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This summer I have missed a great deal of fish on lake ontario due to not detecting the bite. I have improved slowly but am still missing a lot of strikes. I try and keep my line as tight as possible, and keep my left hand loosely on my line to improve my detection. I use 6lb mono and usually use a small jig weighted with the smallest sinker I can use depending on wind conditions on the bottom with the jig up top on a leader.
Do any of you seasoned perch (or panfish in general) anglers have any suggestions for a young angler? I fish almost exclusively for perch because I am a meat fisherman and to me nothing in the world tastes better. Specifically, any tips that will help me detect the bite more efficiently would be much appreciated.
Also I am wondering about in-line spinners for perch, any recomendations?
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This summer I have missed a great deal of fish on lake ontario due to not detecting the bite. I have improved slowly but am still missing a lot of strikes. I try and keep my line as tight as possible, and keep my left hand loosely on my line to improve my detection. I use 6lb mono and usually use a small jig weighted with the smallest sinker I can use depending on wind conditions on the bottom with the jig up top on a leader.
Do any of you seasoned perch (or panfish in general) anglers have any suggestions for a young angler? I fish almost exclusively for perch because I am a meat fisherman and to me nothing in the world tastes better. Specifically, any tips that will help me detect the bite more efficiently would be much appreciated.
Also I am wondering about in-line spinners for perch, any recomendations?
First thing would be to use lighter line. 2 to 4 lb test is plenty for any perch fishing !
If you've never used Fireline before, that would be the biggest and best change you could make. 2 lb Fireline has a very high breaking point. Usually around 5 to 6 lbs.
Depending on where you're fishing, a well balanced slip bobber rig will also help detect light strikes. If fishing shallow, a fixed float is the way to go but make sure it's balanced to the weight on the bait, sinker or lure you're using. Too many times I see people with floats that are much too big for the rig they have tied on below it. You can test it out at home in a bucket of water to get the ultimate rig. As little resistance as possible to pull the float under !.
If you're not fishing with floats, Fireline will be your best bet to increase your feel. Berkely also has a new line on the market called Nano Fil ! It's really an incredible line that is even more sensitive than Fireline but with a smaller diameter ! It makes casting a breeze with smaller jigs too ! It comes in all sizes from 1 lb up !
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Gamma,
Are you fishing that nanofil tied straight to a jig/spinner or off a leader. I am doing a fair amount of perch/crappie fishing but am also stream fishing for trout in clear water that can be pretty finicky. Although I am having a pretty good summer, I have also missed alot of trout that follow then trail off using clear mono. How clear is that nano? I saw some ads for it and it looks pretty good. I don't mind dropping the $20 if it is worth it. Thanks - Eric
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Gator - Nanofil has only been out a few weeks. Not many of us have gotten to use it much. The people I know that got to field test it rave about it. I have had it out a few trips and I am completely impressed with it. Been lovin fireline since it first came out and Nanofil tops it. Smooth, thin, and strong...
As for a leader? It is not as clear as mono or florcarbon but most of the time tying direct is fine. In clear water I fish it like I did fireline or any other braid, and thats tied to a small #12 or 14 swivel then a 18 to 24inch piece of florcarbon. Not sure how much of a diff it makes to the fish but it sure helps with confidence. And confidence is a huge part of the success equation...
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Gator - Nanofil has only been out a few weeks. Not many of us have gotten to use it much. The people I know that got to field test it rave about it. I have had it out a few trips and I am completely impressed with it. Been lovin fireline since it first came out and Nanofil tops it. Smooth, thin, and strong...
As for a leader? It is not as clear as mono or florcarbon but most of the time tying direct is fine. In clear water I fish it like I did fireline or any other braid, and thats tied to a small #12 or 14 swivel then a 18 to 24inch piece of florcarbon. Not sure how much of a diff it makes to the fish but it sure helps with confidence. And confidence is a huge part of the success equation...
Nice response ! ;)
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Cloud / Gamma,
Thanks guys - I am always looking for something to give me more distance on my cast - sometimes a few feet make the difference between a hit or not - esp with light lures. Also, I fish mainly spinners for trout and line memory and twist are a constant issue. I am going to give the nano a shot and throw on a Drennan fluoro leader and a micro swivel in clear water. Some of those knots Berkley is suggesting look interesting also. I appreciate the advice :) - Eric
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Cloud / Gamma,
Thanks guys - I am always looking for something to give me more distance on my cast - sometimes a few feet make the difference between a hit or not - esp with light lures. Also, I fish mainly spinners for trout and line memory and twist are a constant issue. I am going to give the nano a shot and throw on a Drennan fluoro leader and a micro swivel in clear water. Some of those knots Berkley is suggesting look interesting also. I appreciate the advice :) - Eric
You'll be amazed at how much more distance you'll get with Nano-Fil or Fireline. Especially with smaller baits/lures.
