MyFishFinder Forum
MFF US Northeast => New Hampshire => Topic started by: Steve H. on Apr 15, 2020, 12:51 PM
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I needed to replace a deep cycle battery on very short notice so I picked up a EverStart Maxx 29DC from WalMart. As a Group 29 battery it was the biggest they had and only $100. It came fully charged (I had the salesperson check with a voltmeter) and I've since but another full charge on it. The battery works fine in terms of power. However, the charge does not last as long as I would expect. This past weekend, trolling in the morning at approximately 1.8 mph in calm conditions, the charge only lasted 3 hours. I'm running a Minn Kota Terrova 55 lb (12 v) on a 15' Lund. Granted, it's a fairly heavy boat for its size with a 30hp Mercury tiller and a couple guys on board with gear.
Is it likely that I would get a longer use from a more expensive battery, such as an AGM of the same size? I've had AGMs in the past and never felt like I was getting substantially better performance for the extra money I spent. And they didn't last as long as I expected either (but that could have been my fault not charging them regularly).
Can anyone recommend a battery that would likely perform for longer than 3 hours under those conditions? Or should I be satisfied with what I experienced and just get a 2nd similar battery for backup?
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Actually, it seems this might be spot on. The battery has 122 amp hours, and I'm likely running the motor at 40 amps/hr.
I guess I need to find a battery with a higher amp hour capacity, correct?
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My experience with electric motors and trolling at the speed you mention and required is the battery / batteries do not last long. I had a 36 volt (three massive series 31, Duracell, 105 amp hour AGM batteries) Minn Kota Terova 101 lb thrust pushing a 24' pontoon boat. Trying to maintain 2 mph I too would only get about 3 hours of trolling time before all three batteries were exhausted. Its takes a lot of juice to keep those speeds up! If you could slow it down to 1 mph or less it would last a heck of a lot longer (I know you can't).
Amp hour rating on the battery is what determines how long it will last. The higher the amp hour rating the longer it will last. Honestly I don't think you are going to do much better or it would be negligible than what you have now. I don't think you would be happy...I would look for a small gas motor instead.
Good Luck!
Dan
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Amp hour rating on the battery is what determines how long it will last. The higher the amp hour rating the longer it will last. Honestly I don't think you are going to do much better or it would be negligible than what you have now.
Good Luck!
Dan
Thanks, Dan. Yeah, a quick search shows that batteries top out at 120-125 amp hrs anyway, so 3 hrs is about it per charge at that speed.
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When trolling above 1.1 mph I usually use my kicker motor, gas 6hp, and just tie it down so it goes straight and use the bow mount to control where the boat goes. Easier to steer from the front than the back especially in the wind. I have the auto pilot model bow mount and love being able to have the remote to steer while landing a fish instead of trying to steer the boat with the tiller motor. But another way might be put your batteries in series or parallel. Do not remember which is which but have the camper on 2 group 27 batteries where the positive is hooked to positive and negative to negative and this helps with running the heater in the camper overnight and not be out of juice in the morning to start the generator. If you have room and can do this then you should get a longer run time to be out on the lake. Good luck
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But another way might be put your batteries in series or parallel. Do not remember which is which but have the camper on 2 group 27 batteries where the positive is hooked to positive and negative to negative and this helps with running the heater in the camper overnight and not be out of juice in the morning to start the generator. If you have room and can do this then you should get a longer run time to be out on the lake. Good luck
Yeah, a friend of mine suggested doing this. Might have to give it a try. A kicker on my boat isn't an option, but might be able to slow the 30 hp down enough with a bucket or two. Thanks.
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The advantage of an agm is no maintenance. A 100ah battery is a 100ah battery at the end of the day.
Steve that trolling motor is spec'd to draw a max of 20 amps an hour at max thrust. I have the same unit with ipilot on one of my boats.
For that boat I run 2 giant group 34's 200ah rating in total. My calculation was 20 amps an hour/200 total amp hours. 10 hours of operation in total.
I use 2 cheap tractor supply deep cycles. I have trolled at 1.8-2 for over 8 miles with that setup.
The batts are wired parallel.
On my other boat I run a 36v 110lb thrust ipilot. 3 75ah agm's power that, wired in series to get 36v.
