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Author Topic: Hybrid crappies...  (Read 582 times)

taxid

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Hybrid crappies...
« on: Oct 19, 2019, 01:38 PM »
I thought the following might be of interest to crappie anglers:

As many of you know hybridization of black and white crappies is not unusual in waters where they both exist. And hybrid vigor may be a factor in why most of the giant crappies I get in as a taxidermist are natural hybrids. (17 inches or larger). Anyway to this end, since I also produce and sell trophy size fish for the taxidermy and replica market, one of my goals is to produce trophy size crappies, which means I will concentrate on hybrid crappies. They also allegedly grow much faster than whites or blacks the first few years.

Another advantage to the hybrids is they allegedly don't over-reproduce out of control in ponds like this whites and blacks as long as sufficient bass are present. Apparently hybrids aren't as prolific as their parent species which can be a problem in ponds. And the offspring are "inferior" what ever that means, and easily captured by the bass.

So a friend that manages ponds and sells fish to his customers brought me back 500 hybrids crappies from a hatchery in Arkansas know as Malone and Sons last fall.  I wanted to feed train them on pellets as that is the secret to growing large and fast growing fish for me. The fish were initially 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 inches and were not feed trained. In fact the hatchery has said they have no luck doing so. I put them in one of my basement tanks and commenced to attempt to feed train them. In the end I ended up with about 200 that were obviously feeding on the pellets as they grew to an average of 5 to 7 inches. The rest of the fish either died or became emaciated and were culled out. This is what happens in feed training. Some fish refuse artificial feed.

Fast forward to yesterday with the pond water clearing up I saw several hanging out above one the fish pens I sunk as structure when they are not in use. Then saw another group hanging out above a much deeper pen resting on the bottom. Grabbed the rod and real and put on a small jig and immediately caught the one in the picture between 8 and 9 inches.

So this fish is 1 1/2 years old and between 8 to 9 inches. A white or black crappie in our area of northern Indiana would probably take at least 3 years to get that big and probably more like 4 to 6 years. (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

No idea how many exist in the pond as they were eating size for the bass that were present in the pond when I planted them. And I have no idea if they have continued to feed on the pellets, as I have not actually seem them feeding with the bass, bluegill and yellow perch at feeding time. However that doesn't mean anything as it's one big feeding frenzy and hard to pick out individual fish.



BTW you can't see it well in the picture but the black crappie used to cross with a white crappie was what is know as a black nose black crappie. There's a dark stripe from the top of the head to the spiny dorsal fin on top. This particular black crappie is use so that one can distinguish hybrids from normal crappies in waters where they are planted.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #1 on: Oct 20, 2019, 06:45 AM »
Largemouth are coming along too. This fish is 2 years 4 months old. Wild counterpart would be at least 6 years old.



The downside to this is it's ruined me for fishing public lakes for the most part other than just getting out on a larger body of water.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

fishogger

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #2 on: Oct 20, 2019, 06:59 AM »
interesting on the age.  ever try to count the rings on a scale or that ear bone thingy? 

did they feed in frenzy when in tank?  the tank crappie I had got fed strips of other fish.  they just kinda eased up and sucked it in though.  would take it from my fingers after a while. 
some fishermen tell lies,  this one doesnt need to

Teacherpreacher

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #3 on: Oct 20, 2019, 07:28 AM »
Interesting stuff! Facinating how much you can learn through observation and trial and error!
Teach

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #4 on: Oct 20, 2019, 08:57 AM »
interesting on the age.  ever try to count the rings on a scale or that ear bone thingy? 

did they feed in frenzy when in tank?  the tank crappie I had got fed strips of other fish.  they just kinda eased up and sucked it in though.  would take it from my fingers after a while.

I did have my "unofficial state record" perch aged by the otolith bone, but there really isn't any need as long as I know how old they are when I plant them and keep track of how long they are in the pond. According to one source otolith bones are more accurate than scales. Allegedly there is a judgment call with scales to some extent.