One thing to remember though is that you need to fill your spools up with backing before you attatch the Nano-Fil. Also, you'll only need 30 to 40 yards of the new line on your reels (less if you're using short rods as your casting distance is cut down a bit with the 5 to 6 ft rods.
As far as the knots that Berkely shows, they're good but the Palomar knot is the strongest knot and works well with all of the super lines . Easy to tie also !
You're going to love the new line ;)
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One thing I have done which increased my pan-fish hookup from the boat is to use my ice fishing rig. I use to use a 6 foot UL rod, but with the little 26" rod I am hooking up more with a quick snap of the wrist. I run 4lb mono, and just keep a finger on the line.
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This summer I have missed a great deal of fish on lake ontario due to not detecting the bite. I have improved slowly but am still missing a lot of strikes. I try and keep my line as tight as possible, and keep my left hand loosely on my line to improve my detection. I use 6lb mono and usually use a small jig weighted with the smallest sinker I can use depending on wind conditions on the bottom with the jig up top on a leader.
Do any of you seasoned perch (or panfish in general) anglers have any suggestions for a young angler? I fish almost exclusively for perch because I am a meat fisherman and to me nothing in the world tastes better. Specifically, any tips that will help me detect the bite more efficiently would be much appreciated.
Also I am wondering about in-line spinners for perch, any recomendations?
I agree with Gamma on line size. I like 4# test. I fish 2 #4 Aberdeen hooks (or ice jigs) with bait on dropper loops tied about 6 to 18 inches up from a 1/4 oz. sinker. I'm convinced that perch often swim up to the bait and just sit there with the bait in their mouth. I set the hook and start reeling fast at the slightest movement or bump. In so doing I often hook up when friends fishing next to me are missing the bite. Also bend your hook points out slightly and keep hooks so sharp that they stick when pulled on your thumb nail. I'm convinced that dull hooks account for more missed bites than anything else. a friend who fishes with me a lot uses spinner blades. I don't see where they help or hurt his success. I think a lot of it comes with experience.
I might try these new lines they are talking about.
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Gamma,
Thanks for the tip on the backing - it never occurred to me to do that. If you are $pending that kind of money on line it is a waste to not use backing. I have two fly rods that use backing but never did it on my spinning rods. I can spool up all three of my trout / perch rods with one spool of new line. ;D
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Gamma,
Thanks for the tip on the backing - it never occurred to me to do that. If you are $pending that kind of money on line it is a waste to not use backing. I have two fly rods that use backing but never did it on my spinning rods. I can spool up all three of my trout / perch rods with one spool of new line. ;D
ive seen him hit the other side of a river no one else could touch with the flick of his wrist , pole and line do wonders ;)
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Gamma,
Thanks for the tip on the backing - it never occurred to me to do that. If you are $pending that kind of money on line it is a waste to not use backing. I have two fly rods that use backing but never did it on my spinning rods. I can spool up all three of my trout / perch rods with one spool of new line. ;D
Gator.
Not only is the backing important as to not waste a hiogh dollar line but it also keeps your line anchored to the spool whereas if you tied Fireline or Nano-Fil directly to the spool, it would just spin as if your drag was loosened all the way.
One more great aspect of these super lines is that when they start to look a little ragged on the business end (even ragged looking, they're still stronger and better than any mono line) you can just spool them right onto a different reel from the one they're on and get another couple years out of them ! That's the beauty of these lines ! You get so much more for your money than mono, copolymers and flourocarbons !
I've been testing the lifespan of Fireline since it came out in late 1995. I use the 4 lb exclusively not matter what I fish for. I've had the same spool of line on one reel for over 4 years and it still performs the way it should ! It doesn't look pretty but it holds up just fine !
My ability to use 4 lb for all warm water species without issues is attributed to my choice of rods.
I use nothing under 9 ft and a few that are 13ft. They allow me to do things that are impossible with 5 to 8 ft rods and regular lines. It's a system I've been using since the late 80's long before the super lines hit the market. When they did come out in 1995, it turned a great system into a new generation and totally changed the way I fished. Haven't looked back since !
Most times, I can jig for walleyes, fish for deep water Seneca Lake perch, use a jig/float for panfish or fish for river catfish with the same rod, reel and 4lb test !
Oh...and did I mention trolling ? Same rig always ! ;D ;D
Let us know how you like the new line !
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Gamma,
I just ordered it so when I get it and use it some I will let you guys know how it works. From what you have said and what I have gathered on the net is sounds like it should work great. I'll practice that palomar knot and look in my steelhead stuff for my small swivels. Thanks again - Eric
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Gamma,
I just ordered it so when I get it and use it some I will let you guys know how it works. From what you have said and what I have gathered on the net is sounds like it should work great. I'll practice that palomar knot and look in my steelhead stuff for my small swivels. Thanks again - Eric
Where in CNY are you from ? If you want to get together some day, I can show you some of the rigs and rigging that I've been using. ;)
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in Cicero, show me, show me..........
