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MyFishFinder Tips and Techniques => Fishing Equipment => Electronics => Topic started by: Mac Attack on Oct 14, 2020, 07:15 PM

Title: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 14, 2020, 07:15 PM
Looking at deep cycle storage batteries for the Ulterra, which still hasn't arrived yet.

Anyway, my son Jeff thinks we should go with AGM's for now.
At least until lithium batteries come down in price.

I have read tons!!!
But would certainly like someone's first hand experience here please.
Does a 100ah lithium actually run for 2X the time of a lead acid or AGM equivalent 100ah battery????
Is this really true??

I need to run my Ulterra for like 7-8 hrs, and maybe 10 if I can.
It won't be running at full bore, but still up like at 6-7 out of 10.
This is based on where I used to run the Terrova on the Lund.
(The Honda kicker did most of the work and the Terrova did the steering - but in higher wind/waves situations I needed a higher setting on the Terrova to hold course)

I was thinking a 100ah unit, but there are 200 and even 300 ah units.

Here is an example -

https://www.amazon.com/phosphate-Rechargeable-Charging-Discharging-Performance/dp/B08G8HXNJK/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=100ah%2Blithium%2Biron%2Bphosphate%2B12%2Bvolt%2Bbatteries&qid=1602720057&sr=8-4&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/phosphate-Rechargeable-Charging-Discharging-Performance/dp/B08G8HXNJK/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=100ah%2Blithium%2Biron%2Bphosphate%2B12%2Bvolt%2Bbatteries&qid=1602720057&sr=8-4&th=1)


Anyway, let's get this discussion kicked in high gear.
I'm buying something in the spring and want to do my homework here.
Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 17, 2020, 05:39 PM
(ahem)

 :o
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: zwiggles on Oct 17, 2020, 06:16 PM
You might get more action over on the ICE fishing site: https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php














.....   :whistling:
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 18, 2020, 08:27 AM
Why?
They now using boats and trolling motors?


 :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: SizeMatters on Oct 18, 2020, 09:01 AM
Listen to Jeff........  By the time the AGM's wear out, the lithiums will either be proven and come down in price or the class action suits will be starting......  Maybe inquire on the LOU site.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: zwiggles on Oct 18, 2020, 10:17 AM
Why?
They now using boats and trolling motors?


 :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:

In all seriousness Iím following this thread to see what everyone has to say. Iím debating making the same jump.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 18, 2020, 12:10 PM
Listen to Jeff........  By the time the AGM's wear out, the lithiums will either be proven and come down in price or the class action suits will be starting......  Maybe inquire on the LOU site.

You (and Jeff) are probably right.
Hereís my thoughts.
Has to do with actual use length, not life in years, but real time between charging.
Assuming a 100 Ah lead acid vs a 100 Ah lithium ion battery.
Iím reading that the lead acid voltage falls off a cliff at like 50-60% of the discharge time.  Where the lithium ion holds pretty much the full 12 volts out to 90-95% of the time.
So if Iím out there and get say 6 hrs with lead acid, is it true I could get 10-12 hrs with a lithium ion with the same Ah rating?
Money is always a factor of course.
But I had 4 lead acid batteries wired in series parallel on my Lund to get enough time out there trolling with my 24 volt 80# thrust Terrova.
Granted, I originally only had series 24ís and added a pair of 31ís to them.  So maybe had I had 31ís from the start I would not have needed to add another pair of batteries to them.
This time Iím going with a 36 volt 112# thrust Ulterra and will have three 31ís.
Iím wondering if Iíll run out of power on the longer days out on the water.
Has anyone gone from 31 lead acid to 31 lithium ion and can comment here with first hand experience.
Three 31 lead acid will weigh like 270 pounds.  Adding 2 more to them and Iím up around 550#, plus a 2nd three bank charger.  So maybe 600 pounds down in my cuddy.
The 3 lithium ions will weigh less than 100 total.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 28, 2020, 06:30 PM
Well, it appears Jeff is now interested.
At least to investigate things.

