MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => New York => Topic started by: Jack Hunter on May 07, 2010, 04:58 PM
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http://poststar.com/news/local/article_3bd812f2-593e-11df-9ad9-001cc4c03286.html
???
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http://poststar.com/news/local/article_3bd812f2-593e-11df-9ad9-001cc4c03286.html (http://poststar.com/news/local/article_3bd812f2-593e-11df-9ad9-001cc4c03286.html)
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Good! It's been kind of a cough cough thing that people knew he was doing that. I hope this helps clean things up. I remember 2 seasons ago when the guys were busted for being 400 perch over their limit on George, I said the bigger problem is somebody out there is buying them. I hope this helps, if the guys who keep over their limits don't have anywhere to sell to, they'll stop.
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I've bought plenty of bait at his place over the years.
He always seemed like a cool dude. 8)
Dunno if he's guilty or not. If he is, by all means sock it to him.
No matter what way you look at it, it sucks to hear.
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it seems pretty hush hush right now... ill wait for more info. before i make an opinion... i also have used that bait shop on my way to south bay
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i got to say this ...and prchslyr if you feel a need to delete it i understand , no hard feelings ..... seems the dec is more worried about a fish being sold then a honest , american veteren being beatin and almost drowned ...i'm sorry ..... which is more important?????
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Well put trap
How bout the non english speakin folks that don't get tickets cuz its more of a hassle then its worth for the dec??
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I seen the same thing at the beach.I always wondered why they never get a ticket......I'm sure they have a fishing license too.....
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There is nothing wrong with perch fishing except the limits on their catch. Perch are so prolific that if you do not take enough of them they will stunt down. Perch feed on the fry of themselves and walleye etc. The limit should be what you need and can clean yourself. As far as selling them, this nation imports 3 trillion dollars of seafood annually. How about allowing America to buy American fish which belong to everybody, not just license buyers? The DEC knows that the walleye fishing declines when the perch are out of control. Lake Simcoe in Canada put a 50 perch limit on it and license sales dropped 6500 licenses. The perch stunted down and 50 perch would not fill a 5 gallon bucket. Lake Erie gill nets were stopped in 1986. We failed to have a good walleye hatch in the Eastern Basin till 2003. You have to remove the perch to have good walleye and perch fishing.
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While I can't say I have a problem with selling the perch. I have to agree with Trap. Seems NY(DEC) makes a bigger deal out of offenses that regard money not going into the states pocket. I'm sure next you will see a license requirement for selling fish.
I have a couple questions, were the perch from VT. caught on Champlain? We have license overlaps on this lake. Plus if it is the same body of water as the perch the NY. guys were selling him whats the deal. As long as no one was exceeding limits?
Second, are the maybe few thousand dollars the state may get in fines really worth what they have spent to take this guy in and charge him. Article said it has been an ongoing investigation, Wouldn't that money be better spent investigating companies and industry that continue to pollute our waters. Last raid they portrayed in the papers showed dozens of officers, investigators and a whole lot of taxpayer dollars.
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on page 19 of the NYS fishing guide for 2009-10 it lists transportation of fish.
Transportation of fish as designated below is permitted, except while fishing in NY waters:
: No more than 2 days legal take of non-salable fish may be transported unless a permit is obtained from a DEC regional office, or the fish are frozen, precessed and packaged for storage.
: Salable fish may be transported in ANY number!!!!!!!!!!!
You can not keep over your limit of panfish that are salable while on the water fishing, but you may transport any number of salable fish once off the water.
:fish that are salable at any time include.
:Those species in the STATEWIDE ANGLING REGULATIONS table for which there is no closed season or no minimum length.
The state and federal wildlife agencies through scientific research and public opinion set, regulate and oversee fish and game laws. Selling panfish and rough fish IS LEGAL, and is viable for many people on both sides of buying and selling. There are many things in conservation law that I do and dont agree with but selling fish is legal, and if someone is operating outside of the law then they need to be punished accordingly, but lets not make out that fish buyers or sellers are the anti-christ
MTF
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i have spent more time teaching kids to fish ,taking old people ,and helping with stocking then most people have ....i am saying i am a sportsmen ....i also sell panfish...i will never get rich doing so but i will never hurt the envoriment or the fish population either!
every time you see a restrant that offers bullhead or perch dinners,or fire deptments having fish frys,guess what ????
legally selling a legal limit hurts no one , don't blame a whole group for the actions of a few that is the exact way laws get imposed on all of us and gives anti outdoors groups ammo and fuel for the fire
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When all is said and done, we'll find that the issue will have been that Lenny was being watched and charged for dealing in illegal crappies.
Even though it's not his responsibility to police his customers, the issue will be that he was buying crappies from New York fishermen with a Vermont fishing license. These guys catch crappies in Champlain and Saratoga and sell them to Lenny and tell him they were caught in Vermont and all they have to do is show their Vermont fishing license to make the sale legitimate.....ot what they believe to be legitimate.
This has been going on since they made the crappie a game fish back in early 90's (size and number limits)
It created a HUGE black market that is still present today and it's a market that is fueled by demand.
I've known Lenny for more than 25 years. Honeys Bait & Tackle has been a huge benefit to the local economy out there but instead of helping these small businesses stay fluent, the Gov't / DEC tries to sink them every chance they get when there are real violators of much more serious laws that always seem to go overlooked / unseen ::) ::)
This whole fish buying situation could be a benefit to the states economy if they'd just open their eyes and do what's right. NY should offer / require a $50 to $100 Hook & Line commercial fishing license with a card system just like food stamps or public assistance.