Remember the AH rating is not exact. You need to know how many amps you are drawing, and drawing amps creates heat and subsequently reduces draw...efficiencies between batter brands may differ and the most important component is the charger. A good charger that has conditioning routines to knock sulfate off the plates will help your batteries perform at their best.
Here's the small power plant in the back of one of my boats.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VJtLr58t/20200405-131626.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJtLr58t)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJYFWhgz/20200327-135221.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJYFWhgz)
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AGM's typically should be drawn down past 50% or it shortens their life.
Here is something from an article I read a week or so back when looking at batteries for my rig -
Flooded/Wet Cell Batteries
Possibly the most “traditional” type of battery, wet (or “flooded”) batteries most closely mimic the design of the original battery. These batteries contain a combination of liquid electrolyte. The liquid in these batteries must be carefully measured and maintained in order for the battery to perform properly.
Pros: Wet Cell batteries are typically the best choice for backup power applications, utility, and grid energy storage.
Cons: Most of the cons of the flooded battery stem from the fact that they contain free liquid that requires periodic inspection and maintenance. Flooded batteries can also be inadvertently damaged in forceful movement. Extreme climates can have a greater effect on the battery life due to the electrolyte solution inside the battery having the ability to evaporate or freeze.
While flooded batteries do require maintenance, if taken care of properly this battery type will last longer than many of their counterparts.
Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM)
An AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery contains a special glass mat separator that wicks the electrolyte solution between the battery plates. This material’s design enables the fiberglass to be saturated with electrolyte – and to store the electrolyte in a “dry” or suspended state rather than in free liquid form. As the battery works, electrolyte is transferred from the glass mat to battery plates as required. The mat contains enough electrolyte for the battery to deliver its full capacity and – should the battery case become damaged or the battery is tipped on its side – its electrolyte will not spill.
Pros: These batteries are referred to as maintenance free batteries, and do not require watering service. Since there is no free liquid and minimal gassing, AGM batteries can perform better than flooded batteries in applications where maintenance is difficult to perform.
Cons: Users should take care when charging this battery as over and under charging can affect their life and performance. AGM batteries perform most reliably when their use is limited to the discharge of no more than 50% of battery capacity.
AGM batteries can often be found in off-grid power systems including environmentally friendly renewable energy systems like wind and solar power. They are also great for electric vehicle service and uninterrupted power supply systems, as well as robotics and some ATVs and motorcycles.
Sam's Club has Duracell deep cycle 31's for $99/each.
The same unit AGM is $179/each
Same Ah for both.
I don't see the need in my case to spend another $80 per battery which works out to an additional $240 for three of them.
(I missed the sale 2 wks ago where the lead acid deep cycle 31's were only $79/each - I don't need them for a while, so I'll wait and see if they come back on sale again in a couple months or so)
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I got two used 6 volt interstate golf cart batteries from my cart guy two years ago. Hooked in series, they will run my 55 pound Terrova 6-8 hours depending on load and wind. Almost double time compared to the group 29 walmart batteries I used before. Best part is I got them for $20.00 each.
Check your local cart shop. Most have serviceable used batteries from change outs.
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Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. Some great suggestions and insight here.
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Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. Some great suggestions and insight here.
Good luck with your setup!
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I just went with three of the Group 31 flooded lead acid Interstates for my new Ulterra 36v setup. I trolled for 5 hours the the other day in 15mph winds and it only seemed to drop the Ipilot gauge one "click". If I get a 10-12 hour day I will be a happy camper and I think I should do better than that based on my calculations.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports/Boats/i-SMmZS2p/0/6ca4be42/XL/20200327_173841-XL.jpg)
For many years I used Never-starts from Wally World and they actually served me fairly well. Like said above, the charger is likely more important than the battery. The only time I ever started having troubles with my trolling motor batteries is when my charger was suspect. My only complaint was that the Neva-starts would get weak in less time than the Interstates. Like I'd get 4 years out of the Neva-starts and 5 out of the Interstates before they started noticeably losing capacity. The economy probably worked out similar between them.
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Thanks. Where did you get those Interstates?
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Thanks. Where did you get those Interstates?
Greens Marine in Hooksett.