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in Cicero, show me, show me..........
Anytime Bill ! ;) Just let me know when & where ! ;)
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You guys talked me into it; I have 4# NanoFL and Fireline on order to see if I like them better than my florocarbon. I've used Fireline before and I'm still a little iffy on it but always willing to try new applications. Now I gotta go back and reread the thread and see what you suggested for backing. Thanks for the topic and tips. 8)
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You'll be amazed at how much more distance you'll get with Nano-Fil or Fireline. Especially with smaller baits/lures.
One thing to remember though is that you need to fill your spools up with backing before you attatch the Nano-Fil. Also, you'll only need 30 to 40 yards of the new line on your reels (less if you're using short rods as your casting distance is cut down a bit with the 5 to 6 ft rods.
As far as the knots that Berkely shows, they're good but the Palomar knot is the strongest knot and works well with all of the super lines . Easy to tie also !
You're going to love the new line ;)
What do you like to back your superlines with Gamma? No point in my trying to re-invent the wheel here.
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What do you like to back your superlines with Gamma? No point in my trying to re-invent the wheel here.
You can just strip off a bunch of the line already on the reel and use a back to back uni knot to join the two. If there is no line on the reel, I just use cheap mono.
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Agreed whatever is on the reel now, it's only taking up space, so you don't need 600 yards of expensive line, and as mentioned before superlines don't grab the spool well.
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My only question about the new line is, how well will it work through the ice? Most superlines are useless below freezing.
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You guys talked me into it; I have 4# NanoFL and Fireline on order to see if I like them better than my florocarbon. I've used Fireline before and I'm still a little iffy on it but always willing to try new applications. Now I gotta go back and reread the thread and see what you suggested for backing. Thanks for the topic and tips. 8)
TD.
Over the years, I've found many people who tried Fireline only to say they weren't real happy with it but upon further investigation, most never took the time to learn its qualities and how to utilize them. Some just couldn't justify spending the extra money .
As mentioned originally, and talked about below, backing is important as a filler and an anchor to keep the Fireline from slipping on the spool.
A few other tips that will increase your fishing pleasure with Fireline are:
1. Drag. Keep it looser than you would when using any mono based lines. With zero stretch, you'll rip the hooks out of the fishes mouth or away from them before the hook is in their mouths. Strike detection time and feel is highly increased !
2. Longer, softer action rods. Not noodle rods but something that had a moderately slow action.
They help with the shock absorption do to the zero stretch and also, pick up slack line off the water much faster to increase your hook up ratio even more.
Guide sizes on the rod make no difference. I prefer the smallest diameter guides I can get but they'll all work fine !
Also, with the softer action rods, the fish won't feel the resistance as readily as they do with a stiffer action rod.
4 lb Fireline breaks at almost 9 lbs but is the diameter of 2 lb mono (or less) .. Using short whippy ultra light rods with Fireline really takes away from its ability to perform. It's definitely a specialty line ands with a little adjustment here and there, it can be used for most fishing applications.
3. The size of the spool on your reel ! The bigger the diameter, the better ! Reel technology is returning to old school with the major manufacturers designing many of their new spinning reels with huge spool diameters intended to be used with all super lines. The large diameter reels allow for much smoother casting and better retrieve ratios plus the total length of the reel is shorter and weights lighter. Long cast spools and reels are a thing of the past !
4. Fireline (and Nano-Fil) sink faster than mono based lines when a weight or lure is attached but Fireline will float if not weighted. This can work to your advantage as it makes a great strike indicator !
5. Strength. When using Fireline or Nano-Fil with baits or lures that are balanced to the pound test you're using, most snags can be pulled free by steady rearward pressure. (don't wrap these lines around your hand when doing this unless you want to bleed) . With light wire hooks, they'll straighten out and pull free. I've even felt my jig pull through rock snags when using these lines !
Bend the hook back and start fishing again !
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You'll like both lines once you get used to their properties and how they react on the water. I believe that the new Nano-Fil will be HUGE !
Just remember that there's hardly a fish in these parts that you can't land with 4 lb Fireline.
Some people believe that because of the smaller diameter, they can move way up in pound test and have a better chance at landing a big fish. In my experience with these lines, I've found that they're highly underrated pertaining to the break strengths. 4 lb Fireline breaks at roughly 9 lbs and 8 lb Fireline breaks at 15 to 18 lbs but the 8 lb fishes more like 12 lb test whereas the 4 lb fishes like 2 lb !
Let us know how you do with the new lines !
GF
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My only question about the new line is, how well will it work through the ice? Most superlines are useless below freezing.
