MyFishFinder Forum
My Fish Finder Main => General Fishing Discussion => Topic started by: Grumpyoldman on Aug 05, 2009, 04:34 AM
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I think its a trickle charge. But, since I just killed a battery, I thought I should ask.
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having a good battery charger is half of it one that won't let you over charge and yes trickle charge is the way to go witch is the 12volt 10amp setting i always thought that the 2 amp setting was trickle charge but the 2 amp setting is for small batteries for atvs and lawn tractors and stuff hope this helps
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A trickle charger is typically a cheap, unregulated charger and can easily destroy a battery by overcharging. Buying a good charger that will not overcharge is one important key to long battery life. A good deep cycle battery should withstand hundreds of drawdown/recharge cycles. Make sure you have the correct charger.
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i always thought that the 2 amp setting was trickle charge but the 2 amp setting is for small batteries for atvs and lawn tractors and stuff.
I too thought 2 amp was a trickle charge. My charger has a 2,4 and 6 amp charge rate. I always charged the battery on 6 amp until the full charge light came on, then charged on 2 amp right before I took the boat out.
I also heared that it is best to charge the battery as soon as possbile. Don't know why, just remember seeing it on here somewhere.
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trickle charging is charging slowly. i use the 4 amp setting on mine, and have never had a problem. drawn down the battery as much as possible before recharging.
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I bought a Minnkota MK11OP for charging my batts, it's designed specifically for deep cycles and it shut down when the battery is charged. It has indicator lights that tell when it's charging, when it's done charging or if you have a connection problem. Works well and it's pretty much dummy proof. Got it from Bass Pro and it was not to much $.
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P.S. The dummy proof comment was meant on my behalf guys, thought I better clarify ;D
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Definetly stay away from the "Quick Charge" on my Shumacher is 12v 15 amp but does crap on my battery. I use the 12v 2amp slow charge and it recharges my battery within 12 hours perfectly.
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I have an onboard that gives 8 amps. Seems to charge my batteries pretty well. I can troll for 3 days without recharging.
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stay away from the automatic chargers....they give a surface charge, but do not get down into the cells......i have an on board charger which i plug in everytime i go fishing, but i use to use a charger that had a manuel setting an let it soak on 10 amps........i think everyone has their own method
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having a good battery charger is half of it one that won't let you over charge and yes trickle charge is the way to go witch is the 12volt 10amp setting i always thought that the 2 amp setting was trickle charge but the 2 amp setting is for small batteries for atvs and lawn tractors and stuff hope this helps
I had the old battery on the 2 amp setting! I got the charger from NAPA. has a 12v 10amp and 2 amp setting, and a 6v setting. But it does not say that it has an automatic shutoff. came w/ no instructions.
I do check the voltage as its charging w/ a voltmeter. What should I charge it to? It will charge up to 13.5v, and I have been.
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trickle charging is charging slowly. i use the 4 amp setting on mine, and have never had a problem. drawn down the battery as much as possible before recharging.
How do I draw the battery down if I don't use all the juice on one fish trip and want a full charge for the next trip?
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How do I draw the battery down if I don't use all the juice on one fish trip and want a full charge for the next trip?
that's why i have 2 batteries. i'll wear one out completely, then charge it. most lakes where i fish are electric only, and i troll for brown trout in the spring. it's nice to have a second battery. ;)
also, buy the second one 2-3 years after the first one, so you can always have a fairly new battery as your main one. ;D
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Deep cycle batteries are identical to automotive batteries with the exception of thicker lead plates which allows for a much increased reserve capacity (allowing it to run longer at lower draws) and lower cold cranking amps (needed for starting). There should be no reason to draw a deep cycle battery way down before recharging.
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A unit with a "Float" charger is best that way it's not always sending a charge.....
http://batterytender.com/battery_basics.php/#2 (http://batterytender.com/battery_basics.php/#2)
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Deep cycle batteries are identical to automotive batteries with the exception of thicker lead plates which allows for a much increased reserve capacity (allowing it to run longer at lower draws) and lower cold cranking amps (needed for starting). There should be no reason to draw a deep cycle battery way down before recharging.
i agree..........i rarely draw mine all the way down unless i am fishing a tourney and the wind is howling.......i charge mine everytime after i fish...i have never had a problem.....my problem came when i had the automatic shut off charger.....it said it was 100% but it was only giving it a surface charge.....check those water levels as well
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Pick up a quality on board charger. I have a 3 bank DualPro. Charges at 10 amps then when reaches full charge automatically switches to a float charge. Temperature compansates for winter storage also so no worries bout draining over winter. It cost more more than a MinKota, witch is a fine charger, but it is a step up in functionality.
10 amp is as low as you need to go I feel. Low enough not to create heat and gasses and sufficient to charge over night.
