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Author Topic: fishing down a lake  (Read 6132 times)

Mac Attack

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #30 on: Jun 13, 2018, 08:27 PM »

The people fishing with all the tech that is out there are relying on the equipment and aren't working at adjusting to the changes in the lake they fish or the species they fish for.
         

I don’t agree.
Just because people are using the tools available, doesn’t mean they aren’t adjusting.

I feel your statement has no validity.  It’s purely conjecture.  And states that if you use technology, you really aren’t “fishing”.  That is pure hogwash.


However, most of the rest of your post I agree with and enjoyed.

Mac

seamonkey84

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #31 on: Jun 13, 2018, 09:29 PM »
On the flip side... there are some lakes in Maine that they have removed limits on smaller salmon and lake trout, or even no limit on bass for the whole northern half of the state, and people are still mostly catching and releasing  :o :rotflol:
It seems some places/cultures just have greedy fishermen that keep everything, while other places have a problem of stunting due to overpopulation and competition from the catch and release mentality. Can’t believe I’m saying this, but Maybe some of those out for meat should take a trip up here to “vacation land” and help thin some of our selected lakes lol.
"You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something." - Mitch Hedberg

kfishdoctor

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #32 on: Jun 14, 2018, 09:56 PM »
Every time I go fishing my goal is to "fish a lake down". I go to catch fish. If I do well I go back there again to catch fish. I have no fish finder, thermometer, depth finder or a gas motor. I work hard to find them and when I do( this long bearded old man)( since these types have been singled out as the culprits) I fish them down. I dont cheat, bend or break the law in any way. I carry a baseball counter and click off each fish I catch until I have got my legal limit and quit with a smile on my face. If my family depended on my ability to catch fish to eat this would take place every day until there were no more fish to be caught. Next lake. I dont and wont judge what someone else is doing since its unknown to me why they are keeping ALL those fish.  Old, young, beard or no beard its not my concern, I dont know why they are doing it but if they are not breaking the law catch those fish, its their right.
Where I fish I know some people I see fishing the bank need to catch fish to eat. I always catch some cats which is a fish that I dont want but I  keep for those who need them for a meal. No cats caught, they get some white bass or crappie.
When I first got on this forum I caught some crap for the photo I posted showing how we fished down a lake. Every fish was eaten and enjoyed by many who cant go get them because they are to old or dont have the ability to go fishing.  No more photos.
Brag, we all brag. Whats wrong with showing your catch. If its 2 or 59 fish Ill take the 59 every time.
I have caught over 600 what I think are keeper size gills this year ( 8 inch or bigger) and I am bragging and being honest. The more I take out the bigger the next batch gets. I have done this on this lake for 4 years and it gets better every year. Now before you hate me I only have kept 275 of them of which 125 have been eaten and 150 given away. No waste and many happy faces for the old guys that once that could go get there own. Church social on sunday so tomorrow ix a fish down day. If the day comes that I decide to keep all 600 I will do it so long as I know none will go to waste.
I dont think we will have to worry to much about a lake being fished down much in the future, at least around where I live. I will be dead( being the bearded old man that I am) and All the kids in my area have no idea a fish lives in a lake and can be caught on a hook. Their dads are to busy making money to pay for their 5 million dollar houses and all the stuff that goes with it, which is ok by me. Whats important to one is not the same as the next. But what scares me is dad has been replaced by a new babysitter or nanny, its called a cell phone. Soon if not already there will be an app on how to fish a lake down.                       Oh by the way, happy fathers day guys. Take your son or grandson or nephew or daughter or granddaughter or wife or friend or neighbor out to fish and teach them you skills. They may need to know it in the future when that phone no longer will work.

 

taxid

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #33 on: Jun 14, 2018, 10:05 PM »
Believe it or not I ran into one of those "bearded folk" the other day and he was all for the 25 fish limit. He even brought it up first. The conversation got started when I told him where I was gong fishing in the Northeast the bluegills are not highly regarded and rarely targeted.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

sprkplug

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #34 on: Jun 17, 2018, 07:05 AM »
When people talk of fishing down a lake, most think of overall numbers. But there is a huge difference in quantity, vs. quality. I doubt I could put a dent in the overall quantity of bluegills in my ponds, but I can absolutely impact the quality, just by targeting the biggest, bedding males. We know so much more about big bluegill hierarchy these days, that it has become accepted knowledge that the big males contribute the most to the size structure.