You can't sell fish unless you have the card and it needs to be swiped through a scanner for every sale ! # .1, this would eliminate much of the riff raff who fish and sell illegally from coming into these bait shops to sell their fish as most of them are too cheap to buy a commercial license and/or they won't buy one because they're collecting disability, SSI, Welfare, Unemployment and fear of loosing their gravy benefits. It would take a huge burden off the bait shop owners backs plus, it would allow the DEC to monitor the amount of fish (different species) being sold which would help them in their research.
Maybe a small fee from each fisherman's catch and from each dealer from every sale could go to restocking programs or habitat improvement programs for the waters where the fish are being taken !
I know it's adding more laws/fee's to the books and I hate the thought of it but they could be laws/fee's that help both the fishermen/women who never sells a fish to the guys who sell everything (Within the Legal Limits) that they catch.
Having been part of the fish buying/selling system for many years, I see things from both sides of the fence. Good and bad on both sides. The one thing that would be bad for both sides is if they totally ban the sale of all fish.
Not only would it have an impact on the quality of the fishing that we have here in New York but it would create a black market so big that the DEC could never control it and by their track record in recent years, they're not know for their stellar performance in enforcing the fish laws "according to the book".
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and i have to say , i have known gamma for years and he is a honest sportsmen and he may know a little bit on this subject ......
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and i have to say , i have known gamma for years and he is a honest sportsmen and he may know a little bit on this subject ......
Thanks old timer but........did you bang you head getting out of bed this morning ? :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
All BS'ing aside, I've been on both sides of this issue and both sides of the law while partaking in the business. Seen it all ....many times ::) ::) ::) ::) The people you rely on to be the good guys (Gang Green) end up being the bad guys becuase they don't know and understand the laws they're trying to enforce !
Trapper is right on the money with his last post !
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Good post Gamma for sure.
I personally would never sell my catch simply because I love eating fish so much. I have no issues with the buying or sales of fish.
We just need to remember that we're only seeing what the media has put out so far before we bash the DEC or Lenny.
The dude was always good to me when I went in there, so I won't pass judgement.
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One problem of buying fish is the source where the fish came from. Lots of people fish the areas coming out of Onondaga lake that are full of sunfish, how would you like your next perch or panfish dinner coming from there?
Another thing is unscrupulous fish buyers , like Lake fish was in the 80's buying up eels and sending them to Canada to sell as foodstuffs. You get a lot of corruption that way as well. Some smaller waters cannot handle the impact of perch or panfish selling at all, I say keep it in the Great lakes. It is a fact that $$$ fishing decimated the perch population in the 80's on Oneida, and since lake fish closed the perch have never been better. Every year the perch get bigger, and you can limit out out on those tasty jumbos.
A friend of mine sold some sunfish locally here in the area, and he brought 85 of them to the shop. He made like he caught them all, which he did not. He sold them for 28 dollars or something thereabouts. The guy who bought the fish who is new to the business said, "I'll buy fish like that from you all day", wink wink. He is on this forum sometimes, and he knows what i'm talking about. Just a matter of time before they get him on a shady deal.
It's all bad business I think, unless it's in lakes that can handle it. If someone posts in a dumb way that he is killing sunfish in a small pond or something here. The money guys will clean it out in a week, that's why the crappie fisherman are so darn secretive.
Can't say I never sold a fish to Lake fish as a kid to buy gas and bait, and or some beer. But I was 16-18 years old at the time, and we all grow up. Eat those sunfish and perch I say, or give them to grandma or the old lady next door. They will appreciate them a lot more than the cat food companies. Lots of old fishermen here and there who don't fish anymore, give them the extra perch you get. Better yet go down to the local VFW and put on a perch fry for the old farters.
cny
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One problem of buying fish is the source where the fish came from. Lots of people fish the areas coming out of Onondaga lake that are full of sunfish, how would you like your next perch or panfish dinner coming from there?
This is where the $100.00 hook and line commercial license would help. The unethical scum bags who knowingly fish those waters (even though the consumption ban has been lifted for years) are the same ones who would never buy a $100.00 license and have their catches recorded and monitored.
Another thing is unscrupulous fish buyers , like Lake fish was in the 80's buying up eels and sending them to Canada to sell as foodstuffs. You get a lot of corruption that way as well. Some smaller waters cannot handle the impact of perch or panfish selling at all, I say keep it in the Great lakes. It is a fact that $$$ fishing decimated the perch population in the 80's on Oneida, and since lake fish closed the perch have never been better. That statement is ABSOLUTELY FALSE and it can be veryfied by speaking directly to the biologists who've monitored and studied the lake for years. Lars Ruudstam would be a good start if you want the solid FACTS.
Year after year of low water levels after the early 80's bonanza was the biggest factor in the declining perch populations. I can't remember the numbers but the perch population was in the "Millions" back then and it was quoted by the biologists that in no way possible, could hook and line fishing/selling hurt the perch fishery on Oneida. What you fail to mention is that while the heyday of fish selling was in full swing, there were mom and pop bait shops and other businesses all over the area that were beneficial for the local economies. Where are they now ? And it's not because the Wal Marts and Bass Pro Shops.
The bottom line is that Hook & Line commercial fishing has NEVER been detrimental to the waterways of New York State. Maybe some small ponds have been beaten to death buit again, it's the few unethical scum bags who do this.
Every year the perch get bigger, and you can limit out out on those tasty jumbos.
Thank the Zebra Mussels for that !
A friend of mine sold some sunfish locally here in the area, and he brought 85 of them to the shop. Doesn't make a difference if he brought 850 sunfish into the shop. The NYS law states that fish that are legal to sell can be transported in any number........Period ! [/b]
He made like he caught them all, And what point was he trying to prove by doing that ?which he did not.