I feel one runs a risk at over charging if you do not have an automatic shut off or switching to a float charge witch can lead to the shortening of the life of the battery.
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Battery charging 101 ;D
I've done a lot with batteries in my job. Lighting systems, emergency power, generator storage, electric lift equipment, pump systems....etc...etc...etc. My source for information at work has been the manufacturer. They know what to do with their batteries.
Deep cycle batteries (good ones) have solid lead plates as opposed to "sponge plates". Sponge plates allow for more surface area to provide higher cranking amperage, but less over long periods of time and a shorter life span. Deep cycles have less cranking amperage, but the thicker plates allow for a longer discharge cycle. The plates are not consumed as quickly ...they're tough.
Without getting into the chemistry of voltage production in a lead acid battery, charging reverses the effects of discharging a battery by removing lead dioxide from the positive plates and depositing it on the negative plates, thus restoring it's ability to produce the chemical reaction that creates voltage.
Whew!
The differences in construction means differences in charging methods.
"Battery Charging
Battery charging takes place in 3 basic stages: Bulk, Absorption, and Float.
Bulk Charge - The first stage of 3-stage battery charging. Current is sent to batteries at the maximum safe rate they will accept until voltage rises to near (80-90%) full charge level. Voltages at this stage typically range from 10.5 volts to 15 volts. There is no "correct" voltage for bulk charging, but there may be limits on the maximum current that the battery and/or wiring can take.
Absorption Charge: The 2nd stage of 3-stage battery charging. Voltage remains constant and current gradually tapers off as internal resistance increases during charging. It is during this stage that the charger puts out maximum voltage. Voltages at this stage are typically around 14.2 to 15.5 volts.
Float Charge: The 3rd stage of 3-stage battery charging. After batteries reach full charge, charging voltage is reduced to a lower level (typically 12.8 to 13.2) to reduce gassing and prolong battery life. This is often referred to as a maintenance or trickle charge, since it's main purpose is to keep an already charged battery from discharging. PWM, or "pulse width modulation" accomplishes the same thing. In PWM, the controller or charger senses tiny voltage drops in the battery and sends very short charging cycles (pulses) to the battery. This may occur several hundred times per minute. It is called "pulse width" because the width of the pulses may vary from a few microseconds to several seconds. Note that for long term float service, such as backup power systems that are seldom discharged, the float voltage should be around 13.02 to 13.20 volts." (From Wind/sun)
To properly charge a deep cycle battery you need a "smart charger"
We buy Charge Tek chargers for smaller applications.
http://www.batterystuff.com/ (http://www.batterystuff.com/)
Hope this helps.
RG
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I understand the mechanics now, and the need for the right charger. Thanks very much.
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being ignorant of the deep cell battery technology .... i understand the voltage but what about the amps? is it better for the battery to be charged a longer period at a low amp?????
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The higher the amperage, the harder the current is pushed into the battery.The initial charge (bulk) is quick. If you'll read the charging procedure above, you'll understand that regardless of the amperage of the charger, the rate of charge must be regulated properly. Whether it's a 2 map or 100 amp charger, you can ruin your battery if it's not regulated.
In other words, higher amperage chargers will perform better than lower amperage chargers, if regulated properly.
RG
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I was wondering if deep cycle batteries were like other rechargeables. If you don't totally discharge they will only go to where you start charging, and if you don't fully charge they loose peak charge limits?
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No.
They're designed to be discharged to around 20% during a cycle. They should be recharged as soon as possible though, to prevent the plates from sulfating when sitting idle at a low charge. Again, it's the voltage put back into the battery that reverses the effects of discharging. All batteries discharge to a degree when idle.
RG
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No.
They're designed to be discharged to around 20% during a cycle. They should be recharged as soon as possible though, to prevent the plates from sulfating when sitting idle at a low charge. Again, it's the voltage put back into the battery that reverses the effects of discharging. All batteries discharge to a degree when idle.
RG
that is what i was taught. that is what works for me. thanks RG!
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my charger is a craftsman automatic 6 amp to 2 amp with auto shut off would you recommend just using it on 6 amp then! i may have been doing this wrong i been using it set on 2 amps
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My granddad and dad always taught me to trickle charge on 2 amp overnight. That way you are not putting the heat to the internal plates and taking life from the battery. Only my 2 cents, but has always worked. :)
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Well,
I go by what the manufacturers say. A 2amp will certainly put some charge into the battery. Any DC 13 - 16v transformer will do that even at .5 amps. The problems come when the process is not followed completely. The battery will never be completely charged leaving lead dioxide deposits on parts of the positive plates. This will shorten the battery's effective cycle and degrade the plates shortening the overall life of the battery.
I have these types of problems with my bucket truck's heavy duty deep cycle batteries. The alternators will charge the batteries but never fully. It's not the best system.
RG
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Thanks for the battery lesson!