Nano-Fil is not porous like Fireline or other super lines so it won't pick up water and freeze like they do. It's very slick and very smooth. It'll be a hit through the ice this winter.
One word of caution though............don't fall for all of the hype about "Special Ice Lines" or Specially Formulated for Ice Fishing" hype
It's been a bogus marketing tool that for years that has made the line company millions of dollars ::) ::) ::)
They reduce the spool size and amount of line on the spool and give it a different color and new packaging then sell it for double to triple the amount of the standard open water lines that they offer ! ;) ;)
Oh yeah....IF you decided to buy the Nano-Fil for ice fishing this winter, buy the 1 lb test for all panfish and perch applications. If you're going to rip Sonars, DON'T USE THESE LINES......or you'll only reel in chunks of fish meat or lips !
If you buy the NF line and don't like it, I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it ! Nothing to lose ! ;) ;)
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Before I left NY I always use a 1/4-3/8 ounce sinker, Some times 1/2 ounce. Tied two #6 gold arberdeen hooks 1 and 2 feet above the sinker and baited the hooks with worms when the water was warmer, minnows and spikes when it was colder.
This setup worked well for me.
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My only question about the new line is, how well will it work through the ice? Most superlines are useless below freezing.
I use 3lb fireline on all my ice jigging poles and i will never go back to mono in the winter time.I lost two jigs all of last year .The only draw back is that it can be difficult to retie the line is super slippery.
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My favorite light rod is now loaded with 4# Nano Fil. That stuff is like angle hair. I'll tie on a slider and put Nano to the test this week. 8)
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Just got the 4lb. Nanofil in the mail today. I haven't spooled up yet but practiced tying some knots. Holy crap is this stuff thin. I see what you guys are talking about with the backing. It really looks good ;D - I have to work a couple more shifts before I can test it. I will let you guys know this week how it goes - can't wait. -Eric
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Hi,
Likely this suggestion is too simple. However, as no one mentioned it. I used two piece rods for years, the first time I spent a lttle more $ for a good one piece rod I was surprised at how strikes?nimbles felts. Remember the first day with new rod, as I was pullin perch on one end of the boat, while my partner was pullin empty hooks most of the day.
This summer I have missed a great deal of fish on lake ontario due to not detecting the bite. I have improved slowly but am still missing a lot of strikes. I try and keep my line as tight as possible, and keep my left hand loosely on my line to improve my detection. I use 6lb mono and usually use a small jig weighted with the smallest sinker I can use depending on wind conditions on the bottom with the jig up top on a leader.
Do any of you seasoned perch (or panfish in general) anglers have any suggestions for a young angler? I fish almost exclusively for perch because I am a meat fisherman and to me nothing in the world tastes better. Specifically, any tips that will help me detect the bite more efficiently would be much appreciated.
Also I am wondering about in-line spinners for perch, any recomendations?
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Hi,
Likely this suggestion is too simple. However, as no one mentioned it. I used two piece rods for years, the first time I spent a little more $ for a good one piece rod I was surprised at how strikes?nimbles felts. Remember the first day with new rod, as I was pulling perch on one end of the boat, while my partner was pulling empty hooks most of the day.
I'm a firm believer in one piece rods. Almost all the rods I own are one piece. I also like the longer one piece rods, 7+ feet in length.
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i'm a line watcher i usually set the hook before i ever feel the hit anyways ,, golden strean or solar really helps me.....
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I use 4lb fireline ice in the winter. Great for perchin. Will try the new line this winter.
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I like the one piece rods also - unfortunately I lost my favorite one in a pond last week crappie fishing in my canoe. Had on a double and pulled in the first one and dropped it in the bucket still on the line and set down the pole. After reeling in the second crappie I turned around to find the first fish had come off the line in the bucket and in the process bounced my rod into the water :'(. Jigged with my heaviest lure for about ten minutes with no luck snagging it. I guess that is how it goes some days... at least I have a good excuse to buy a rod this time... ;D
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I'm a firm believer in one piece rods. Almost all the rods I own are one piece. I also like the longer one piece rods, 7+ feet in length.
