FishUSA.com Fishing Tackle The Fishing Tackle Superstore

Author Topic: all winter w/no minnows so gona try a tank in the basement this summer  (Read 3030 times)

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
tks for the input Mac and Sharp.

This last summer the tank in my basement stayed on average 66°. So I did some test on dropping the temp using ice and here's the results.
I ran 3 identical test on 1/2 gallon of water in a plastic pitcher and all ended the same.

1/2 gallon of 66° water dropped to 55° with exactly 4oz ice added
I added 2oz more of ice and the temp dropped to 50°
Did this test 3 times with same results.

This test means it would take 1/2lb(8oz) ice to drop 1 gallon at 66° to 55° and 3/4lb(12oz) ice to drop 1 gallon at 66° to 50°.
Applying that to 40gal of water I get this.
20lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 55°
30lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 50°

 No idea how high the temp would go up after 24hrs so on the next day it may or may not be back to 66°.

My ice maker makes about 10lb/24hrs and I'm not gona buy ice so in reality the ice cool down method will probably not be much of a option.
Since I can't make enough ice I'll either have to drop the water down to 20gal or only be able to drop 40 gallons down 5° from 66°to 61°
10lb ice drops 20gal at 66° to 55°
10lb ice drops 40gal at 66° to 61°

10lb of ice is 1.25 gallons so if I went to a 20gal tank I would be adding 1.25 gallons of chlorinated water.  That added water would be de-chlorinated by the chlorine remover already in the tank.
I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124


Yup, I used a chlorine and chloramine removal chemical.
It actually neutralized it.

I'm a little confused about what you said in your last 2 post. This one you say adding ice worked did not kill your minnows and in the one before you said "When I had my tank in the garage I tried ice. It didn't work. Always killed fish."

My water has just chlorine in it, I called the water treatment plant and they say they do not use chloramine
I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

SHaRPS

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,340
  • Honor Respect Loyalty
I think you are going to spend more money on ice than needed. Just a thought, you can run copper piping in your tank and blast cold water through it to chill the whole tank in seconds. Same concept when I make my own beer, rapid cool down.
Wicked Wec

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Don't know how many gallons of beer you cool down. BUt I don't think 10-15ft of copper tube would cool down 40gal of water in seconds. To do that I would probably have to fill the tank up with copper tubing maybe 50-75ft and that would cost some big cash.

I don't have to buy ice I have a ice maker but makes only about 10lb/24hrs.

I have to ask how would I keep the water running thru coiled copper tubing ice cold. I can't use my house water its only 50° and my water bill would be outrageous.

I watched a couple videos on youtube on a DIY air condition using a fan with coiled copper tubing attached to front of the fan. They had a cooler with ice and water, they circulated  the ice water thru the copper tube. This setup cost was $35-$40. $20 for 15' 1/4" Copper tubing, pump $10, vinyl tubing and clamps $5+.

I can buy allot of minnows for $35-$40 so I'm not sure this is the way for me to go plus I would probably be using the same amount of ice as if I was dumping the ice in the tank everyday. This would be a good way to go if it could be done cheaply.

With the water circulating thru the ice water I can see the ice melting fast, running water will eat thru ice fast and when its all melted the water would start to warm up to the temp of the minnow tank water.


I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Bottom line.

The whole reason for this thread was I wanted a tank system to keep minnows in during the winter for ice fishing. The reason I wanted this is our local bait shop stops having minnows in the winter, late Oct early Nov they're out. And there's not another bait shop around I know of to get them in the winter.

 I was planning on buying allot of minnows right before he ran out and keep them all winter. Well I did that, I bought 150 of them but since the weather was still warm I lost almost all of them before it turned cold enough to keep the tank water in the low 50's. THis is why I'm now trying to figure a "CHEAP" way to keep the water in mid/low 50's during warm weather. If my basement would stay colder it would help, it stays 65-70 until winter gets here.
I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

Mac Attack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,312
I'm a little confused about what you said in your last 2 post. This one you say adding ice worked did not kill your minnows and in the one before you said "When I had my tank in the garage I tried ice. It didn't work. Always killed fish."

My water has just chlorine in it, I called the water treatment plant and they say they do not use chloramine

Sorry - work has been rough and I've been tied up.

The ice idea does actually work but it involved too much hassle.
Too much ice too fast and you shock them.
Ice made straight from tap water has chlorine.
Let me explain.
I started making the ice with treated water.
And only added the ice in small amounts, but had to do it almost constantly.
It worked, but was a royal PITA.
So I stopped.

If I used ice from my freezer's ice maker it had chlorine in it.
Also, if I tossed it into the tank in large quantities...………..