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rg just a question does your bucket truck have a altnator or generator????
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The batteries are charged by the truck's dual 90 amp alternators. They're designed to run the boom , work lights and a hefty inverter as well. I try to use the battery pack as much as I can. That monster 454 sucks gas like a toilet flushing.
RG
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it's not diesel?? does it have a seprate regulator? or built in???? 454 gm motor?
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Yes, it's a GMC...we didn't want a diesel, they're obnoxious to drive distances with...too darn noisy.. I assume the regulators are built in as with all modern alternators.
RG
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thats a very interesting set up rg!!!! i'm intriged .... i ask about regulator becase that alt should push about 17 to 18 volts on top end when needed! just wondering why it's not charging fully for you! but it sounds like a cool machine
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If you go back to the proper charging scenario, I believe that the batteries are only receiving a "bulk" charge. They get in the range of 14.5 v with the engine at idle.
The truck is a sweetheart to drive. Very quiet and comfortable. It's a 2001 3500HD chassis with a 35" working height ALTEC boom. We bought it out of Tennessee. It was ordered as an AT&T line service truck and the branch closed or something. Anyways, it was tied up in bankruptcy for the last 8 1/2 years. It has 9500 original miles. We paid 1/4 it's value.
I love my bucket truck ;D
RG
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it sounds cool lol i'm thinking the regulator is messed tho that regulator should bulk charge then back off as the battery picks up....35 boom thats 3 storys thats a long ways up!
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I love my bucket truck
me too! 100 foot sutphen tower ladder. ;)
(https://www.myfishfinder.com/fishing_forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj218%2Fpooley_photos%2Fpage-151.jpg&hash=fb1edab82664307bd76eb5fb5166c5b2)
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pooley can i turn on the siren???????????
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Does it have a water cannon? I always wanted to play with a water cannon :w00t:
RG
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The heck with the siren and cannon, I want to climb up that ladder!! ;D
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Ladders...pshaw!
That's why man invented the bucket truck ;D
RG
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So I have two 90 dollar deep cycle batterys on my boat. One I use for just a 40lb thrust minnkota trolling motor. The other is used for starting a 115 merc OB and fish finder, bilge pump, lights, and what ever else. I charge both batterys every time I get in from fishing. I set them both on my napa chargers (auto shut off), but I set them on the 2 amp deep cycle charge. Should I use the 10 amp setting instead? sorry still a bit confused. ???
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When I bought my new battery(deep cycle) it came with instructions that said it should be charged at 20% of output.BB
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WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! YOUR TELLING ME THESE THINGS CAN BE RECHARGED??????? OMG THIS WILL SAVE ME A TON OF MONEY
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RG hit it exactly, smart chargers do the optimum job with 3 stage charging and usually have a maintenence feature as well. Buying 2 deep cycles and alternating them may not be a good idea. The onboard charging feature on some boats are designed to throw a quick charge into a standard starting(automotive) battery.
You are most likely better off using a deep cycle for your 12 volt systems like the depth dfinders,trolling motoers, livewell pump, etc and a cranking battery for starting the engine. A 1 or 1 1/2 amp battery tender
is a real good idea off season too.
Spin
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Thanks Spin....I thought I was speaking Greek to Inuits.
Once again.....Any charger will put some charge into a deep cycle battery. To charge them fully takes a 3 step, regulated charge. No, your boat's alternator will not charge a deep cycle fully. They're designed to bulk charge a cranking battery.
RG
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From all us Inuits.. Thanks R.G I had it backwards. Stupid Batteries...... uh... i had it backwards!
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Greek IS a beautiful language. ;D
RG
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Does it have a water cannon? I always wanted to play with a water cannon :w00t:
RG
it has about 2000 gallons per minute flow a the 2 nozzles on the bucket. one with a smooth bore, and one with a TFT, (fog pattern to straight stream). ;) you can make trenches in the pavement! ;D
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2 cannons............Yeah baby! :w00t:
That's some high tech toy.
RG
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i just got 2 new batterys for my boat i was told on "marine batterys never set charger higher then 20% of amps it could over heat battery ? is that cold amps or cranking? little confused there 750 amp batterys thats a big charger :wacko:
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I think that would be cold cranking amps Trap. ??
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I think its a trickle charge. But, since I just killed a battery, I thought I should ask.
I charge my 12 volt trolling batteries at 10amps on an auto charger Penske. I charge them every 4 weeks in the off season. My boat came with interstate 24 series and my boat and batteries are 6 years old. I have neighbors that tell me they only get 3 years . I use my boat alot more than they do so I beleive I've gotten great service from mine.I think coast guard says change out every 3 years too. Anyway,I haven't heard guys talking about what kind of service life they're getting.