Im a firm NON-believer in one piece rods. ;D
With modern blank technology, todays guides, and "superlines" I refuse to believe a one piece is more sensitive. We need to compair apples to apples though, ie - same blank. Something like St Croix's ScII blank, the 2S70MLF is a 7ft fast action blank offered in one or two piece design. A blindfolded human fishing one of each would have a 50/50 guess of which was which... 8)
Plus I hate storing one piece rods... ;D
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Im a firm NON-believer in one piece rods. ;D
With modern blank technology, todays guides, and "superlines" I refuse to believe a one piece is more sensitive. We need to compair apples to apples though, ie - same blank. Something like St Croix's ScII blank, the 2S70MLF is a 7ft fast action blank offered in one or two piece design. A blindfolded human fishing one of each would have a 50/50 guess of which was which... 8)
Plus I hate storing one piece rods... ;D
Thank You ! Totally agree ! Saved me some typing ! ;) ;)
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Im a firm NON-believer in one piece rods. ;D
With modern blank technology, todays guides, and "superlines" I refuse to believe a one piece is more sensitive. We need to compair apples to apples though, ie - same blank. Something like St Croix's ScII blank, the 2S70MLF is a 7ft fast action blank offered in one or two piece design. A blindfolded human fishing one of each would have a 50/50 guess of which was which... 8)
Plus I hate storing one piece rods... ;D
everything you said is correct but..... if i wanted a "cheap" sensitive rod i would go one piece .... like you say compair apples to apples not everone is going to go with a top quilty blank and guides nor use braided line ...remeber this is perch fishing and some people have budgets (unlike the federal government) ... i'm a line watcher myself but my one piece ultras are more sensitive then 2 piece
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I own both but prefer one piece rods because they don't:
1. Separate when casting - go ahead and have a laugh but I have seen just about everyone have this happen
2. Twist so the eyes don't line up
3. Get so stuck together that they will break when trying to be separated
I like the two piece rods for traveling but that is about it. The difference in sensitivity might be small but I don't see how a two piece can be as sensitive as a one piece. Just my opinion :) Eric
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Just trying to make someone stop and think before they buy a one piece because they think the "extra" sensitivity will catch them more fish... 8)
everything you said is correct but..... if i wanted a "cheap" sensitive rod i would go one piece .... like you say compair apples to apples not everone is going to go with a top quilty blank and guides nor use braided line ...remeber this is perch fishing and some people have budgets (unlike the federal government) ... i'm a line watcher myself but my one piece ultras are more sensitive then 2 piece
There a too many "cheap" options out there. One of my all time favorite jigging and stickbait rods is a Rapala "long cast" rod I picked up a few years ago at Bass Pro for $20 bucks. It is a 2 piece and when we fish eyes at night I close my eyes just because, plus with fireline it is that sensitive. ;D An awesome perch panfish rod that is reasonable is BP' Wally Marshall series - right around 45 bucks. Im not talking high end blanks...
I own both but prefer one piece rods because they don't:
1. Separate when casting - go ahead and have a laugh but I have seen just about everyone have this happen
2. Twist so the eyes don't line up
3. Get so stuck together that they will break when trying to be separated
I like the two piece rods for traveling but that is about it. The difference in sensitivity might be small but I don't see how a two piece can be as sensitive as a one piece. Just my opinion :) Eric
1. - It can happen but for the most part they were not put together right...
2. - not built right - if that is happening the builder did not build on the straightest axis or the spline...
3. - dosnt happen with modern furrels...
Just my opinion but a human cant detect the difference...
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Just trying to make someone stop and think before they buy a one piece because they think the "extra" sensitivity will catch them more fish... 8)
There a too many "cheap" options out there. One of my all time favorite jigging and stickbait rods is a Rapala "long cast" rod I picked up a few years ago at Bass Pro for $20 bucks. It is a 2 piece and when we fish eyes at night I close my eyes just because, plus with fireline it is that sensitive. ;D An awesome perch panfish rod that is reasonable is BP' Wally Marshall series - right around 45 bucks. Im not talking high end blanks...
1. - It can happen but for the most part they were not put together right...
2. - not built right - if that is happening the builder did not build on the straightest axis or the spline...
3. - dosnt happen with modern furrels...
Just my opinion but a human cant detect the difference...
Agree again here ! If you're fishing in the dark ages, you might have these issues but any mass produced rods in the 20 to 50 dollar range is good enough quality to not have issues with.
Most rod/reel issues come from people who don't use the proper size reels for the rods or line that's too heavy or too light for the rod. !
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To each his own - if I have an option where I can buy or use a one piece rod I will. It is possible that some of the issues I have had with two piece rods were self inflicted, but they just don't happen with a one piece. I just know I like using a one piece and that works for me. If it doesn't for you then go get yourself a two piece. The vehicles I drive don't require me to break down a rod and I have plenty of space to store them. I get out of my vehicle and pick up the rod and go, no putting it together, running the line through the eyelets and tying on a lure when I could be fishing. One piece rods make sense for me. :)
I tried out the Nanofil tonight. AMAZING. This stuff casts forever. I was throwing 1/32 oz jigs like they were 1/8 oz. When you make a cast you almost wonder if the lure is still attached because you feel zero drag from the line being pulled out. The stuff floats through air like a feather. I really had to be careful that I wasn't hitting boats that were next to the docks I was fishing. I tied on a fluoro leader so it was easy changing lures. I had zero line memory issues. You can still see the rings in the line when there is no tension on it but I had zero tangles or knots. Can't wait to throw spinners in the streams. Really good stuff. Thanks Gamma for recommending it and providing the tips for using it. :) -Eric
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. If you're going to rip Sonars, DON'T USE THESE LINES......or you'll only reel in chunks of fish meat or lips !