Iíll keep you lamoís updated.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: lowaccord66 on Oct 29, 2020, 07:12 AM
Just use agms mac.  Your not out there trying to win top speed races so the weight difference will make little difference.  I haven't been able to run down 3 group 24's with a 36v system and those a relatively small agms.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Oct 29, 2020, 09:16 AM
Just use agms mac.  Your not out there trying to win top speed races so the weight difference will make little difference.  I haven't been able to run down 3 group 24's with a 36v system and those a relatively small agms.

My Lund had two 24ís in parallel with two 31ís and we would get like 7-8 hrs.
I know that was 24vdc and my new one will be 36vdc, but that Lund was only a 16.6í aluminum open bow vs this 21í fiberglass cuddy.
Old boat and motor was maybe 1500#
New boat is over 3500#

So I need more Ah capacity to get enough time.

Lead acid can only get me 100 Ah
To get more I need 3 more batteries in parallel to them, and another 3 bank charger.
The batteries alone are 65# each
x6 = 390#
Plus the weight of the 2 on board chargers.

Also all the room it all takes up.

Lead acid batteries start dropping off the voltage badly at 50%.
This creates more current and reduces the useable time.
Lithium stay at full voltage down to 10% or lower.

Not the same use comparison between a 100Ah lead acid vs a 100Ah lithium.  The lithium actually gives you more run time with the same Ah believe it or not.

Iím learning a lot.

 8)
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Jan 06, 2021, 08:27 AM
An update on things -

I have been negotiating with a few companies.
I have now chosen the company I will purchase from.

https://www.lithium-battery-factory.com/ (https://www.lithium-battery-factory.com/)


I have been dealing with Carl Wu there.
He speak (writes) english very well.
Also, he has answered all of my questions and as most of you know, I typically have tons of questions!!  lol
So I have really done my homework on this thing.
He has probably answered 100 questions over the past 2 mos.

Here is what Jeff and I have decided on -

LiFePo4 battery - 36 VDC, 200 AH
30 amp charger
Blutooth accessory - allows battery monitoring from smart device (phone, tablet, etc.)

The thing will weigh only about 120 lbs
BTW, 3 series 31's would weigh about 280 lbs
And they would only give me 100 AH
Means I would need over 500 lbs of lead acid batteries to provide the same AH.
So the weight savings is huge.

Lead acid batteries can be had for about $200 each at Samsclub
So 6 x $200 = $1200
Plus core charges and tax....so maybe $1500
I already have the 3 bank charger, but would need a 2nd adding to the cost of things.
So maybe $200 bringing things to $1700.

The LiFePo4 battery, charger, and bluetooth option is $2433 total.

I will be selling my 3 bank charger and should easily get $100 for it lessing that $2433 to $2333.

So the added cost to go with the LiFePo4 is about $6-700

But life should be easily 2-3X
And if things go as they appear, this battery will probably outlast me.

I will be ordering it in the next day or so.
Then the 2 month wait to get it but we don't need it till late March or early April when we pull out the boat and start trolling for browns in Lake O.

I'll keep everyone posted as things progress.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: fishinator on Jan 07, 2021, 06:03 AM
"He speak (writes) english very well."
Too funny.  Sorry I had to
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Jan 07, 2021, 08:13 AM
"He speak (writes) english very well."
Too funny.  Sorry I had to

(s)

Yea, his emails have been like they were written by someone here in the States.
I have not spoken to him.
Maybe he spent a lot of time over here - school maybe.
I've been all over the world, including China.
And most people in the Far East can speak English but it is broken (always to some degree)
But this guy's emails give me the idea that if I spoke to him on the telephone or in person it would be like speaking to someone here in the US.


