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Author Topic: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!  (Read 2892 times)

TooLucky406

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Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« on: Jun 08, 2018, 11:06 PM »
 Just fyi to those who plan to fish Gtown with a boat, there is now a $5 fee to launch from Red Bridge, Grassy, Philipsburg Bay, and Piney boat ramp. Folks are monitoring the ramp daily.... as far as fishing report goes, not much happening yet, but manage to hook up several dozen bows later in the afternoon.

spedray

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #1 on: Jun 09, 2018, 07:03 PM »
Are these public launches?

TooLucky406

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #2 on: Jun 09, 2018, 08:11 PM »
These are all Forest Service own boat ramp.  So yes they are public. Not sure if the State own (Stuart  Mill Bay) boat launch cost $$$ or not but you're not going to be able to launch any size boat there.

spedray

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #3 on: Jun 10, 2018, 10:00 AM »
Did they say why they charge a fee now?

TooLucky406

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #4 on: Jun 10, 2018, 10:16 AM »
Like all things, buget cuts mean no additional funding to maintain Rec use on GTown. The boat fee($5) and now ALSO dayuse fee($3 if not boating), is going to be use to up keep Rec sites.

ham_viper

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #5 on: Jun 10, 2018, 08:00 PM »
Thanks for the heads up on this. I am really getting concerned by the fees for use popping up everywhere.

As a hunter and a fisherman, I pay for state lands access as well as my hunting/fishing licenses, and pay for management activities with my conservation permits, I pay a state lands use fee on my vehicle license still I believe as well, I license and register my boat including putting the sticker on when I need it, I also pay the new invasive species fees, I pay state and federal taxes. I have gladly paid all these fees for use as they were for general use and allowed me and anyone else the ability to recreate in the state. 

Most boat launches are already pack it in pack it out, lots of them don't even have a dock or an outhouse, what the heck are they maintaining, and why does there need to be staff there? The launches at the campground already have paid staff supported by the campsite fees.

I am concerned that pay to use will result in keeping those without money away from the recreational areas. We need to be careful with this. Public lands are supposed to be for public use, not for use by those who can afford to pay to use them. I would think something like this should require a vote or a least public input before it was implemented. I thought part of the point of public lands was to share the cost among the many to ensure it was accessible for all.

here is the official information:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/bdnf/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD581396

spedray

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #6 on: Jun 10, 2018, 10:30 PM »
I am in the same boat. Why should we pay to use our own public lands. I feel like even a $3 fee will keep the underprivileged people away. I could see paying a few to use docks but we already pay an access fee through our various license fees. Sad to see this taking place and wonder which place will be next. So now we are paying people to make sure we are paying our fees to use our own land? 

njoy

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #7 on: Jun 12, 2018, 05:26 PM »
Note the launches have been turned to a concessionare to monitor.  Most all forest service campgrounds now are the same. Private business now runs them. Profit motive?

Quantoson

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #8 on: Jun 30, 2018, 03:24 PM »
"concessionare to monitor"  is happening across the USA.  The forest service has leased out the areas to corporations to do as pleased and can even make their self a bylaw and fee schedule without approval.  Almost, if not all, national parks are managed in this method.  This allows them to hire any people and not be required to furnish all Government required benefits, wages, conditions or even citizenship requirements.  Tax payers still pay the up keep, while the "concessionare to monitor" just keeps the till.

I don't pay, just use as historically allowed.  Haven't gotten ticketed or told I must pay yet.  When I am asked by an attendant person inquiring at the area why I have not paid, I just say it is forest service and there is nothing that the law states I must pay, bubye.  Please do the same because this is the introduction of capitalization of public land already subsidized by tax dollars.  Another fee to privatize enterprise of use public land.  I wish they had a Kiss My Brown Butt icon to add here. 8)

Herb Flores

njoy

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #9 on: Jul 01, 2018, 05:00 PM »
YEP! Goose Bay  ramp at Canyon Ferry another example. WAS a public launch even when Reller had the old marina area. Now under the new marina and it is 10 dollars to use the launch :(  unless you camp at the marina. Haven't used it since they took over.

d_smith84

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #10 on: Jul 02, 2018, 08:21 PM »
Interesting conversation. Would like to hear more regarding Quantoson's statement of "I don't pay, just use as historically allowed.  Haven't gotten ticketed or told I must pay yet.  When I am asked by an attendant person inquiring at the area why I have not paid, I just say it is forest service and there is nothing that the law states I must pay, bubye."

