RANT: where do the bases go?

[Jethro]

Jethro,     Why is so important that you can see the rigger ball?    I run flashers directly off my ball and would rather have it out of the transducer cone so the I can see fish.   The rigger should register your approximate depth.    

I guess I've never used anything but the cheepo Cannon riggers with that absolute garbage depth gauge on the pully wheel. It is so unreliable that I don't bother setting it to zero any more. So with better riggers and a better line counter I wouldn't care as much. But with the mini-troll, the only way to know my depth is with the sonar.

I can't really get a trolling bar because my motor is a manual trim/tilt. I need to be able to get back there and reach it. But yes, I plan on doing a lot of coldwater fishing from now on. It seems to be what I like to do.

[Dispy]

I guess I've never used anything but the cheepo Cannon riggers with that absolute garbage depth gauge on the pully wheel. It is so unreliable that I don't bother setting it to zero any more. So with better riggers and a better line counter I wouldn't care as much. But with the mini-troll, the only way to know my depth is with the sonar.

I can't really get a trolling bar because my motor is a manual trim/tilt. I need to be able to get back there and reach it. But yes, I plan on doing a lot of coldwater fishing from now on. It seems to be what I like to do.

"one turn of the Rigger wheel equals one foot of depth".......Never-mind seeing on sonar, that usually never happens unless you have your electronics dialed in properly. We have caught many a mini-troll fish without seeing the ball in the electronics screen...but it is nice to have that luxury.

As for Dick Baker, not sure where Flashers and Dodgers work for you within our lovely State, but God-Bless you for having such great fish catching experiences while using them..Love to learn your secret approach in using them, perhaps a great Hawkeye write story might aid us that are "not in the know?" Thanks in advance.

[Jethro]

"one turn of the Rigger wheel equals one foot of depth".......Nevermind seeing on sonar, that usually never happens unless your have your electronics dialed in properly.

Oh man, my new Helix 5 I can see the little 4lb ball down to about 45 feet even trolling as fast as 2.2. I'm thinking I'll see 8lb balls down as far as they go.

Counting the turns works if you have a sharp memory. Unfortunately I do not. Plus it's hard when you see the ball most of the time and then not others. I just really like seeing the ball on the finder.

I have a bunch of flashers but I've only used them inline and with little success. Dick, do you run a flasher right off the ball and then use a stacker release? Or some other way I can't even think of?

[Dispy]

Oh man, my new Helix 5 I can see the little 4lb ball down to about 45 feet even trolling as fast as 2.2. I'm thinking I'll see 8lb balls down as far as they go.

Counting the turns works if you have a sharp memory. Unfortunately I do not. Plus it's hard when you see the ball most of the time and then not others. I just really like seeing the ball on the finder.

Understood! I suppose that may be the difference in the beauty of the sport..Some Old-timers I fish with actually record on paper how many cranks down while others just "roll with it." If that does not exclude them from Alzheimer's, I don't know what does...lol

[fishlessman]

i used to want to see that ball on the screen but since upgrading the finder its been a curse. at times i see 4 balls, 4 releases, and when out of state, 4 sliders. it clutters things up bad on the screen. it does give better warning watching the ball ram into a shoal though the counters are close enough for me, they always read deeper than on the screen so they are placing the bait above the salmon where you want them

[dickbaker]

  Jethro and Dispy,    I've always connected my flashers directly to the rigger ball.  I use the biggest Dave Davis spinners I can find ( just what I've always had).   The release is set two feet above the ball.  That makes it easy to leave the ball in the water while resetting the release.
I've often set the bait as little  as 15 feet behind the ball, especially when fishing below 16 ft.   I never try to guess what goes on in a fish's little brain but I think the flashers attract the salmon and they drop back and find what looks like a tasty meal?   I am sure that the flashers attract salmon from far below the trolling depth.   But, remember that I still use Roemer releases because I have a huge collection of the original Roemer release. 
Jethro I would never go back to inline spinners with downriggers.   I do sometimes try some of my old Maine spinners on flat lines. 
I would do some serious measurements concerning your access to the manual trim and the possible location of a trolling board?