Some of the crappies were aggressive in the tank and some were not. The ones that refused to feed on the artificial feed (started out with freeze dried krill) either perished or I culled them out as it was obvious they were slowly starving.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2019, 08:59 AM »
Interesting stuff! Facinating how much you can learn through observation and trial and error!
Teach

I've learned a heck of a lot about fish I can use fishing for them I didn't know previously.  One thing I have learned is they can learn to avoid baits they have been previously caught on. And in ponds where there is access to a smaller finite number of bass vs. a much larger body of water that can happen very quickly. Everybody thinks fishing a private pond can be like fishing in a barrel. Not if the fish are subject to a fair amount of fishing pressure and released! Back when I raised smallmouth bass it got to the point I had to use live bait to catch them.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

fishogger

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #6 on: Oct 21, 2019, 02:15 PM »
I meant have you ever aged any big fish you got in to mount.  I have 2 scales laying here from a 13" white crappie.  I cant see good enough with the glasses I have.  need a microscope or a jewelers loop or something. lol
some fishermen tell lies,  this one doesnt need to

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #7 on: Oct 21, 2019, 09:38 PM »
No I have not aged fish using scales. Did some of it in fisheries class and OJT. IIRR we made an impression in plastic and looked at the rings under a light.

I would like to offer fish aging via the otolith bone to my customers. Trouble is when I remove all the cartilage inside the head I can never find it! You also have to actually crack the bone to see the rings. I've have to get a microscope to see the rings. Will do it someday. Not a priority right now.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #8 on: Oct 21, 2019, 09:48 PM »
BTW just got this from a biologist Tyler Delauder of Distrist 3  to compare my crappie growth rates to the average for whites and blacks in our area of northern Indiana. Thanks Tyler!

Tyler Delauder
Fisheries Biologist D3
1353 South Governors Drive
Columbia City, IN 46725
(260)244-6805  Phone
(260) 244-7247  Fax
tdelauder@dnr.in.gov
D3fish@dnr.in.gov


 
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

fishogger

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #9 on: Oct 22, 2019, 06:06 AM »
tried to see the ring with lite and mag glasses but they weren't strong enough.  I thought I seen 7-9 rings but need better glass.  so it falls in that same range.  when I was sampling with the DNR we took scales and measurements of a certain percentage of the fish.  they must put some stock into aging that way.
some fishermen tell lies,  this one doesnt need to

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #10 on: Oct 22, 2019, 09:36 AM »
tried to see the ring with lite and mag glasses but they weren't strong enough.  I thought I seen 7-9 rings but need better glass.  so it falls in that same range.  when I was sampling with the DNR we took scales and measurements of a certain percentage of the fish.  they must put some stock into aging that way.

You worked with the INDNR? I did not know that. When, where?

Yeah they use scales although some say the otolith bones are more accurate. But of course not practical if you want to release the fish.

When I cut the back bone in NP and Musky I see distinct rings that seem to correspond to the probable ages of the fish. I asked a prof friend if he thought there might be something to it and he had doubts about it though.
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

icejohn

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #11 on: Oct 22, 2019, 03:21 PM »
Some great and interesting info here...thanks for sharing. We mostly have black crappie here although I have caught whites in the seneca/erie canal system.
take a kid hunting and fishing, it's a lot better than leaving them on the streets!!

fishogger

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #12 on: Oct 23, 2019, 03:23 AM »
never "worked" for the DNR.  I just helped do some sampling "volunteer" work.  I couldn't believe they made those workers be at work the next day after sampling till 3am!  at least I didn't have to.  also it could be done way more efficient than it is. also safer! lol
some fishermen tell lies,  this one doesnt need to

taxid

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #13 on: Oct 23, 2019, 03:40 AM »
never "worked" for the DNR.  I just helped do some sampling "volunteer" work.  I couldn't believe they made those workers be at work the next day after sampling till 3am!  at least I didn't have to.  also it could be done way more efficient than it is. also safer! lol

I see. Where where you at and exactly what were you doing?

I was biologist aid one summer in central Indiana. We surveyed a lot of reservoirs and stayed at seedy motels. The long hours and cut up hands from pulling channel catfish tangled in gill nets took the fun out of it.   
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

fishogger

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Re: Hybrid crappies...
« Reply #14 on: Oct 23, 2019, 04:09 AM »
shocking sally missy
some fishermen tell lies,  this one doesnt need to

 



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