He sold them for 28 dollars or something thereabouts. The guy who bought the fish who is new to the business said, "I'll buy fish like that from you all day", wink wink. Again, what are you trying to prove ? It's not up to the fish buyer to determine if the fish seller is a pirate or not. Too many variables involved . If someone walked into my shop with 85 big sunfish, I'd say I'll buy fish from you like that all day as well ! It's legal....and the law ! He is on this forum sometimes, and he knows what i'm talking about. Just a matter of time before they get him on a shady deal. Now you're reaching for something that isn't there. Maybe you should park outside of his door and monitor every fish seller who comes in and inform them of your intent and opinions. It's totally legal to protest in this state so start waving your signs
It's all bad business I think, Really ? Seems more like an uneducated guess to me !unless it's in lakes that can handle it. If someone posts in a dumb way that he is killing sunfish in a small pond or something here. Key word DUMB The money guys will clean it out in a week, that's why the crappie fisherman are so darn secretive.
So now you're accusing every crappie fisherman of seeling their fish illegally ? Open you eyes ! It's more about protecting private access and saving the fishery from the unethical scum bags who'll exploit it.
Can't say I never sold a fish to Lake fish as a kid to buy gas and bait, and or some beer. But I was 16-18 years old at the time, and we all grow up.
Eat those sunfish and perch I say, or give them to grandma or the old lady next door. What's the difference ? They're still being taken out of the system ! Do you actually believe that if you give 50 perch or sunfish to a little old lady that the ecosystem will recover faster and be happy !
They will appreciate them a lot more than the cat food companies. Right ! And Grandma and the other little old ladies are going to hire you and pay your salary when you need a job too !! Those cat food companies are huge employers and are part of the economic circle that keeps people employed.
Lots of old fishermen here and there who don't fish anymore, give them the extra perch you get. Better yet go down to the local VFW and put on a perch fry for the old farters.
Finally......something that makes sense !
cny
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Stop right in Hudson Falls at Country Pets , you will find the prices are a hole lot cheaper too !
it seems pretty hush hush right now... ill wait for more info. before i make an opinion... i also have used that bait shop on my way to south bay
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Think I'll go kill a pikerel.
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i couldn't say it better myself gamma! it's time to look at the facts and not emotionalism and personal opinions it sure never hurt shamo and henderson bays! stop blaming a guy that sells a limit of bluegills on your inability to catch fish! and most panfish are sold for humane consumption not catfood ... and by the way the vfw's membership is now 85% under 60 ...there were 2 bait shops in fulton , ran for years while crappies were legal to sell and the lake took the pressure ...lot of fisherman , took crappies and white perch ,once crappies couldn't be sold the fishing ended ...now the lak is full of tiny white perch and theres signs to kill any you catch,the bait shops are gone and the city lost money....now thats a true story .... people with good intentions and strong beliefs have cost this state money and fish..... look at the number of boats on lake ontario!
also unless you were in the store when your friend sold the fish thats hearsay and if you were in there while he sold the fish and you believed that was illegal then you were a knowing acomplise ....there for with all due respect ,thats being a hypocrite
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pickerel on the flyrod!!!!!!!
RG google crease flys man easy to ty and great for pike pickerel and bass ....get some leader called toothy critter ;D
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Instead of speculating just go read the warrant. Its public record. If anyone can get a hold of it please post it.
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as someone who has sold fish to leonard in the past, i can honestly say he counted to make sure we were not over our limit of perch. also is it illegal to sell crappies in ny if caught in vt and u have a vt license? no one can prove where they were caught, so if it's legal to sell them in ny he has done nothing wrong. also have never seen him buy anything that he was not supposed to like walleyes, bass, pike or trout. if he is in the wrong then he should pay for it but at this pt. no one really knows.........personally i hope it works out for him. and for the record i have not sold any fish in at least 3-4 years to him.
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There is nothing wrong with perch fishing except the limits on their catch. Perch are so prolific that if you do not take enough of them they will stunt down. Perch feed on the fry of themselves and walleye etc. The limit should be what you need and can clean yourself. As far as selling them, this nation imports 3 trillion dollars of seafood annually. How about allowing America to buy American fish which belong to everybody, not just license buyers? The DEC knows that the walleye fishing declines when the perch are out of control. Lake Simcoe in Canada put a 50 perch limit on it and license sales dropped 6500 licenses. The perch stunted down and 50 perch would not fill a 5 gallon bucket. Lake Erie gill nets were stopped in 1986. We failed to have a good walleye hatch in the Eastern Basin till 2003. You have to remove the perch to have good walleye and perch fishing.
Right on Jim, I was one of the deserters off Simcoe when the reduced from 100 to 50. Now theres no reason to go there for 50 nine inchers, nine inchers can be caught anywhere. Fewer panfish = larger panfish. Lets look at Chatauqua in the next 2 years. Its success caused an inflow of anglers who pounded a lake with stunted 9 inchers.(some say the white perch dessimated the eyes so yellow perch abound.) Hey, i was down there and did my part. I,ll bet next season shows some nice 11-12,s because of its notoriety in 2009-2010
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Fishermen have been selling their catch since the dawn of time. They feed their families with some of the catch and them take care of their families with the money from the rest of the catch.
Their are pirates in everything that we do, guys that kill deer on their wives license, shoot too many turkeys in the spring etc, etc. I dont agree with fishing for steelhead in the spring or browns in the fall while they are spawning but our state says that it is legal though many others dont. I dont go on to the SR bs thread and bash all the steelie fishermen for something they are doing that is perfectly legal.
