
Are you using the Ugly Stick Bigwater downrigger models or something else?
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stguy
Are you using the Ugly Stick Bigwater downrigger models or something else?
Yes
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I used daiwa brand trout salmon style Rod's 8 ft 6 in 9 foot medium action with Abu Garcia 5600 and tufline micro-led in 12 pound love both the setups they're awesome caught Browns and salmon 4 lb and over on them no problems what so ever
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have 2 kokanee rods, i think they are rated 4 pounds. most of the year they are fine on big salmon, the hard jaws early spring is the biggest concern and its the hookset. no way you want to haul up a big laker with them from the depths. i use 1950's penn reels on them with not much drag set at all
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Yes
I also use the Ugly Stik Bigwater 9' version. I like to bend the rod a lot on the riggers. No problem handling the bigger fish.
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For downriggers I have Lamiglas CGR762L Tournament Kokanee Special Rods. 7.6'
https://www.kokaneetackle.com/p-270-lamiglas-cgr762l-tournament-kokanee-special-rod.aspx
For Leadcore I use Daiwa Heartland HLD-KN 862L - 8.6'
http://www.rodsreview.com/hldtrolling-i167.asp
*Note the longer rods don't seem to work as well on the DR's.
Reels - Daiwa Lexa CC & Abu Garcia 6600.
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What makes a kokanee rod a kokanee rod? What is different about them?
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Glenn
I also use the BW downrigger rods and consider them one of the best multi-purpose rods for what we do here in Maine. They are indestructible.
What makes a kokanee rod a kokanee rod? What is different about them?
A light power rating with a slow to moderate action rod.
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Glenn
I also use the BW downrigger rods and consider them one of the best lulti=purpose rods for what we do here in Maine. They are indestructible.
That should count for something since it seems you have destroyed plenty of others. :laugh:
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That should count for something since it seems you have destroyed plenty of others. :laugh:
LOL
gamefisher says I could break a crowbar. He's mean to me. ;D
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gamefisher says I could break a crowbar.
Sometimes the truth hurts!😚
Fish USA has many options and a great company to deal with. I still prefer my old 4-8# Starfires on riggers and 8-14# on lead core but have many other brands. To me, these have the best tips and plenty of backbone, I can tell when I'm dragging a single leaf with these things by the way they are acting. Fan of the shimano tr200's or even the durability of the simplistic 209's and 309's, the older ones, just a little more winding.
Will be a lot of open water in next two weeks, can't wait to expand on my social distancing.😎🍺
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I'm a huge fan of the Big water rods, I've got them for just about everything, the only thing I don't realy like them for is dragging flat fish, the light action Teloras seem to work better for me.
There are also Big Water fly rods, the one in the picture is an 8 wt and I really like it for streamers at faster speeds.
They are pretty d**n tuff, I've had the line get tangled on a release and the rod tip at the same time and hung a 15 pound ball off of one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rztjy8JB/20200325-092544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rztjy8JB)
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I agree and am 100% serious when I say that I believe they are the best general purpose trolling rod for Maine. When I troll flatfish, I tend to use the 7'6" Starfire rod but had one break on me last year (SS and GF I've heard it already 8))
I picked up a Daiwa Great Lakes rod as a replacement and like it a lot. Jury is still out on durability. I have also been using the Okuma DeadEye and like those.
That said, if I were buying today, it would be 2-8'3' BW downrigger rods and I'd put quality line counter reels. As always, YMMV
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Another great trolling rod is the Eagle Claw wright/McGill, I bought a couple of them kind of as a novelty because the handles are golf club handles and I have a few clients that are very avid golfers, they turned out to be very nice down rigger rods, if they had the gimble butt caps I'd use them a lot more, I think they'd be a lot like the Kokanee rod the OP asked about.
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All this talk about downrigger rods makes me wish there wasn't still 2' of ice on the lake.
Maybe I need to take a ride down to visit ST
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Maybe on your lake, Sebago is wide open and after being exposed to someone with the corona crap I'll be quarantined to my boat shortly, I'll be sure to post some pics.
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I'm a huge fan of the Big water rods, I've got them for just about everything, the only thing I don't realy like them for is dragging flat fish, the light action Teloras seem to work better for me.
There are also Big Water fly rods, the one in the picture is an 8 wt and I really like it for streamers at faster speeds.