Of course my english is probably worse than his too.    :o
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Jan 08, 2021, 12:01 AM
I hit a snag tonight when trying to use my cc to make the purchase thru PayPal.
We are using PayPal, and the card, for some added insurance.
Anyway, my cc company is flagging the overseas transaction as fraud and won't allow the transaction.
It was too late as thier fraud dept shuts down at 7pm EST and this was 8pm.
I'll call back in the morning and straighten things out.
I guess I should be happy they are good about monitoring things like this.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Jan 08, 2021, 05:44 PM
I got things straightened out with the cc company and the payment went thru.
Now the 2 month wait for the darn thing.

tick tock
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Mar 14, 2021, 10:38 PM
An update on things.

The three chargers I ordered were delivered last week.
The two 8A units arrived and a 20A.
But I ordered a 30A, not a 20A.
So I sent an email to Carl in China and he responded that he would look into this and get back to me.
I'm sure he will as he has always been very prompt.

The batery has shipped also but cannot be shipped air freight so it's on a ship.
Typically takes 30-35 days to do the trip and clear customs and duties.
Then it goes onto a FedEx truck to get to me.
I have the FedEx tracking number but it won't be worth anything untill they have it in thier hands.
Probably looking at mid to end of April before I see the battery.

tick tock
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Flukeman on Mar 23, 2021, 10:32 AM
Mac I wish I had seen your post sooner. But in case your situation does not work out, here are my experiences. I have the 36v 112# Ultrex and my buddy has 36v 112# Ulterra. We both have 3 Interstate 31's. These new trolling motors are so much more efficient than they used to be. I fish hard on mine for bass tournaments for 9 hours, practice days for 12 to 15 hours and it never flinches. Some of those tournies we are beating the crap out of our trollers in 6 footers, to eating up massive thick weedbeds depending on whether we are chasing smallies or largies..

I have trolled walleyes with my buddy using cranks, dixie spinners, and spoons for a 12 hour day in 1 to 1-1/2 footers with no problems with his trolling motor. Granted I have never done the trolling thing with him in any heavier waves so performance may be different in that case.

These new trolling motors are just amazing on battery usage..
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Mar 23, 2021, 04:53 PM
Yup
Wonít much matter, at 200ah, Iíll have 2x what a set of 31ís would give me.  So I doubt Iíll ever run out of juice.
It shipped 2 weeks back.
Probably be 3-4 more weeks before I hear anything from FedEx
Tick tock.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Apr 17, 2021, 10:33 AM
Just got an update on the lithium battery.
Says it will be delivered by end of the day next Friday.
Woohoo!

 :thumbup_smilie:
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 16, 2021, 09:09 AM
As you all know, it was lost by FedEx way back then.

Anyway, the 2nd one the company built for me is scheduled to arrive at my company later today by FedEx.

We'll see.

Stay tuned to this channel for updates.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 16, 2021, 06:32 PM
It's here.............and it sustained damage during shipment.
(of course it did)
I cannot win.

Not bad and I can repair it easily.
The ceramic/plastic sleave insulator around the negative terminal busted in a dzen pcs and isnt there anymore.
Also the plastic thumb cap on the terminal nut on the same negative terminal cracked off in a few pcs.
I have sent an email to the copany asking what to do.
I did not want to remover the case top until hearing back from them.
We will see what they say.
A good note - the battery tested at 39+ volts on my VOM.


(https://i.postimg.cc/TKP7dvGC/thumbnail-IMG-6167.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKP7dvGC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/18YW473P/thumbnail-IMG-6168.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18YW473P)

(https://i.postimg.cc/94RL9PD9/thumbnail-IMG-6169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94RL9PD9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/67kYf7Zm/thumbnail-IMG-6170.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67kYf7Zm)
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: KingPerch on Aug 16, 2021, 07:43 PM
Sorry to hear of your issues, Mac. We ordered 4 Dakota lithium batteries with no issuesÖ they are performing flawlessly. They shipped when they said they would and sent emails with tracking. Maybe you could give them a shot. Good luck!!
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 16, 2021, 08:57 PM
Sorry to hear of your issues, Mac. We ordered 4 Dakota lithium batteries with no issuesÖ they are performing flawlessly. They shipped when they said they would and sent emails with tracking. Maybe you could give them a shot. Good luck!!