If you buy the NF line and don't like it, I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it ! Nothing to lose ! ;) ;)
What do you mean by rip sonars?
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What do you mean by rip sonars?
I was wondering the same thing ???
All good tips...the switch from mono to braid/fused will make the biggest difference in sensitivity and feeling the bite, I switched this year from mono to braid and the difference is night and day. Combine with a flouro leader when visibility is an issue and you'll be way ahead of the mono-users.
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Gamma, what weight rods are you talking about? 9ft rod light action? moderate? i take it you could land a big walleye? would you recommend this kind of set up for pike fishing?.....obviously a little heavier. I like the idea of going lighter and longer rod for pike. i use 30lb fireline on a 7 foot rod now. what lb fireline you think i could get away with and still land big pike? lots of good info gamma.
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What do you mean by rip sonars?
Well.......It's basically a rip and drop technique that many times, snags more fish than it catches in the mouth ! Ripped with such vigor and speed so as to create vibrations (which the bait was designed to do) that attracts walleyes and other species. As the bait falls back to the bottom or close to it, it's ripped aggressively again in hopes that some fish have been attracted to the area and will attempt to eat it. Every now and then, they will but many times, they try to eat it with their chins, bellies, fins etc ::) ::)
A Sonar doesn't have to move fast to create the vibrations that attract fish. They'll vibrate on a steady retrieve, jig or troll.
Walleyes don't move fast when they feed but man do they move when they have a couple treble hooks burried in them at 40 miles an hour ! :o :o :o ;D ;D
Just my opinion......I could be wrong ! :whistling: ;D ;)
Gamma, what weight rods are you talking about? 9ft rod light action? moderate? i take it you could land a big walleye? would you recommend this kind of set up for pike fishing?.....obviously a little heavier. I like the idea of going lighter and longer rod for pike. i use 30lb fireline on a 7 foot rod now. what lb fireline you think i could get away with and still land big pike? lots of good info gamma.
Pike.
The rods I use and have been using since the mid 80's are specialty rods designed for crappie fishing. They were made originally by Loomis for Cabelas and then by companies in Japan, Korea and Taiwan. Unfortunately, Cabelas stopped carrying them about 4 years ago so to find one these days, is like finding the holy grail but I'm hoping that Dark Cloud and his rod building expertise will be able to reproduce them in the near future ! :whistling: :whistling:
My main rods are 9 foot Cabelas CS 900 Crappie System rods. I also have them in 10, 11 & 12 foot models.
They were originally designed for tournament crappie fishermen in the Southern USA where trolling jigs and smaller baits is very popular and productive.
The rods have a micro tip of solid carbon graphite which makes up the last 20 to 24 inches of the rod. The rest of the rod is IM-6 Graphite and on a few models, IM-6 with Kevlar weave.
They have a super stiff backbone that tapers down to the tip that's no bigger than most micro ice rods. 2/64ths.........They are built with high frame "Match Guides" which taper down to single foot micro guides like you'd find on a high end Thorne Brothers ice rod. This makes the rod as light as most 5/15 to 6 ft ultra light rods...sometimes lighter ! With the stiff butt section, it allows you to muscle fish incredibly easy considering it's only rated for 2 to 8 lb line.
Most people when they hear that someone is using rods that are 9 to 12 feet, their first thought is that it's a noodle rod or a super slow action rod. These rods are just the opposite. Super fast tip action with a long, strong butt section ! They're hard to describe any better unless you have one in your hand !
Like I said, I fish primarily with the 9 foot models using 4 lb Fireline and have landed everything from bluegills to 38 pound carp ! (actually, the carp was landed on 6 lb Bagely Silver Thread long before Fireline hit the market !)
The micro tip detects strikes long before you'd ever see or feel them with a standard rod. There's no rearing back to set the hook ! Most times, when using Fireline, the fish hook themselves do to the lack of line stretch and the fact that they didn't feel any resistance from the rod tip. Most times, just lifting the rod tip a few inches is enough to bury the hook in their jaws !
If I'm targeting more aggressive fish, sometimes, I'll switch to 6 lb Fireline but that's a rarity !
Even the smallmouths on Oneida Lake get whooped quicky with this rod/line combo. You get much more control with the long rods !
One of the main benefits and reason why I really like this set up is that you can pick up slack line off the water so much faster ! If you're a line watcher and you're using a 6 to 7 foot rod, you need to drop the tip, reel in slack and set the hook. Sometimes, it's too late and the fish is gone. With the long rod, raise the tip and for the most part, the hook is set !