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If he has done nothing wrong he has nothing to worry about. But throw the book at all that are involved with the black market of fish. Enough is Enough. I'm sick and tired of these low lifes that rape the land and water. Put them in jail give their kids to social services and take their welfare away.
When all is said and done, we'll find that the issue will have been that Lenny was being watched and charged for dealing in illegal crappies.
Even though it's not his responsibility to police his customers, the issue will be that he was buying crappies from New York fishermen with a Vermont fishing license. These guys catch crappies in Champlain and Saratoga and sell them to Lenny and tell him they were caught in Vermont and all they have to do is show their Vermont fishing license to make the sale legitimate.....ot what they believe to be legitimate.
This has been going on since they made the crappie a game fish back in early 90's (size and number limits)
It created a HUGE black market that is still present today and it's a market that is fueled by demand.
I've known Lenny for more than 25 years. Honeys Bait & Tackle has been a huge benefit to the local economy out there but instead of helping these small businesses stay fluent, the Gov't / DEC tries to sink them every chance they get when there are real violators of much more serious laws that always seem to go overlooked / unseen ::) ::)
This whole fish buying situation could be a benefit to the states economy if they'd just open their eyes and do what's right. NY should offer / require a $50 to $100 Hook & Line commercial fishing license with a card system just like food stamps or public assistance.
You can't sell fish unless you have the card and it needs to be swiped through a scanner for every sale ! # .1, this would eliminate much of the riff raff who fish and sell illegally from coming into these bait shops to sell their fish as most of them are too cheap to buy a commercial license and/or they won't buy one because they're collecting disability, SSI, Welfare, Unemployment and fear of loosing their gravy benefits. It would take a huge burden off the bait shop owners backs plus, it would allow the DEC to monitor the amount of fish (different species) being sold which would help them in their research.
Maybe a small fee from each fisherman's catch and from each dealer from every sale could go to restocking programs or habitat improvement programs for the waters where the fish are being taken !
I know it's adding more laws/fee's to the books and I hate the thought of it but they could be laws/fee's that help both the fishermen/women who never sells a fish to the guys who sell everything (Within the Legal Limits) that they catch.
Having been part of the fish buying/selling system for many years, I see things from both sides of the fence. Good and bad on both sides. The one thing that would be bad for both sides is if they totally ban the sale of all fish.
Not only would it have an impact on the quality of the fishing that we have here in New York but it would create a black market so big that the DEC could never control it and by their track record in recent years, they're not know for their stellar performance in enforcing the fish laws "according to the book".
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yea ive had nothing but good things to say about leonard. ive got good quality bait and hes always a pleasent guy to me. i hope things work out for him. i hate our govt somethime. always lookin for the small guy to take down. >:(
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Whiners and snitches ....... Mostly its all about jealousy. They will whine OHHHH the Fishery .....Oh the Fishery .....But mostly they are just upset they can not catch the same amount of fish.
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I don't think jealousy has anything to do with it. If you break the law you pay the price. I have no problem with the sale of fish just those that are taking feed bags full and selling them for profit. If you take the market away and there is no profit it slows down the law breakers. It is things llke this that gives the anti's more ammo. If we don't police ourselves the anti's will put us out of business. As far as being upset because I can't catch the same amount of fish yea right.
Whiners and snitches ....... Mostly its all about jealousy. They will whine OHHHH the Fishery .....Oh the Fishery .....But mostly they are just upset they can not catch the same amount of fish.
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bottom line is,this gives anti-sportsmen more fuel!i hate to see any kind of bat press.we need to help educate and get the good word out.join your local fish and games and write you representitaves,write to your editors.we need more good press.
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I don't think jealousy has anything to do with it. If you break the law you pay the price. I have no problem with the sale of fish just those that are taking feed bags full and selling them for profit. If you take the market away and there is no profit it slows down the law breakers. It is things llke this that gives the anti's more ammo. If we don't police ourselves the anti's will put us out of business. As far as being upset because I can't catch the same amount of fish yea right.
bottom line is,this gives anti-sportsmen more fuel!i hate to see any kind of bat press.we need to help educate and get the good word out.join your local fish and games and write you representitaves,write to your editors.we need more good press.
Anti's Blah Blah Blah ... Same song over and over ....Here is a news flash for you ...... It is there religion, nothing you do is going to make them have a change of heart.
Feed bags full huh ? Really ? ...I would love to see that. Gee maybe we should stop the sale of salt water fish also ..... Dont want to get the Anti's upset with us ...... Oh thats right ...they like sushi.
I tell you what ... You dont tell me what to do with my fish .....I wont tell you to stop whining .....
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i don't just believe storm is right i know he is !
i was fishing the pond in fair haven a few years ago and killing the fish this was pre limit days!
was some older guys there so i even took my auger and drilled extra holes and never said a work that they were hopping in mine , my friend and i killed the gills and crappies i offered some to these "gentlemen" who said no....during the day we would hook largemouths and then release them... on of these gentllemen that couldn't catch fish called the DEC reported us for keeping bass and for fishing in his holes!......now i offered fish ,cut these guys holes and they still did that..... i was checked,my truck checked ,no bass no tickets,,,jealousy yes why does anyone care what another man does with his limit!!!!! and why is a sponcer of this site even being questioned?
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Wellsley you're 100% right. That's all I'll say in appreciation of prchslr's efforts to clean things up!
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Thanks jona.
Guys we're all entitled to our opinions. Let's just try to do it without slinging mud at each other on here.
So far, we're cool, but I forsee this thread going down the tubes real quick.
Let's keep it cool fellas. This is well worth discussing.
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No doubt the guys whining about selling fish, are the same ones that whine when someone shoots a deer that is further then 20 yards and not perfectly broadside. (Because they don't practice at 50)
And voted for Obama ;D
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Thanks jona.