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Thanks. Where did you get those Interstates?
i use interstates as well ..I get mine at senters in plaistow ..Milford marine has them as well..not sure where you are located but just do a google search for a dealer near you
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There is also an Interstate factory storefront in Nashua, or Merrimack, on 3A, just South of Campers Inn. I had to get one of my 3 batteries there because Greens only had 2. Oddly enough the factory store was 20 bucks more expensive. I bought them on the day the Gov. shut everything down. Greens said they were closing for the duration. So I panicked and went to Nashua to get that 3rd group 31 battery!
Course now I think stores are open mostly, haven't called Greens Marine, I spent way too much already this Spring. The Interstate Store is definitely open, just have to call and process for curbside pickup.
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Thanks Jethro.
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i use interstates as well ..I get mine at senters in plaistow ..Milford marine has them as well..not sure where you are located but just do a google search for a dealer near you
Thanks Jibbs. Plaistow is much closer to me than Hooksett or Milford. I'll check around for something even closer. Good to know.
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You guys like the flooded lead? I am not in favor of having to add distilled water to 4 batteries so I stuck to sealed on the bass boat. My trolling rig has 4 flooded lead. They probably need distilled water. Wouldn't mind that flooded lead price though.
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Aren't you all missing a completely new style of battery? I'm VERY new to the electronics game but isn't there a LifePO4 style lithium batteries on the market that can draw a much more consistent amount of power through the life of the battery, weigh less than half of the lead acid batteries and have a longer shelf life? They come at a very steep price but I recently ponied up the cash for one since I want my setup to be as portable as possible. Unfortunately in the situation we are in I can't get the thing until May.
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Aren't you all missing a completely new style of battery? I'm VERY new to the electronics game but isn't there a LifePO4 style lithium batteries on the market that can draw a much more consistent amount of power through the life of the battery, weigh less than half of the lead acid batteries and have a longer shelf life? They come at a very steep price but I recently ponied up the cash for one since I want my setup to be as portable as possible. Unfortunately in the situation we are in I can't get the thing until May.
My buddy got one for his yak. $800. Too steep for me.
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I have also used Interstate in the past but they are more than 2X the cost of the Delco units at Sam's Club. Sooo…………
As for AGM vs wet...……...I'll add the distilled water.
It's not difficult and only needs to be done 1-2X during the year depending on the battery's age.
Besides, I have 8 deep cycle batteries that are wet in Donna's golf cart that need servicing.
So I do them all at once.
I have read articles that say AGM are better than wet.
And others that say the absolute opposite.
So why pay $100 more for an AGM - times 3 because I run 36VDC
Doesn't make sense. For me anyway.
I investigated the lithium batteries.
I know guys that use them.
Super long life.
Significantly lighter.
And more Ah per volume of battery.
Still.....they are mega bucks.
If you do the math, they are almost a washout to lead acid in the long run.
But coughing up $2500 for 3 batteries is tough pill to swallow.
They will probably come down in price over time, or something else will come out on the market.
For now, for me, it will be wet lead acid units.
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My buddy got one for his yak. $800. Too steep for me.
For my purposes I could get away with the 54ah but yeah cost double the amount of the trolling motor. Weight was a big factor in my decision since it will be used in an inflatable raft or my kayak.
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For my purposes I could get away with the 54ah but yeah cost double the amount of the trolling motor. Weight was a big factor in my decision since it will be used in an inflatable raft or my kayak.
Yeah, my buddy's got the Old Town Predator MK, which uses an integrated Minn Kota. He fishes lots of kayak tourneys including ones in Texas and Wisconsin so he's hardcore enough to drop the coin. Me, not so much. I'll stick with a couple Wally World specials or maybe spring for an Interstate.
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Aren't you all missing a completely new style of battery? I'm VERY new to the electronics game but isn't there a LifePO4 style lithium batteries on the market that can draw a much more consistent amount of power through the life of the battery, weigh less than half of the lead acid batteries and have a longer shelf life? They come at a very steep price but I recently ponied up the cash for one since I want my setup to be as portable as possible. Unfortunately in the situation we are in I can't get the thing until May.
I also have 8 deep cycles too and while I could afford to replace them all with lithium, it would be a considerable cost...money better spent elsewhere....like the 1400 I just donated to tackle direct last night 8)
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You guys like the flooded lead? I am not in favor of having to add distilled water to 4 batteries so I stuck to sealed on the bass boat. My trolling rig has 4 flooded lead. They probably need distilled water. Wouldn't mind that flooded lead price though.