I've also found that after years of using this rig, I have far few fish that get hooked deeply in the throat. The reaction time and strike detection time is so much faster that the fish are nearly all hooked in the mouth !
Did I mention casting distance ? It's out of sight !
OK...on to your question as to if I'd recommend a set up like this for pike fishing. The answer is Yes & No ! Yes ! Some of the newer "Crappie Rods" made by several companies these days are rated for much heavier lines and double as great catfish or pike rods ! Dark Cloud mentioned "Walley Marshall" rods at Bass Pro. They make several rods that would be suitable for pike fishing even thought they're designated for crappies ! B&M, Pinnacle, Quantum, and other companies make similar rods with the small tip section and what they refer to as a "Fighting Butt" Unfortunately, we don't get too much to choose from up here in New York as Crappie fishing isn't seen or recognized as a way of life like it is in the Southland ! Not all is lost though as you can go on line and check some of the "Specialty" Crappie fishing sites or go to GrizzlyJig.com to see a huge catalog of these types of rods ! It's where I'll buy my replacements if Dark Cloud can't spin me up some new rods.
On the NO end, I wouldn't recommend using this type of set up when tossing extremely heavy baits ! But, many of the specialty crappie rods you'll find at Grizzly Jig come with 2 or 3 tip section which allow you to fish heavier baits and fish in heavy cover ! They also sell replacement tips for most of the rods they sell and they're very reasonable ! You'll definitely be able to use much lighter line (especially Fireline) and with that, get better action from your lures plus the ability to use lighter baits and cast them much further than if using mono.
It's one of those things that you have to try ! It's a system that you have to get adjusted to but the rewards are immense ! If you're ever in the Oneida Lake area and want to see my set ups, feel free to contact me and I'll meet up with you !
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if you cant catch a 1/2 lb perch on 6# test, learn how to fish!!!!!!!!! it aint the high price rod and super line, its the user!!!!!!!!
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if you cant catch a 1/2 lb perch on 6# test, learn how to fish!!!!!!!!! it aint the high price rod and super line, its the user!!!!!!!!
The rods I use are high end but not in cost ! They're only $39.95 to $59.95 each.
My question to you is....Why would you use 6 lb test for perch fishing ? ::) Maybe if you're a "meat Fisherman" using a bullhead rig with 2 ounces of sinkers and the fish are commiting suicide right under the boat or close to shore but .........A specialize rig with the proper line size and weight will allow you to do things you can't do with a rig like you've described.
Sounds like you've been to the "Trapper School of Fishing" ::) ::) ::)
There's a big difference between "Fishing" & "Catching" ! Being one dimensional doesn't benefit the former ;)
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I use 30lb powerpro for perch & eyes :P :P
For those of you asking, noodles are the way to go! My favorite rod is a Browning Six Rivers noodle. The pflug reels I use come with an extra spool, so I have a few interchangable spools. 1 @ 2lb, 1 @ 6lb, 1 @ 12lb, with this combo I catch anything! 12lb on this setup is my spinning combo of choice for Salmon & trout in the SR. I lost count how many 20-30lb fish in current I got last season. 6lb for deep water jigging for perch, eyes, & smallies, 2lb when targeting Perch & pans. I love the thing.
My 6'6's & 7's have their place, but if I had to pick one it wouldn't be one of them. Yup the noodle loads a bit different especially when using a line above what it's rated for, but it's not much of an adjustment.
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I use 30lb powerpro for perch & eyes :P :P
For those of you asking, noodles are the way to go! My favorite rod is a Browning Six Rivers noodle. The pflug reels I use come with an extra spool, so I have a few interchangable spools. 1 @ 2lb, 1 @ 6lb, 1 @ 12lb, with this combo I catch anything! 12lb on this setup is my spinning combo of choice for Salmon & trout in the SR. I lost count how many 20-30lb fish in current I got last season. 6lb for deep water jigging for perch, eyes, & smallies, 2lb when targeting Perch & pans. I love the thing.
My 6'6's & 7's have their place, but if I had to pick one it wouldn't be one of them. Yup the noodle loads a bit different especially when using a line above what it's rated for, but it's not much of an adjustment.