So if it’s true in a private pond, it’s also true in a public lake....the bluegills don’t care. The difference of course is the size of the water, and the dynamics of the existing population. If a bow continues to churn out sustainable numbers of 8” bluegills year after year, and the DNR as well as the angling public is satisfied with that size, then great. But if we’re just using length as our benchmark, I want to see at least 10” bluegills. Why do you suppose it is, that most folks acknowledge that their best chance to catch an 11” or 12” bluegill here in Indiana is from private water??

A lot of guys will instantly point out that the reason is due to those private fish being on feed. And that absolutely is a cornerstone.... but there are other corners in that foundation also, and equally important is the inescapable truth that an 8” bluegill will never become a 10” bluegill if it goes into the frying pan....on private water we restrict the harvest accordingly.

taxid

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #35 on: Jun 17, 2018, 10:05 PM »
Well said Tony. I've even had the retired director of the northern region iNDNR fish my trophy pond. He's caught bluegills in there he will never see in public waters. And I am not talking hybrids.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

seamonkey84

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #36 on: Jun 18, 2018, 04:36 PM »
then again im not sure i want too many over 9" anyhow.  they can get kinda gray and "mealy" when they get that huge.

That’s what I’ve always figured, the biggest are the oldest fish, with the most buildup of contaminants too. How much more meat is on a 10” vs a 9” gill? On the occasion that I keep anything, I throw the biggest ones back and keep the much more numerous average to upper end of average sized ones. People don’t target panfish much here, but since we have shorter summers, the fish don’t grow as large. I’ve yet to catch a 10” gill, came close with two that were 9.5”, so whenever I catch one bigger than 8” I tend to throw them back. I don’t know if I’d really bother with the process, but I thought about submitting one for a state record since we don’t even have one listed yet :o, that’s how little people here care for them. It was only a few years  ago that the first pumpkinseed was submitted for a record, and that was by someone from out of state. 
"You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something." - Mitch Hedberg

RoeBoat

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #37 on: Jun 18, 2018, 05:12 PM »
In all honesty, I'm not looking for 10" gills when I'm fishing.  Prefer to eat the 7-8.5" ones.  Don't get me wrong, I get some big ones through the ice and in the boat but I'm not looking to fill a bucket or basket with 10" gills.

If the greatest issue is taking large males off the beds then maybe a season closure would help.  It seems like the bedding has been pretty spread out the last couple of years.  I remember seeing gills on beds in Noble Co last year in mid July.

As far as a state wide limit goes, I'm just not sure.  I guess I would be for it rather than against it. 

sprkplug

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #38 on: Jun 18, 2018, 07:19 PM »
so to have 10" gills you have to restrict the harvest of the 8"ers?  if so, then what use would the 10"ers have?  general angling public is harvest minded when it comes to pan fish.  i read a post where someone suggested a 12 a day limit on 9"+ gills and redears.  would that help matters any and still allow mass harvest of eater size fish for the majority?  then again im not sure i want too many over 9" anyhow.  they can get kinda gray and "mealy" when they get that huge.

To help wrap our heads around the thing, a few key points: First, once a male BG becomes sexually mature, his rate of growth slows way down. Energy and resources that were once devoted to growth, get switched to reproduction. Second, BG are capable of delaying their own sexual maturity. Finally, nature's goal is procreation, and the bigger the male the greater his chances with the ladies.

So, here's a BOW where the largest size class of BG are averaging 9".Those fish are the dominant males, sexually mature and on the beds courting females.  On Tuesday, The 8" non-sexually mature male fish swims up, looks the situation over, and recognizes that trying to compete against those larger males is pointless. His best chance of claiming a prime nesting spot and courting a female lies in growing larger than, or at least as large as, the 9" boys. So he delays sexual maturity, in order to continue growing. Later than same Tuesday, a boat comes along with a couple anglers, and they pull those 9" fish off the beds and take them home. maybe they ate them, maybe they gave them away to folks who couldn't fish themselves. Both are legal. Either way, those fish are gone from that BOW. On Wednesday, that same 8" BG swims back up to the nesting area, and lo and behold, the only fish around are fingerlings robbing the eggs of the recently departed guard males, AND a school of gravid female BG who have yet to lay. But now that 8" BG IS the king of the pond......so there's no longer any need for him to continue growing at such a fast rate. He is big enough to attract a female right now, since the larger competition has been removed. Again, removed legally, but still removed....the motive doesn't matter. So, our 8" male BG becomes sexually mature. And studies have shown that when advanced males are removed, this change can happen in a very short time. So, the smaller fish is now mature, and his growth slows down. He moves onto a nest.