Guys we're all entitled to our opinions. Let's just try to do it without slinging mud at each other on here.
So far, we're cool, but I forsee this thread going down the tubes real quick.
Let's keep it cool fellas. This is well worth discussing.
What is the deal ? It is called debating .... I am getting so tired of all this touchy feely crap ..... So any thread that gets heated you are going to call a time out and ask for a group hug ?
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easy there guys. this is suppost to be a discussion not an argument. ;) lets stop blaming eachother and talk about the topic at hand
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Don't forget guys this thread's about a shop allegedly illegally buying fish, whether it's buying from a person over their limit or catching out of state or whatever. Wellsley's argument specifically stated he has no problem with the sale of fish, not what this is about.. Like he said if the guy's buying fish 100% legal let him be. If he's breaking the law then yes punish him. Nobody's above the law doesn't matter who you are.
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good point jona..
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Well I want pikerel killing yesterday...think I'll try catfishing...I have some trout in the freezer. .
Man we're turning into a bunch of reactionaries. This is the same old thread and the same old crazy arguments.
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rg
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Don't forget guys this thread's about a shop allegedly illegally buying fish, whether it's buying from a person over their limit or catching out of state or whatever. Wellsley's argument specifically stated he has no problem with the sale of fish, not what this is about.. Like he said if the guy's buying fish 100% legal let him be. If he's breaking the law then yes punish him. Nobody's above the law doesn't matter who you are.
Really ? Show us where he says that in his posts ......
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the actual idea that people that sell fish are on welfare and are scum is total bull... you are putting yourseld above other people and thats being judgemental ... i sell fish i have never collected a penny in welfar ,have supported more sportsmens organzations then i can mention , been invovoled in stocking programs and help children fish ...... i find the comments of "welfare both rude and uneducated" you have become exactly what you hate ....someone making judgements and taking away another mans way of enjoying the outdoors ...anotherwords you have entered the same world and way of thinking as a peta memeber ..... biolgist both state and federal have stated hook and line commercial fishing can not harm a fishery ....... it's been going on more years then you been alive .... and i am not stating opinions, i'm stating facts ! a few here are stating pure emotionalism ......
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RG catfishing has been good here ....not sure about tonight with the cold front but i'm going to try ....catfish 4 sale 2 for a buck while supply last
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the actual idea that people that sell fish are on welfare and are scum is total bull... you are putting yourseld above other people and thats being judgemental ... i sell fish i have never collected a penny in welfar ,have supported more sportsmens organzations then i can mention , been invovoled in stocking programs and help children fish ...... i find the comments of "welfare both rude and uneducated" you have become exactly what you hate ....someone making judgements and taking away another mans way of enjoying the outdoors ...anotherwords you have entered the same world and way of thinking as a peta memeber ..... biolgist both state and federal have stated hook and line commercial fishing can not harm a fishery ....... it's been going on more years then you been alive .... and i am not stating opinions, i'm stating facts ! a few here are stating pure emotionalism ......
Game Set and Match ! Well said Trapper .......But for the love of God use the spell checker !!!!!!! :w00t: :flag: :thumbup_smilie: :clapping:
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don't know how stormy i'm dyslexic .... i leave it the way i write it for one reason .... if i can show one child with the same challenge hat he (or she) can do anything they set there mind too ...then it's all worth it to me ;D now you calm down a bit and you can go fishing with me and HT ;D
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You guys will have to pardon me for attempting to keep the peace around here.
Commercial hook and line fishing doesn't hurt the fisheries at all within the regs. Those same biologists and ecos decided commercial hook and line fishing for craps does indeed geatly affect our fisheries. That's why it isn't legal anymore in NY. I've got a hunch this was the issue behind the "raid".
Again, ill say the guy always treated me well. But, if he's in trouble for doing something illegal, I'm not going to have any compassion for him.
If his shop gets shut down, its his own fault. Noone elses.
Game, set, match???
I didn't know we were looking for a winner.
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RG catfishing has been good here ....not sure about tonight with the cold front but i'm going to try ....catfish 4 sale 2 for a buck while supply last
I WILL TAKE THEM ALL ;)
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You guys will have to pardon me for attempting to keep the peace around here.
Commercial hook and line fishing doesn't hurt the fisheries at all within the regs. Those same biologists and ecos decided commercial hook and line fishing for craps does indeed geatly affect our fisheries. That's why it isn't legal anymore in NY. I've got a hunch this was the issue behind the "raid".
Again, ill say the guy always treated me well. But, if he's in trouble for doing something illegal, I'm not going to have any compassion for him.
If his shop gets shut down, its his own fault. Noone elses.
Game, set, match???
I didn't know we were looking for a winner.
NOT THE REASON WHY IT'S NOT LEGAL IN N.Y. ANY MORE THE TRUE REASON IS THE SAME REASON WHY THE D.E.C. IS TRYING TO INFORCE A COMMISSION ON TRAPPER FUR SALE'S IS BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY THAT IS EXCHANGED AND THE STATE SEE'S NO MONEY IN THERE POCKET JUST ANOTHER FACT OF A MONEY HUNGRY STATE!
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You guys will have to pardon me for attempting to keep the peace around here.