Oh boy.......I'm gonna have to take you fishing ! Once you lay your sawdust covered hands on the rods I use, your "Noodles" will be commisioned to be used as tomato stakes (just not on windy days) ;D ;D
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SONARS RIP!!!! ;D :thumbup_smilie:--KP
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SONARS RIP!!!! Just like a Walleyes belly with 2 sets of trebles buried in it ;D :thumbup_smilie:--KP
:whistling: :whistling: ;)
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:whistling: :whistling: ;)
CAN'T SAY THAT I EVER HOOKED 'EM IN THE BELLY....ALWAYS IN THE MOUTH!!! ;)--KP 8)
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CAN'T SAY THAT I EVER HOOKED 'EM IN THE BELLY....ALWAYS IN THE MOUTH ....Just like Salmon in October ::) ;D!!! ;)--KP 8)
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Hooking Salmon in the mouth in October is EASY!!!!! Even GAMMA could do it!! ;D--KP ;D
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Hooking Salmon in the mouth in October is EASY!!!!! Even GAMMA could do it!! ;D--KP ;D
YA RIGHT ??? ??? ??? ??? SALMON DONT EAT MAKIE PLASTICS ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D
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YA RIGHT ??? ??? ??? ??? SALMON DONT EAT MAKIE PLASTICS ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D
It's MAKI........Tough guy ! ;D ;D ;D
I'd bet if I drifted you on a hook in front of a salmon they wouldn't hit you either. Want to try it in a few weeks ? ;D ;D ;D
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Oh boy.......I'm gonna have to take you fishing ! Once you lay your sawdust covered hands on the rods I use, your "Noodles" will be commisioned to be used as tomato stakes (just not on windy days) ;D ;D
You have rods that actually work? I thought the ones you had were merely intended to help hold the headliner up. :whistling: :whistling:
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You have rods that actually work? I thought the ones you had were merely intended to help hold the headliner up. :whistling: :whistling:
Just the opposite ! They're pulling the headliner down ! ;)
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hey gamma thanks for the info.. If I'm out your way anytime soon ill drop you a line. and check out those rigs. Iwas out yesterday perch fishing, and saw some guys carp fishing with 13 foot specialized rods.. not noodle rods...maybe something similar to the ones you were using.
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I gotta tell ya, I've been fishing 4# NanoFil for panfish for about 3 weeks now. I LOVE THIS STUFF! Using a light 7 foot spinning rod I'm casting tiny jigs way, way farther than I've ever been able with any other line. Even in a breeze this line is out performing anything else. I have not hooked a trout, bass, or pickerel with it yet but I'm feeling confident that it will perform when that happens. This was a great tip. I'm going to rig up 2 or 3 more rods with it.
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I gotta tell ya, I've been fishing 4# NanoFil for panfish for about 3 weeks now. I LOVE THIS STUFF! Using a light 7 foot spinning rod I'm casting tiny jigs way, way farther than I've ever been able with any other line. Even in a breeze this line is out performing anything else. I have not hooked a trout, bass, or pickerel with it yet but I'm feeling confident that it will perform when that happens. This was a great tip. I'm going to rig up 2 or 3 more rods with it.
Yeah, I spooled some up this morning and am impressed with it. Long casting and sensitive. Like Fireline when it's broken in. Remains to be seen if it will saw weeds off or resist abrasions but it's looking good so far. Gonna spool some up on the long rod next.
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I just fished about 6 hours a day for 6 days with NanoFil. Love the stuff!
Used the 8#(only because the store didnt have 6), tied on a number 10 spro swivel, and fished a 2ft piece of 8# p-line florocarbon. Never had to retie the swivel to the Nano... and I may have caught a few fish. ::)
Also had it on another reel tied direct to a pop-R all week. The stuff shines for topwater as it floats. After pausing the bait I never had to worry about it pulling the bait under when I started working it again. It also cut the weeds nice when a fish headed for them...
It is slick so just be carefull with your knots. Only had one incident with a loop down in the reel starting to form one of those spinning reel messes. Just pulled the line off by hand and she came right out...
Real similar to Fireline, just a bit smoother and thinner. The stuff shedds water also, which should be nice for on the ice...
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I just fished about 6 hours a day for 6 days with NanoFil. Love the stuff!
Used the 8#(only because the store didnt have 6), tied on a number 10 spro swivel, and fished a 2ft piece of 8# p-line florocarbon. Never had to retie the swivel to the Nano... and I may have caught a few fish. ::)
Also had it on another reel tied direct to a pop-R all week. The stuff shines for topwater as it floats. After pausing the bait I never had to worry about it pulling the bait under when I started working it again. It also cut the weeds nice when a fish headed for them...
It is slick so just be carefull with your knots. Only had one incident with a loop down in the reel starting to form one of those spinning reel messes. Just pulled the line off by hand and she came right out...
Real similar to Fireline, just a bit smoother and thinner. The stuff shedds water also, which should be nice for on the ice...
Yeah but Golden Stren and Trilene Solar are better.... ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D
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Yeah, I spooled some up this morning and am impressed with it. Long casting and sensitive. Like Fireline when it's broken in. Remains to be seen if it will saw weeds off or resist abrasions but it's looking good so far. Gonna spool some up on the long rod next.
Your gonna love it. I know mine has been in a lot of contact with zebra mussels and weed. I have not had a bit of problem, nick or abrasion. I'm thinking this is gonna be great for ice fishing too. The Fish Whisperer loved it yesterday. He used my set up for an hour and put his seal of approval on it. ;D