I also have 8 deep cycles too and while I could afford to replace them all with lithium, it would be a considerable cost...money better spent elsewhere....like the 1400 I just donated to tackle direct last night 8)
Yeah the short term cost benefit is good, but I bet if you do the math on lithium it may win that battle over time. Especially when you consider the durability and weight benefits of lithium. I do sometimes pound the ever loving daylights on my boat, especially on the salt, and the batteries are what makes me cringe the most. Lithiums are more or less bomb proof. But if you take care of lead acids and make sure they are tied down good they are pretty stout.
Do they make great on board chargers for lithium batteries? I'm sure they must.
I made a great 60 amp hr. LIfepo4 battery ammo box for my ice shanty last season, it is awesome but that is obviously a huge bonus for the weight factor. But for some reason I didn't consider it for my trolling motor install?
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Lithium is initially pricy, but in the end it's the way to go. Golf cart guys are building/ buying lithium packs that weigh the same as one FLA battery, that have the capacity of 6 FLA batts. 70 pounds that outpower over 400. Plus the life span is 3-5 times flooded batteries.
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Yeah the short term cost benefit is good, but I bet if you do the math on lithium it may win that battle over time. Especially when you consider the durability and weight benefits of lithium. I do sometimes pound the ever loving daylights on my boat, especially on the salt, and the batteries are what makes me cringe the most. Lithiums are more or less bomb proof. But if you take care of lead acids and make sure they are tied down good they are pretty stout.
Do they make great on board chargers for lithium batteries? I'm sure they must.
I made a great 60 amp hr. LIfepo4 battery ammo box for my ice shanty last season, it is awesome but that is obviously a huge bonus for the weight factor. But for some reason I didn't consider it for my trolling motor install?
They do, the minkota I just added can handle lithium apparently. I think the only thing Id like is the weight savings, but is it worth it, probably not.
I did have fun today in the wind with spot lock. 36v's and 110lbs of thrust moves.
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I did have fun today in the wind with spot lock. 36v's and 110lbs of thrust moves.
Me as well! What a game changer it is not to have to worry so much about boat control! I was able to change twice as many presentations today while trolling all while the autopilot kept the boat under perfect control. And yes, that 112lbs is some kinda of power!
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Yup autopilot and cruise control helped me out...kind of...was casting for pike and got the skunk.
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Pepe' Le Pew was on board my boat yesterday as well. All the back to the trailer.
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Same here. Two Sundays in a row. :o Moving on to greener pastures next weekend, if the ramps aren't closed for opening day.
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Ya Ive been on a streak. Love the new boat but back to the river for me.
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probably a dumb question, but I'd like to hook my fish finders up separately from my starter motor and trolling motor. During the ice season I run my Helix 7 on the Dakota Lithium 12v 10ah battery. Could I run my Humminbird Piranha and Helix 7 off that same battery? or do the open water ducers draw more power than the ice?
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probably a dumb question, but I'd like to hook my fish finders up separately from my starter motor and trolling motor. During the ice season I run my Helix 7 on the Dakota Lithium 12v 10ah battery. Could I run my Humminbird Piranha and Helix 7 off that same battery? or do the open water ducers draw more power than the ice?
If your outboard has an alternator your best best is to run the electronics off the cranking battery.
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What make, model and year is your boat and motor.
Be sure to use in-line fuses ( 1 per power lead)
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What make, model and year is your boat and motor.
Be sure to use in-line fuses ( 1 per power lead)
I have a 1995 Mercury Outboard, 60hp, fuel injected. I believe it has an alternator as my voltage goes up when my outboard is on. I'll have to add some fuses.
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i use interstates as well ..I get mine at senters in plaistow
Picked one up today at Senters, Group 31. Not a lot of dealers carry the marine batteries. But they hooked me up and for a fair price. Not that much more than a WalMart battery.
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I have a 1995 Mercury Outboard, 60hp, fuel injected. I believe it has an alternator as my voltage goes up when my outboard is on. I'll have to add some fuses.
Ya that said I'd run your electronics off the cranking battery!
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Ya that said I'd run your electronics off the cranking battery!
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