Commercial hook and line fishing doesn't hurt the fisheries at all within the regs. Those same biologists and ecos decided commercial hook and line fishing for craps does indeed geatly affect our fisheries. That's why it isn't legal anymore in NY. ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE ! The squeaky wheel with the deepest pockets are what changed the laws pertaining to the sale of crappies. Some property owners on a few perrenial crappie hot spot lakes were the ones who pushed for the DEC to change the ruling. These same people had political connections and personal agendas topped off by unlimited funds that got pushed to the right people. If you do the research, you'll find that there are and have been NO STUDIES ON THE EFFECTS OF HOOK & LINE COMMERCIAL FISHING / SALE OF CRAPPIES IN NEW YORK STATE !! This legislation was started and fueled by a small group of people and their funds funneled to politicians that could be bought and get the job done. Those same people who faught to get the law imposed are the same ones who sit in their beautiful lakeside homes and call the DEC and complain that people are taking limits of fish from "THEIR" lakes and that there will be no fish left for their children and grandchildren ! All the while their kids are out snowboarding or playing video games ! It's the YUPPIE WAY ! Their mind set is.......If I can't do it, nobody else should be able to either ! It's a combination of jealousy, ignorance and greed !I've got a hunch this was the issue behind the "raid".
Again, ill say the guy always treated me well. But, if he's in trouble for doing something illegal, I'm not going to have any compassion for him.
If his shop gets shut down, its his own fault. Noone elses.
Game, set, match???
I didn't know we were looking for a winner.
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Regardless of WHY the laws exist. They are exactly that. Laws.
If he wasn't following them, he's going to get in trouble. Plain and simple.
I'm just saying I'm not going to have any compassion if that is the case.
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Regardless of WHY the laws exist. They are exactly that. Laws.
If he wasn't following them, he's going to get in trouble. Plain and simple.
I'm just saying I'm not going to have any compassion if that is the case.
Then you shouldn't have posted this : Those same biologists and ecos decided commercial hook and line fishing for craps does indeed geatly affect our fisheries. That's why it isn't legal anymore in NY.
Most likely, Lenny will be fine ! I've seen this happen too many times where a disgruntled poacher isn't happy because the price of fish went down (it fluctuates with the seasons) after he exerted time and effort to catch the mother lode ! These guys feel as though THEIR FISH are worth more than anyone elses. They're the first ones who'll tell you that the guy down the road is paying more or that the other guy is buying smaller fish ! ::) ::) ::) It's these few (and very few) unethical scum bags who are responsible for the ban on the sale of crappies.
Their first move after finding out that the fish buyer isn't paying what they feel they deserve is to make that phone call and try to burn the guy who's been putting money in their pockets for years.
Once again, they pinched Lenny but I can guarantee that this was just a move to get the chain of scum bags who're responsible for selling illegal crappies (ones that were said to be caught in Vermont) Once the DEC goes through those little black books, the true law breakers will be dealt with and it most likely won't be Lenny !
This could all blow up in the DEC's face as well. When they had an undercover officer apply for a job at Lake Fish Co in C.Square years ago, the officer encouraged fishermen to bring in illegal fish. Some did and those were the guys who were the main target
They pinched the shop owner and some others but after the courts were finished with their work, it was a wasted effort locally !
Mostly appearance tickets and small fines issued for a few (Because there were only a few breaking the law out of hundreds of fishermen)
The scum bags continued to fish and sell illegal catches and the legitimate fishermen and occassional sellers were scared away which eventually caused another local long time business to close down and hurt a small town economy.
Honey's Bait & Tackle has generated tons of money for the local economy in and around the Whitehall area for many years. It would be a shame if he has to close due to the abuse of authority and power or political agendas. Unfortunately, that's the way New Yorks Government works :evil: :evil: :police: :police: :flag: :flag: ??? ???
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Really ? Show us where he says that in his posts ......
Re: Bait Shop Raid
« Reply #31 on: Today at 10:28 AM » Reply with quote
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I don't think jealousy has anything to do with it. If you break the law you pay the price. I have no problem with the sale of fish just those that are taking feed bags full and selling them for profit. If you take the market away and there is no profit it slows down the law breakers. It is things llke this that gives the anti's more ammo. If we don't police ourselves the anti's will put us out of business. As far as being upset because I can't catch the same amount of fish yea right.
The comment I made about giving their kids to social services and taking their welfare away was insensitive. I don't know who is breaking the law and it could very well be some rich businessman with a big ego that likes to catch alot of fish. My point is that those that are breaking the law need to be stopped. And by any legal means . Here in the county I live in a guy was caught jacking deer. He was caught, 35 bucks were taken. You don't think that didn't have an effect on the hunting in that area. Sure most anyone could go out at night before the season and shoot a ton of deer. I just can't see what makes this an OK thing to do. If you need the meat why only shoot bucks. It was thought he was selling them to city hunters but it couldn't be proven.
If the illegal sale of fish continues the state will be forced to stop the sale of fish then those that do so legally will suffer for what a few have done.
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Thanks jona.
Guys we're all entitled to our opinions. Let's just try to do it without slinging mud at each other on here.
So far, we're cool, but I forsee this thread going down the tubes real quick.
Let's keep it cool fellas. This is well worth discussing.
Thanks for the reminder prchslyr I will try not to sling mud and just keep to my opinions.
My point that I've been trying to make is if the illegal sale of fish continues the state will make laws to stop it. The people who will suffer the most are the law abiding fisherman. So when this happens who will be complaining then. As far as the bait shop at worst he will likely just have to pay a fine.
I agree with gamma's
Once again, they pinched Lenny but I can guarantee that this was just a move to get the chain of scum bags who're responsible for selling illegal crappies (ones that were said to be caught in Vermont) Once the DEC goes through those little black books, the true law breakers will be dealt with and it most likely won't be Lenny !
Thae fact that they have Vermont and the fed's in on this could mean more serious charges for someone. I wouldn't want to be one of those scum bags gamma is refering to.