For your copper idea.
Here's something I almost tired
Take the copper tubing and attach it to an in-tank power head (pump).
Run it out of the tank and into a cooler with a bit of the copper tubing coiled inside the cooler.
Then route the tubing out of the cooler and back into the tank.
Keep ice in the cooler to chill the coils.
Run a hose from the drain of the cooler to a floor drain in your basement to accept the ice water as it melts.
Now you can flow the tank water though the tubing and chill it, and it stays isolated from the ice with the chlorine in it.
I have a keg beer tap my FIL gave to me years ago that runs thru coils inside a cooler like this and it works great for chilling the beer prior to coming out of the tap.

Here's a link to a small power head that would work.
You need low flow but enough "head" capacity to push the water up and out of your tank and then thru the coils and back into the tank.
You might want the cooler up off the floor over to the side of the tank so gravity helps it to discharge.
(The pump doesn't need to pump up out of your tank and then up a second time out of the cooler and back to your tank)

https://www.amazon.com/Tiger-Pumps-Submersible-Powerheads-Hydroponics/dp/B01NBKNG4K/ref=sr_1_14?crid=Z8OUMEJYXBA8&keywords=aquarium+powerhead+water+pump&qid=1578755784&sprefix=aquarium+po%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-14

Mac Attack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,312

Here's a cartoon I created for you showing you what I mean.





Mac Attack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,312
Maybe you would be better letting the melted ice water stay in the cooler and simply pull the cooler plug periodically and into a pail that you dump down a sink.
(Instead of the hose to the floor drain idea)
This way the ice water in the cooler completely surrounds 100% of the copper coils giving you far better cooling effect and heat transfer.

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
I'll have to say, tks SHarps for bringing up this idea and tks Mac for extra input on the setup.

Putting the coil in the ice and circulating tank water thru a pipe in the ice i'm guessing should not eat up the ice as fast.

I am using a Kedsum 550GPM for my filter system and have a 2nd for backup I could use. The smallest tube adapter is 1/2" I'll have to call Kedsum and ask if reducing it down to 1/4 would hurt the pump. A slower pump would probably be better since the slower the water flows thru the pipe the more the water would cool. Ebay has a AQUANEAT 90GPM for $5 or a 160 or 120(Jalale) either for $8.  I'm thinking 1/4 copper tubing would be better plus about half the cost of 1/2". 10-15 foot I would think be enough in the cooler, the coil I"ll attach to vinyl tubing to run to the tank.

I've got all winter to think about it since we have no ice yet that's allot of thinking time.
I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

SHaRPS

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,340
  • Honor Respect Loyalty
No problem. Mac, you are spot on with what I meant except what I meant is ; take the pump in your drawing and put it into the cooler with ice slurry, the copper tubing into the tank. This way you are rotating the cold water from and into the cooler and never actually using water from your water supply. That tank will cool down asap and never have to worry about chlorine.
Wicked Wec

Mac Attack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,312
But if you do it my way, you can also put a sponge filter on the inlet of the pump.

Your turn.

 8)

charlys1954

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Sharps method, coil in the tank, the cooler ice probably would melt faster since water is circulating in the ice. But the water moving thru the tubing in tank would be ice cold. Essentially running ice water thru a coil that's in the tank.

With Mac's method coil in the cooler and circulating tank water in the tubing thru the ice water, the ice would last longer since water is not moving thru the ice. Essentially running tank water thru a coil that's in the ice water.

When the time comes I'll try both ways. Found some cheap copper tubing at Rural King, $5 for 10ft 1/4". If that's not enough I'll just buy another and hook them together for 20ft.
I'm a "Born in Ind" Redneck and proud of it

Mac Attack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,312
Bringing your tank down to a low temp will chew up ice because of the larger delta T.  Straight heat transfer facts.  I design furnaces and ovens for a living.  In conjunction, I also design cooling systems for them.

Now, once your tank water is cooled down, it will take less heat transfer to keep it there.  So you will use less ice.

Another thing you might want to consider is insulating your tank to keep it cool.
BTW, ping pong balls are great insulation for the top of the water and will still allow for chlorine to off gas, your return water to penetrate, and O2 transfer to keep your minnows breathing.

hounds

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 471
  • If it were easy !!! Everyone would do it!
Use milk jugs from the freezer rotate those once or twice a day. save money on ice.  might be able to put them in the water with the minnows, and keep the chlorine out of the water.

 



Iceshanty | MyFishFinder | MyHuntingForum
Contact | Disclaimer | Sponsor
© 2004- MyFishFinder.com
All Rights Reserved.