They are pretty d**n tuff, I've had the line get tangled on a release and the rod tip at the same time and hung a 15 pound ball off of one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rztjy8JB/20200325-092544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rztjy8JB)
Looking at the pic, if those reels are Okuma Coldwater, Sportsmans warehouse has a killer sale on them right now. $79.99 plus another 10% once you enter an email address.
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I'm a huge fan of the Big water rods, I've got them for just about everything, the only thing I don't realy like them for is dragging flat fish, the light action Teloras seem to work better for me.
There are also Big Water fly rods, the one in the picture is an 8 wt and I really like it for streamers at faster speeds.
They are pretty d**n tuff, I've had the line get tangled on a release and the rod tip at the same time and hung a 15 pound ball off of one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rztjy8JB/20200325-092544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rztjy8JB)
I have one of the Shimano Charter special reels. It is a nice reel that will hold 10 colors LC and the lever drag is very nice but at a 4.3.1 retrieve ratio it 's a slow as 5h!+ reeling up all that LC with a 100' leader. The reels I have weigh half as much and are 6.3 retrieve ratios. Just my .02 worth.
I can't speak for those rods as I don't own one. They look nice though.
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The charter specials are great when you have people on the boat you don't know, it's amazing how many guy's that "fish all the time" think a drag should be locked down solid when they get a fish on, these take away that option, they are a little slow but I don't think of it as a race.
I have to ask, why a 100' foot leader?
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Maybe on your lake, Sebago is wide open and after being exposed to someone with the corona crap I'll be quarantined to my boat shortly, I'll be sure to post some pics.
It was chilly but nice out today, my buddy and I managed 4 fish today, three togue and one salmon. we did the best we could keeping distance in a 16’ boat. Sorry no input on the topic of down rigger rods, I use lead core line on a cheap eagle claw black beauty 7/8wt fly rod and reel setup.
(https://i.postimg.cc/w1Q790Mr/0-C11-E1-B5-95-EB-4-FD3-BFF2-67-D6979-DFCAC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1Q790Mr)
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Thanks everyone for input and suggestions. I've got a pair of Cannon Powertroll rods and Daiwa Sealine 27LCs which work well for downriggers, just looking to try something lighter for more action on salmon and brookies.
Assuming the corona-mess blows over, maybe I can actually get out to the tackle store! I like the looks of the Lamis, so I may start there.
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The charter specials are great when you have people on the boat you don't know, it's amazing how many guy's that "fish all the time" think a drag should be locked down solid when they get a fish on, these take away that option, they are a little slow but I don't think of it as a race.
I have to ask, why a 100' foot leader?
Definitely agree with you about some people onboard cranking down on the drag. Can't say I never made that mistake though. :'(
Yep, agree again it's not a race. I just enjoy playing the fish in on the lighter gear within reason if I'm planning on releasing it. That's about 98% of the time. What I should have elaborated on was the reels with a slower retrieve ratio get old reeling them in to check the lure after I wind up getting a hit & miss or if there's actually salad on the hook. That's the PITA.
Again, I should have been more specific on the leader. I run about 80' of 8# mono then a tiny spro swivel attached to 10' or so of 4-6 # fluro on my LC setups. A guide told me awhile back that the mono will stretch and absorb the shock of the strike and he used it because salmon and trout have soft mouths. It made sense to me. The added length also helps when the pressure & boat traffic are high and the fish are skittish. I know this isn't set in stone as sometimes the fish will come right into the prop wash and hit. Hope that answers your question.
tight lines
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With that much leader your loosing the biggest benefit of your lead core, not only does the lead core sink, it also "occilates" or "wags" back and forth, if you steer your boat back and forth, your lead core will make an S shape in the water where mono will stay in a straight line, it's the reason lead core almost always out fishes downriggers, it gives your lure or bait some action.
With that long of a leader your lure is just traveling in a straightish line, like a down rigger. Sometimes when I can't get a hit on a down rigger I'll tie on 3 or 4 colors of lead and send it back down and usually start getting hits.
My leaders are 2 arms lengths, 10 or 12 feet, the bow that is in the lead core will absorb the shock, using a longer, softer rod helps too.
I should also add that I keep my drags really loose, just enough to hold it plus a little.
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I use a rods length of 15-20lb mono to a small swivel, then another rods length (at most) of 6-10lb floro to the spoon. That way the swivel doesn’t have to be reeled into the rod guides to land the fish. Since I use a 9’ fly rod, it usually have 13-18ft of leader at most.
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Thanks guys I'll give it a shot this season.