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Re: Bait Shop Raid
« Reply #31 on: Today at 10:28 AM » Reply with quote
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Quote
I don't think jealousy has anything to do with it. If you break the law you pay the price. I have no problem with the sale of fish just those that are taking feed bags full and selling them for profit. If you take the market away and there is no profit it slows down the law breakers. It is things llke this that gives the anti's more ammo. If we don't police ourselves the anti's will put us out of business. As far as being upset because I can't catch the same amount of fish yea right.
The comment I made about giving their kids to social services and taking their welfare away was insensitive. I don't know who is breaking the law and it could very well be some rich businessman with a big ego that likes to catch alot of fish. My point is that those that are breaking the law need to be stopped. And by any legal means . Here in the county I live in a guy was caught jacking deer. He was caught, 35 bucks were taken. You don't think that didn't have an effect on the hunting in that area. Sure most anyone could go out at night before the season and shoot a ton of deer. I just can't see what makes this an OK thing to do. If you need the meat why only shoot bucks. It was thought he was selling them to city hunters but it couldn't be proven.
If the illegal sale of fish continues the state will be forced to stop the sale of fish then thosejust th that do so legally will suffer for what a few have done.
I have no problem with the sale of fish just those that are taking feed bags full and selling them for profit.
So I guess you do have a problem with the sale of fish...... Why else would you sell something except for PROFIT...... I know Profit is a dirty word in today's Progressive lexicon .... Wow so sad to see.....
And how do you know how many day's catch is in that full " feed bag?" Using the example of the guy shooting bucks is so lame .... Selling fish is LEGAL.
Let me ask you a question .... How many days in a row do you think a man can catch 50 plus fish of anything ?
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i believe fish that can be sold can be transported in any number and sold in any number....trouble is there are a small percentage of guys that for what ever reason feel a need to stick there noses in other peoples business truth is most people fishing for panfish won't admit it but we sell them!!!! get off your high horses ....
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So I guess you do have a problem with the sale of fish...... Why else would you sell something except for PROFIT...... I know Profit is a dirty word in today's Progressive lexicon .... Wow so sad to see.....
I don't have a problem with anyone taking there limit and selling it for profit. I have seen someone take feedbags full of fish out in one day.
And how do you know how many day's catch is in that full " feed bag?" If your catching your legal limit then fine. Using the example of the guy shooting bucks is so lame .... Selling fish is LEGAL. If caught legally.
Let me ask you a question .... How many days in a row do you think a man can catch 50 plus fish of anything ? That would depend on where and when. I only keep what I will eat and release everything else. But when the bullheads come in the bay in the spring it not that hard. Same thing for the sunnys, gils and perch. As far as a number of days I can only say that I myself have had years that 7 days in a row I have caught 50 or more fish. But usually the weather doesn't cooperate for that long.
It appears that you are one who sells fish. I hope you do well with it. I don't have a problem with you or anyone else selling fish as long as you are doing it legally. If anyone is breaking the law and you have sold to honey's bait shop I wouldn't be surpised if you don't get a knock on the door soon.
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So I guess you do have a problem with the sale of fish...... Why else would you sell something except for PROFIT...... I know Profit is a dirty word in today's Progressive lexicon .... Wow so sad to see.....
I don't have a problem with anyone taking there limit and selling it for profit. I have seen someone take feedbags full of fish out in one day.
And how do you know how many day's catch is in that full " feed bag?" If your catching your legal limit then fine. Using the example of the guy shooting bucks is so lame .... Selling fish is LEGAL. If caught legally.
Let me ask you a question .... How many days in a row do you think a man can catch 50 plus fish of anything ? That would depend on where and when. I only keep what I will eat and release everything else. But when the bullheads come in the bay in the spring it not that hard. Same thing for the sunnys, gils and perch. As far as a number of days I can only say that I myself have had years that 7 days in a row I have caught 50 or more fish. But usually the weather doesn't cooperate for that long.
It appears that you are one who sells fish. I hope you do well with it. I don't have a problem with you or anyone else selling fish as long as you are doing it legally. If anyone is breaking the law and you have sold to honey's bait shop I wouldn't be surpised if you don't get a knock on the door soon.
You make a lot of assumptions wellsley most of which are wrong....... I am pretty much done with this tread ... You talk in circles and do not stand by your previous statements.
One thing I did learn from this conversation is .... If I was fishing in your area and saw you on the water ....I would avoid you like the plague. I wouldn't want you to make an incorrect assumption about me and drop a dime to the Man ......
I will ask one more question .... Do you have any links for all this illegal fish selling you keep telling us about ?
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Really ? Show us where he says that in his posts ......
It's in a quote you used from him, top of page 3.
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Just my 2 cents i love fishing crappie so much that at times when i cant get um on rubber i will use fatheads. About 8 years ago i built a small pond and bought a pound of fats and started raising my own. Then the state told us we would have to use certified bait. At honeys thats 10.00 a cup and i can only use them for 9 days. So now when im fishing for craps i keep enough gills to sell to lenny to pay for the fats. I believe dec will continue to shove these stupid rules down are throats. I no a lot of guys i work with sell perch and gills out of champlain in the winter when there laid off to help out with bills, i see nothing wrong with it. I do have a problem with the fact a fishing licence cost my wife 29.00 bucks to fish 3 or 4 times a year. Tight lines every one.
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so no one ever got a mc filet of fish sandwich huh?
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" I no a lot of guys i work with sell perch and gills out of champlain in the winter when there laid off to help out with bills, i see nothing wrong with it. "
it's legal, it's morel,it's even biblical ....there is nothing wrong with it!