Dick

[fishlessman]

nothing wrong with roemers, i bought a bunch years ago and havent upgraded them since i start the season above and behind the last blade about 4 feet, but when the water warms up i drop back 15 to 20 behind the last blade. why that works for me i dont know. i also do most of my fishing on sebago and where an orange ball works on winni, chartreuse yellow works better on sebago

[Seahunt]

I guess I've never used anything but the cheepo Cannon riggers with that absolute garbage depth gauge on the pully wheel. It is so unreliable that I don't bother setting it to zero any more. So with better riggers and a better line counter I wouldn't care as much. But with the mini-troll, the only way to know my depth is with the sonar.

I wouldn't be too quick to disparage the "depth gauges".
There are a few factors involved much the same as line counter reels.

Given that you have the prescribed amount and diameter of cable on the spool, the depth counter is measuring amount of cable out. That would give you the depth only if it was STRAIGHT down (90 degrees from the end of the pulley).
A 4# ball (not recommended) will have a lot of blow back if you're going faster then a crawl and fishing at the depths you even need this early for salmon. That put's your lure much higher then the counter says it is. Add "flashers" (more drag, resistance) the blow back will increase given the same size ball.

As with line counter reels, rigger counters are most effective for "duplication".
That being said, if you have enough ball weight to keep your rigger cable straight up and down and it has the original amount of cable your counters should be fine.    

[Mac Attack]

I wouldn't be too quick to disparage the "depth gauges".

As with line counter reels, rigger counters are most effective for "duplication".

Exactly.
If you're catching fish at 57' indicated at 3.4mph
Why would you take a chance on only lowering the ball down to 54' after catching a fish and re-rigging.

[Dispy]

Jethro and Dispy,    I've always connected my flashers directly to the rigger ball.  I use the biggest Dave Davis spinners I can find ( just what I've always had).   The release is set two feet above the ball.  That makes it easy to leave the ball in the water while resetting the release.
I've often set the bait as little  as 15 feet behind the ball, especially when fishing below 16 ft.   I never try to guess what goes on in a fish's little brain but I think the flashers attract the salmon and they drop back and find what looks like a tasty meal?   I am sure that the flashers attract salmon from far below the trolling depth.   But, remember that I still use Roemer releases because I have a huge collection of the original Roemer release.  
Jethro I would never go back to inline spinners with downriggers.   I do sometimes try some of my old Maine spinners on flat lines.  
I would do some serious measurements concerning your access to the manual trim and the possible location of a trolling board?

Dick

Apparently I mis-understood your use of flashers......not a firm believer in running them off the balls. I thought you were referring to Dipsy divers/dodgers/flashers..not ball ornaments. My bad

[Mac Attack]

Apparently I mis-understood your use of flashers......not a firm believer in running them off the balls.

We ran them this year off the ball for early season browns and salmon in Lake Ontario.
The rigger with the flasher clearly out-produced the other 3:1, maybe 4:1.
I'm a believer and we will be running them off the balls for eyes in Lake Erie.


Mac

[Dispy]

We ran them this year off the ball for early season browns and salmon in Lake Ontario.
The rigger with the flasher clearly out-produced the other 3:1, maybe 4:1.
I'm a believer and we will be running them off the balls for eyes in Lake Erie.


Mac

I fish Lake O and Dodgers and Flashers work well with Dipsy divers. Most NH fisherman do not use them here on our big lakes. That is why I responded to Mr. Baker's post, as I stated I mis-understood his usage of them. I do use them, as in on each rod, in our smaller lake that I reside upon, they work, just not the preferred method up in NH. As for blinging out my balls, I find it really makes no difference up here

[Mac Attack]

Dodgers and Flashers work well 

I have used tons of these over the years.
With flies, squids, spoons and plugs.
I'm talking about a flasher on its own off the ball.

But thanks.
Mac

[Jethro]

I wouldn't be too quick to disparage the "depth gauges".
There are a few factors involved much the same as line counter reels.    

It's not that I want to disparage them, it's that they do not function. I'm talking about this kind of depth gauge on my "mini-troll":


These things are functionally inaccurate and often do not move one single click even when lowering the ball from 0 to 60 feet. That's why I can't count on them. Sometimes they work ok, but often they do not. You really have to count the turns of the handle, but when I start the season fishing generally no deeper than 30 feet, I get used to using the sonar screen. Then in July when I want to fish 60-70 feet I'm out of luck because now I am used to seeing it all on the screen.

[dickbaker]

  Jethro?  Another reason that you should consider a downrigger upgrade.   You should be able to utilize the riggers depth counter. 
Dick