Fast forward to Thursday. Those same anglers hit the beds again, and remove the 8" fish. Where does that leave the 7" BG that has wistfully been staring in from the edges of the dance floor? You got it, center stage. He becomes sexually mature, and his growth slows way down.

To be sure, I have taken liberties with this example. Most ponds or lakes have more than one size class of male bluegills on the nest at a given time. But the principle behind how a lake gets "fished down", is accurate and proven. No two lakes are the same, and no one harvest strategy will be appropriate for all of them. But I can find absolutely no reason to ever keep the largest male BG in any BOW. Their presence is helping suppress the maturity of smaller fish, which in turn keeps those same smaller fish ever growing larger.


lowaccord66

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #39 on: Jun 18, 2018, 07:40 PM »
I don’t agree.
Just because people are using the tools available, doesn’t mean they aren’t adjusting.

I feel your statement has no validity.  It’s purely conjecture.  And states that if you use technology, you really aren’t “fishing”.  That is pure hogwash.


However, most of the rest of your post I agree with and enjoyed.

Mac

I'm with Mac to a point.  I've seen and have had friends see smaller bodies of water become popular on the internet and subsequently are over harvested.  Mac, Lance has seen this more than anyone I know. 

Saltwater wise if you dont think the internet and advances in tech arent putting a hurt to the striped bass you are nuts.  Even something as simple as braid, changed the game forever.  Add in some facebook posting, which can be done live and hordes show up.  I've watched it absolutely cause decimation to a number of stripers, all by anglers, and all from shore.  Miles of canal lined with dead keepers.  I was there and catching...someone from OTW that I know made a fb post.  Granted, he was doing his job, I get it.  But man what happened afterwards was ungodly. 

Here's how it ties into something as simple as braid.  It helped the average joe cast much further reaching stripers they'd never hit otherwise. 

So anyways, it really depends and where it may be hogwash in some scenarios it most certainly isn't in others.  Ones mileage will vary with experience and Ive seen the effects in a few different fishing venues.

RoeBoat

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #40 on: Jun 18, 2018, 08:32 PM »
All that being said sprkplug, are the majority of the large males harvested during the spawn on a given body of water or is it just a small percentage?

The reason I ask is I've fished the Maumee for walleye in the spring for decades.  Always seemed like a very bad idea to keep those big females.  In a podcast this spring the head of ODNR stated the females kept during the run had absolutely no affect on the spawn.  This is due to the fact that it's such a small percentage of the total harvest, I think the number was less than 1 percent.

I know this is apples and oranges, I was just wondering if closing the spawing season was the best answer or if limiting the number of fish over 9" year round, bag limit state wide, or some combination of all the above would work best.

sprkplug

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #41 on: Jun 18, 2018, 08:47 PM »
In my opinion, the spawn is the most vulnerable time for the biggest males. They are often in shallow water where sight fishing renders them vulnerable without any need for electronics, and to be honest, pretty much anyone can find and catch them. Sight and smell will often lead anglers right to em, and no real talent is needed to catch them in numbers. That being said, winter ice fishing can put the hurt on them also.  Again, it doesn't matter the time of year, or the motives of the angler(s) who catch and disperse their catch...once gone, they're gone. Can they all be caught? I think it depends on the size of the water, the fishing pressure, the existing numbers of a given size present in the BOW, and the size structure already present. ( How many of the next couple size classes down are there?). I highly doubt they will all be caught, but does that mean damage hasn't been done? I don't know.

Regarding female bluegills, two or three females can produce enough eggs to populate a one acre pond. Very seldom do I release any female bluegills, unless their body dynamic is exceptional. Numbers of females just aren't as important as having numbers of large males.

RoeBoat

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Re: fishing down a lake
« Reply #42 on: Jun 22, 2018, 02:06 PM »
I think so too.  I like to keep more than 25 a few times a year.  I fish more in my mind than I do on the water!  I usually fry between 15 and 20 fish at a time for dinner, like to have a few pieces left over and it's nice to freeze a bag while I'm at it. 

I also understand though, that with no limit some folks will be out there getting 30, 50, or 100 several days a week and that's not good either.

 



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