Thanks, but I'm not going to spend another few thousand when I already have a battery.

I have repaired the terminals.
However the bluetooth feature it was supposed to come with is not being seen by either my iphone or the app they had me download.
I have been in contact with the supplier and so far they have been very responsive.
I documented everything in a Word document with tons of photos and descriptions and sent that to them.
Let's see what they come back with.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 16, 2021, 09:46 PM
The Bluetooth and BMS option they used was a newer upgraded version and required a different ap to connect and monitor.
I downloaded the ap and it displays on my iPhone well.
Itís now charging.
Iíll check it in an hour or so and then again in the morning to see how it does.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 17, 2021, 08:10 AM
Just checked it and it's up to 76% SOC (State Of Charge).
It was at 34% last night when I checked it.
The chagrger is only an 8A unit, so it is on schedule according to the simple math I did last night.
It should be fully charged in another 6 hrs or so.
It's a 200Ah battery.
At say 190 Ah depleted, it should take about 23.75 hrs to fully charge.
Typically I only fish one day a weekend, so the 8A charge will work well.
Also, it's always best to charge a battery at a slower rate for best battery life.
I also have a 30A charger for trips when I'm fishing every day and when I need to charge more quickly if and when needed.

So other than a tiny dent, and the temporary terminal insulator fixes I made, the battery is fine.
The company is sending me the correct parts to fix things permanently.

I'm satisfied.

It's been a long road.

I'll post a photo later when I get it put back together.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Jethro on Aug 17, 2021, 08:26 AM
Interesting! Glad to see you finally got it Mac, hope it's all you expect it to be.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: KingPerch on Aug 18, 2021, 06:44 PM
Best of luck, Mac!!
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 18, 2021, 06:51 PM
I brought it out to the lake to install.
Friday.
(Tomorrow the Fair)

Iím stoked to see how it performs.

Stay tuned to this channel.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Aug 28, 2021, 04:44 PM
Ran the battery today for the first time.
It was at 99% when we started and 81% when we quit.
Trolled at my typical setting of 4-4.5 (0-10) on the Ulterra.
Trolled for 4.5 hrs
Used the ipilot most of the time
>95%

So I figured that I used about 4% per hour.  I know thatís not entirely true but the battery voltage stays the same from 99% down to 5-6% they say, soÖ..

In any event, I figure that it will take me like 20 hrs of trolling to use like 80% of the battery.  And that will never happen!

If the 4000-6000 charges are true then this battery is far more cost effective than a LA battery.

I have determined that I didnít need 200ah, but itís nice to know I have tons of reserve.  I will be taking the battery to FL with us to use on my pontoon boat down there.  Itís nice to know if my main engine craps out I have enough juice to use the electric to get home or to safety.

Here are 2 pics of it and the 36V, 8A charger.  BTW, it weighs 120#.


(https://i.postimg.cc/bsnbTfCH/6-C98-A751-9-F13-4367-AC3-F-005-D1-A324219.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsnbTfCH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xqhMM1R1/E1239-FE9-5-C24-487-B-804-F-08943-D9-EF40-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqhMM1R1)



Here is a screen shot of the Bluetooth app on my phone where I can monitor the battery status.  This was while trolling.



(https://i.postimg.cc/PNgvNFXL/864-ED596-6-C18-45-F4-851-A-5-C778-C744092.png) (https://postimg.cc/PNgvNFXL)


And here is a screenshot of it a few minutes ago when I connected the charger to it.  It wasnít yet to the full 8 amps when I captured it.



