thanks cp, i appreciate the responce. I have no doubt you catch many carp on doughballs and trebles, and if thats all you want for the occasional carp session and your happy with that, then why bother with a new aproach? i understand, no big deal. My post was an overly long winded way of highlighting what is basically just one 'new' knot, and a slightly different approach to something you already do, by the sounds of it well. I'm not really aiming this at anglers with a local carp hole teeming with easy fish, more to those who have seen carp at a local spot and tried the usual chit with no luck... Its perfectly acceptible to go ice fishing with a spool of line some hooks, splitshot and a bucket of minnows, sure you'll probably catch some fish too, good! but going ice fishing with a flasher WILL increase your catches almost imeasurably, the difference is night and day.