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You all make a lot of assumptions. Bickering like a bunch of pre-menopausal women. It was just a news story. Wait until the matter settles and then go at each other. :-* :-*
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no jack it's not the news story and to be honest if he did wrong thats on him , it's the fact that someone jumps on and says people that sell fish are scumbags and collect welfare , that is a direct insult to those of us that do legally sell fish , and that gets said a lot !i don't expect a apoligy because only a prejustice person would ever make such a statement but i sure will stand my ground for a legal activity ! the truth is most panfishfisherman do in fact sell or have sold fish , the money is usually used for bait and fishing stuff or gas which means it goes into the econmy! if it helps out someone laid off great ...and i remind people if you work for a job seeking union you can't take a non union job to help out! and keep your book! anyways selling and buying some panfish is legal period . i'm also sticking up for one of our sponcers here!
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hate to put it in the middle of the discussion but it looks like there are some expreienced folks on this thread...does anyone around Chatauqua buy fish? I'd love to sell a few perch/bluegill to help cover some of the gas for driving down there every weekend. send a pm if you'd like...
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no jack it's not the news story and to be honest if he did wrong thats on him , it's the fact that someone jumps on and says people that sell fish are scumbags and collect welfare , that is a direct insult to those of us that do legally sell fish , and that gets said a lot !i don't expect a apoligy because only a prejustice person would ever make such a statement but i sure will stand my ground for a legal activity ! the truth is most panfishfisherman do in fact sell or have sold fish , the money is usually used for bait and fishing stuff or gas which means it goes into the econmy! if it helps out someone laid off great ...and i remind people if you work for a job seeking union you can't take a non union job to help out! and keep your book! anyways selling and buying some panfish is legal period . i'm also sticking up for one of our sponcers here!
Im with ya there trap.
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i dont sell fish but i give a lot away so by me not consuming them myself i guess its the same. as long as there not being wasted i really dont see the problem. dont lump everyone the same. if you violate the law and loose your license thats on you. most people violate some type of laws at one time or other. go fishing and enjoy .
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These topics do always seem to light a fire. My bad for adding fuel to it once or twice.
For the record, I have no issues with legal sales of panfish and Lenny has always treated well when I've gone into his shop.
From the little I know of him, he seems like a decent guy.
Hopefully Gamma is right by saying they raided the place to get records of the few dirtbags that give the rest a black eye.
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These topics do always seem to light a fire. My bad for adding fuel to it once or twice.
For the record, I have no issues with legal sales of panfish and Lenny has always treated well when I've gone into his shop.
From the little I know of him, he seems like a decent guy.
Hopefully Gamma is right by saying they raided the place to get records of the few dirtbags that give the rest a black eye.
I agree.
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if it helps out someone laid off great ...and i remind people if you work for a job seeking union you can't take a non union job to help out! and keep your book!
Thats funny!!!
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it reminds me of the song if you mind your own buisness then you wont be minding mine...........cheap gossip. go fishing have fun.
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This is getting interesting..........DD ;D ;D ;D
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it reminds me of the song if you mind your own buisness then you wont be minding mine...........cheap gossip. go fishing have fun.
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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Any Popcorn? .........DD ;D ;D ;D
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Also, if you are laid off, pay a little more attention to Gold prospecting. It's a great way to supplement your income, and YES, there is gold in NY.
I don't have a problem with selling fish legally either.
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a friend of mine did that gold thing on the west coast and had a great time doing it, got to fish and pan
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Also, if you are laid off, pay a little more attention to Gold prospecting. It's a great way to supplement your income, and YES, there is gold in NY.
I don't have a problem with selling fish legally either.
I love that show !!!!!! GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD ...... I have my pan ...When are we going JT ?
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Also, if you are laid off, pay a little more attention to Gold prospecting. It's a great way to supplement your income, and YES, there is gold in NY.
I don't have a problem with selling fish legally either.
NO WAY"GOLD"..................pick me! pick me!..... DD ;D ;D ;D
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the only gold most will see will be around there girlfriends neck or some broths. teeth. both personel.....go fishing have fun and forget the popcorn.
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I love prospecting, I own a 3 claims in California. If you guys are serious, we may just have to get together. I like to go to VA. also. Great bunch of guys down there, and good gold too. As far as NY goes, it is here, but it's small, and access is tuff. I will be headed to Cal. in July to do some diggin
I also Have a Grandmother who own's a Diner on Rt.11 just north of Gouverneur. She used to buy fish from a local fisherman...all legal, and it was certainly supporting the economy. She makes great pies and donuts too.. ;D
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Also, if you are laid off, pay a little more attention to Gold prospecting. It's a great way to supplement your income, and YES, there is gold in NY.
I don't have a problem with selling fish legally either.
You can scrap copper and brass... Collect bottles and cans.... I personally would rather fish for panfish and sell them...Big money and all those Benny's not sure why you would need to supplement your income anyway.
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The gold prospecting's always been interesting to me. I hope it's not a "secret" thing like some fishing spots, but I'll let you guys know there's gold in Sandy Creek up above Pulaski. Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see for myself. There I was fishing for salmon, a guy opposite the river from me was panning. I kind of chuckled and thought ok yeah right, panning for gold in the middle of the salmon run with guys all around. I crossed the river and chatted and sure enough he had some gold in the pan.
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Oh snap, jona!
Better hope they don't find out your name.
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you mean to tell me that I broke my back mining for mudders all those years and I could have been finding gold in all of those secret fishing spots I had???? son of a mother f'er, dirtt rotten rat bastard. NOW YOU TELL ME
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I didnt say bugger, thanks alot slayer ;D
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jona that was me !!!! if a hole i wanna fish has a bunch of guys i pull that one and sure enought they see that fake gold and stop fishing ans start panning! opens the hole right up quick