(https://i.postimg.cc/d7hJ2wnJ/834284-CA-B62-B-464-B-8-BFB-1-EB146057080.png) (https://postimg.cc/d7hJ2wnJ)
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Sep 19, 2021, 09:27 PM
Another update.
Yesterday we trolled almost all day against the wind and waves.  Consequently, I was forced to run the Ulterra up around 5.5-6 setting vs the 4-4.5 where I typically operate.
The SOC said the battery was at 69% when we got back in.
We started trolling about 8am and quit at 1:30
That 5.5 hrs and we used roughly 62ah of the batteryís available 200ah.
That being said, the most obvious thing that stands out is we certainly could have gotten by with a 100ah battery.
Itís great to have the safety factor of the 200ah but it weighs 122 lbs.
A 100ah battery would weight about 65-70lbs.
Overall, I am very happy with this battery and highly recommend them.  Yup, they cost a bunch but I feel they are well worth the investment.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Sep 25, 2021, 10:43 AM
Made up a light fixture to draw down the battery for winter storage.
The manufacturer said I should draw it down to 50-60% SOC and simply disconnect it and leave it in the boat.
Once we move to FL I will take it down there with me but this year I will draw it down like the builder suggested.
The low voltage bulbs are only 18 watts (9 each), so it only draws 1/2 amp.
This means I will need to run them for 7-8 days.


(https://i.postimg.cc/rRNXQjvB/16-D832-E0-BB7-E-4-D82-888-D-12953-E4716-FD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRNXQjvB)
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: taxid on Sep 25, 2021, 07:54 PM
Glad to see you are doing well with the battery!

On a related note the wife bought a new car a couple of months ago. (Volkswagen Taos) Anyway, they had a a Volkwagen all electric charging and although it was not for sale, the salesman said they would be selling only electric Volkswagen vehicles by 2030.  I assume they are lithium batteries? He said they are most efficient at 80 precent charge. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Sep 26, 2021, 09:00 AM
Glad to see you are doing well with the battery!

On a related note the wife bought a new car a couple of months ago. (Volkswagen Taos) Anyway they had a a Volkwagen all electric charging and although it was not for sale, the salesman said they would be selling only electric Volkswagen vehicles by 2030.  I assume they are lithium batteries? He said they are most efficient at 80 precent charge. Does that make sense?

Yup.
And as par as efficiency goes, lithium batteries, specifically LiFePo4 batteries, have a very flat voltage curve.
Unlike lead acid and other batteries.
So they are hugely efficient from 10% up to almost the full 100% because of this.
Lead acid batteries are really not supposed to be used below 50% or they age rapidly.
Most guys using LA deep cycle batteries either don't know this, or simply don't practice this.
The LA batteries then go bad after 3-4 yrs.
But even if a person does only use them to 50% they still don't last much more than 5 yrs or so.
LiFePo4 batteries however are "projected" to last 10-20X that.
They say "projected" because they simply have not been around long enough for hard concrete results in every application.
They are fast becoming used in the world however.
Houses off the grid, motorhomes, boats, emergency back up power sources, and the electric vehicles you spoke about.
There's huge info out there if people want to check them out.

Here is my take.

If this battery I bought is only 50% as good as what the experts are saying, it offset LA batteries cost to me by probably 2-3X.
This doesn't even address the huge weight advantage and other benefits.

I'm thinking about using them in my motor home.
Title: Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery
Post by: Mac Attack on Sep 26, 2021, 03:26 PM
Hereís a screenshot from the app on my iPhone.  It shows I have a .389 amp draw (those 2 led bulbs connected) and a 90% SOC (State Of Charge) after about 30 hrs or so of those light bulbs drawing on the battery.


(https://i.postimg.cc/xq0dFtKv/5-B8-FF394-91-F1-4-A7-A-97-C6-888-C0-B3-BB6-F0.png) (https://postimg.cc/xq0dFtKv)