I understand the "historical use" idea but not sure how that holds up. Do you have a link to any site that would support this? It's getting to the point where there are fewer places to go and more people using the few places available.

Quantoson

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #11 on: Jul 13, 2018, 06:36 PM »
This is a snippet of a 2016 article of what is going on or I should what has happened in Colorado.  Anywhere you go now in Colorado which is national forest has a fee.  "" day-use fees violate the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, which prohibits the agency from charging for certain access. ""  They started this back in the early 90's in Colorado.
link: https://www.denverpost.com/2012/09/27/private-operators-of-forest-service-recreation-sites-spurs-lawsuit/

The intent is to make this the norm across the USA.  Once they establish the fee from concessionaires, it turns into private enterprise and after a few years everyone is used to it and stops crying and they just keep jacking up the fee.

My take on this:
Every camp ground or recreation area, boat launch has a budget funded by tax dollars.
These tax dollar budgets are given to the concessionaire to operate the area after bidding on the concession (if a bid took place)
All improvement requests are still paid by tax dollars although maintenance is by operator (trash, safety, etc.)
The concessionaire sets fees
The pay to the area caretaker who may not be a valid employee, meaning on contract or seasonal worker, they get a % of fees plus allows for RV to be parked for free, but the pay does not meet Davis Bacon wages by any means which is required by law.

I had a great opportunity to work one of these one summer for a concessionaire.  I went to look at the area and it was the one I was using at least three times a year.  That would have been bogus, charge to launch and camp on public land where I wasn't paying?  I never paid before and still don't.  Around Hungary Horse Res.  This has already taken place.  For a few years already.  On forest service land.

Got this snippet from this link https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/16/6802
(1) Prohibition on fees for certain activities or servicesThe Secretary shall not charge any standard amenity recreation fee or expanded amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters administered by the Bureau of Land Management, the Forest Service, or the Bureau of Reclamation under this chapter for any of the following:
(I) Any person who visits a unit or area under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service and who has been issued a valid migratory bird hunting and conservation stamp issued under section 718b of this title

Reasearch, call Tester, Daines, and the upcoming challenger Rosendale to Testers seat and tell them.





Quantoson

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #12 on: Jul 13, 2018, 06:47 PM »
Interesting conversation. Would like to hear more regarding Quantoson's statement of "I don't pay, just use as historically allowed.  Haven't gotten ticketed or told I must pay yet.  When I am asked by an attendant person inquiring at the area why I have not paid, I just say it is forest service and there is nothing that the law states I must pay, bubye."

I understand the "historical use" idea but not sure how that holds up. Do you have a link to any site that would support this? It's getting to the point where there are fewer places to go and more people using the few places available.

The answer is above on the post (I).  If you have a valid migratory bird hunting and conservation stamp, tell or show them.  EXEMPT!  LOVE having brains to research and over come the obstacles.  Do not be a sheeple. 

ham_viper

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Re: Georgetown Lake Boat Fee!
« Reply #13 on: Jul 15, 2018, 10:34 PM »
The answer is above on the post (I).  If you have a valid migratory bird hunting and conservation stamp, tell or show them.  EXEMPT!  LOVE having brains to research and over come the obstacles.  Do not be a sheeple.

This statement is only for sites managed by US Fish Wildlife and Parks. I think the sites in question are administered by the forest service and are not covered by this provision. Section D-1-A also only applies when under a specific law or treaty so unless you are a Native American or can identify a different law that applies this one also does not work either. I hope someone can dig up a law that would apply here because I still think this sucks. We are going to be Colorado soon if this does not stop. 

 



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