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i just got 2 new batterys for my boat i was told on "marine batterys never set charger higher then 20% of amps it could over heat battery ? is that cold amps or cranking? little confused there 750 amp batterys thats a big charger :wacko:
Batteries usually have an AH rating on them. It's tested at a 20-hour discharge rate. My Exide batteries says 100 AH. My Optima battery says 66 AH. I believe this is the number that's refered to the 20% of.
Cold Cranking Amps is the number of amps a battery can deliver for 30 seconds at 00 F or 32 F. This number can change and the lower number is the result of 00 F.
Reserve Capacity is the amount of minutes a battery can be discharged to 10.5 volts by 25-amp discharge. Most Marine batteries should get you 100 minutes easy.
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bump! good thread.
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This nice weather has charged MY batteries..the boat is fine too ;D
RG
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I worked as the Custemer Servis Manger for ProMariner for years and have worked with many or the Battery Companys setting up charging analogs... Here is some info I hope you find helpful;
In the pass decade, battery charging technology has advanced. The older technology used for charging batteries was a Ferro-Resonant (FR) charger, often called a trickle charger. This type of charger is still very common in the automotive industry. These chargers work by charging at a constant output of 13.8 volts and as the batteries are charged the amperage drops. At 13.8 volts the batteries will charge the first 75% fairly quickly, but the last 25% takes a long time, as the amps trickle in. The closer it gets to being fully charged the slower it chargers. Holding a lead acid battery at 13.8 volt for long periods gases out the batteries, so electrolytes (distilled water) needs constant replacement. If the electrolytes are not replaced the cells will run dry and the lead plates will warp and cause a short, destroying the battery. All the major battery manufacturers recommend against using FR battery chargers. #
The style of charger that all the major battery manufactures recommend is a stepped or multi staged charger. The new stepped chargers charge at a higher voltage and as the batteries become charged, the voltage drops to a lower level. Most all lead acid/ AGM battery manufactures call for their batteries to be charged at about 14.6 volts. At this voltage range batteries will charge quickly, fully and help to de-sulfate the batteries. As batteries discharges sulfates builds up on the plates and make a barrier that current can not flow through. With a higher voltage the sulfate is “knocked” off the plates. A gentle bubbling you see when a lead acid battery is charging is helping to knock the sulfates off the plates. Some chargers even have an equalization phase that runs in the 15-17 volt range to help bring back badly sulfated batteries. The danger of having an equalization phase is that you must not have anything else hooked up to the batteries during this phase or the high voltage may damage your equipment. It is always important to quickly recharge discharged batteries, the longer a battery sits discharged the harder sulfate becomes, shorting the batteries life.
Tight Lines
Allan Butler
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Battery Types- Lead Acid, AGM and Gel.
Lead acid battery technology has been around for generations. They are made, in the simplest of terms, of sheets of lead hanging in a liquid electrolyte (acid). A well made and well maintained lead acid battery is still the cheapest and longest lasting battery. They do have some disadvantages; lead acid batteries can leak, they need to be checked, filled, mounted upright and self discharge when sitting unused. Just to mention a few of the things that need to be taken care of. There are sealed lead acid batteries, but they are a poor choice, since the electrolyte can not be replaced, if any is vented out, as all “sealed” batteries are vented.
The first common alternative to the standard lead acid battery was Gel battery. The electrolyte in the battery is turned into a Gel and sealed, but still vented. This eliminates many of the problems of standard lead acid batteries. With Gel batteries there is nothing to fill and they can be mounted in any direction. One of the biggest differences of a Gel battery is that it must be charged differently from other batteries and should not be charged over 14.1 vols. If it is charged at much more than that, cracks can develop in the Gel and the battery will no longer work.
The newest common battery technology to come alone in the past decade is AGMs, which stands for “Absorbent Glass Mat”. This type of battery comes in two forms; with first manufacturing method, the lead plates are rolled up with a layer of fiberglass like material, so that it looks like a jelly roll to make each cell, giving the battery the “six Pack” look. The second type has the same configuration as standard a lead acid battery, but between each of the layers of lead is the fiberglass like material. In both styles the fiberglass like material is semi saturated with electrolyte, eliminating battery leakage. With each style of manufacturing the layers are compressed and kept under pressure. AGMs are now the most commonly used batteries in electric cars, hybrid cars, military and aviation. Some advantages are; unused they discharging very slowly, they are highly vibration resistant, and in some cases can be recharged and recharded faster than any other batteries. This technology may make Gel batteries obsolete, but only time will tell.
Please note there is a great deal of misinformation and confusion in regards to battery types. Almost all Gel Cell batteries will state that they are Gel on the battery housing and they need to be charged at Gel rates. Many AGM batteries that are sold are confused with Gel batteries; AGM batteries are not gel cells. If you have any concerns or questions about the type of battery you have, contact the battery manufacturer.
Hope you find this helpful
Tight Lines
Allan Butler